Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

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Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

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Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Kurve]

M claims to have been taken to the “home” of Bevan Von Einem. In fact it was a flat not a house and in any event, when taken past it he failed to identify it. This, says the defence, is a false belief and is part of the obsession with the “Family murders”.

Err, what? First time I've heard BVE was living in a flat somewhere.


nb love how the gay dudes were rocking a blue Tozza. Totally boge.

Trying to shut up on this now but wasn't BVE it was suggested, renting a flat/shack with the hairdresser? Wotsishyphenatedname.

 

[Bits]

M claims to have been taken to the “home” of Bevan Von Einem. In fact it was a flat not a house and in any event, when taken past it he failed to identify it. This, says the defence, is a false belief and is part of the obsession with the “Family murders”.

Err, what? First time I've heard BVE was living in a flat somewhere.


nb love how the gay dudes were rocking a blue Tozza. Totally boge.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&ved=2ahUKEwiNqKKc3LXpAhWU4zgGHU0GAHI4ChC3AjAAegQIChAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWe2QHCLCq90&usg=AOvVaw1z3QY9dmVSkwUGtsFlkjIw

Don't know where this guy got the addresses from but he visits a block of units in Campbelltown where bve apparently lived with his mum. In Adelaide it is common to say either unit or flat to describe this kind of dwelling. Could just be a terminology issue.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Until I read your previous posts I would have said no, but now I have to wonder

I did think of a more high profile eastern suburbs elite announcer

The name that has always been (incorrectly - as in he's not in the Family) bandied about is Rick Marshall. Maybe it's not Rick Marshall and it's this dude.

I reckon if he was in the Family we'd have wind of it by now.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Trying to shut up on this now but wasn't BVE it was suggested, renting a flat/shack with the hairdresser? Wotsishyphenatedname.

Yes, but police never knew the location. In this excerpt it's as if the police knew about BVE's address (meaning it can't be the one with DSD)

 

[GreyCrow]

The name that has always been (incorrectly - as in he's not in the Family) bandied about is Rick Marshall. Maybe it's not Rick Marshall and it's this dude.

I reckon if he was in the Family we'd have wind of it by now.

no another name - but as noted by yourself there are a LOT of names bandied about - and it could be entirely incorrect

Ric Marshall and Phillip Cave were cohorts of other offences not related to Family

 

[PaulSubetro]

I'm watching Munich on TV and ducking in during the ads and posting so only skim reading and not really having time to think things through. Maybe I've missed something re the BVE flat. Will have to wait and see if I've overlooked anything.

 

[Bits]

I've never heard of it but my thoughts

1. The two men facing charges would have been 24 and 25 in 1979
2. The victim was 13-14 and using drugs. Possibly a street kid and involved around that seedy scene at the time
3. Apparently has mental issues
4. Is obsessed with the Family

Some things I've noticed about this case;

1. A lot of the street kids of the time think every child sex case is linked to the Family. That's just not the case. The Family weren't pedos (like Rick Marshall and others that continually get linked to the Family). The Family were a bunch of gay men who like young men (some under age, some not). Furthermore, these kids were prostituting themselves at the gay beats and going to parties at Derrance Stevenson's house to fund their addictions. Were they exploited? Yes. Did the SA Govt let them down? Yes. Did their clients commit criminal acts? Yes. But at the end of the day they have to take some responsibility - they willing sought out older men for sex in exchange for money.

The Family are bunch of loosely connected associates whose connection centred around BVE and his liking for drugging, raping and ultimately killing hitch hikers (or abductees in Kelvin's case).

This kid apparently knew Alan Barnes from school. And Alan was only 16 when he died. Also wasn't it suggested that Alan (and Darko) were hanging around bve's crew and Derrance's crew trading sex for drugs?

Other than Alan having a stable home there isn't a huge difference in age and
behaviour. Peter Stogneff and Richard Kelvin were schoolboys in their teens. There is a blurred line between "pedo" and "likes underage boys" when you have boys in their mid-teens.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Bloody Adelaide. Seriously the worst capital in Australia. I regretfully lived there for 7 years where I learnt about the degenerates discussed in this thread.

And what a legal system! Suppressing the names of adult suspects in one of the most heinous crimes in Australian history.

If nothing changes in light if Lewis Turtur's frank admissions in Frozen Lies, Adelaide will definitely retain it's title as most awesomely shitty backwater.

I like Adelaide. Great city. But very loose in the 70s. This stuff was happening everywhere, but in Adelaide it was on steroids.

Wards of the state being exposed to predators
A street kid and underage male prostitution problems
Multiple groups of predators (The Family, Derrance Steveson's crew, probably Pearce and Rozankowski (who lived 2 blocks from Derrance)) either exploiting or abducting/raping/killing young men.
Young drug addicts courting gay men to exchange sex for money

Out of control.

 

[GreyCrow]

I like Adelaide. Great city. But very loose in the 70s. This stuff was happening everywhere, but in Adelaide it was on steroids.

Wards of the state being exposed to predators
A street kid and underage male prostitution problems
Multiple groups of predators (The Family, Derrance Steveson's crew, probably Pearce and Rozankowski (who lived 2 blocks from Derrance)) either exploiting or abducting/raping/killing young men.
Young drug addicts courting gay men to exchange sex for money

Out of control.

While not connected do you think there was a ''loose'' word on the street at the availability of wards and young men at the time? And some just took it further than a quick release?

 

[PaulSubetro]

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&ved=2ahUKEwiNqKKc3LXpAhWU4zgGHU0GAHI4ChC3AjAAegQIChAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWe2QHCLCq90&usg=AOvVaw1z3QY9dmVSkwUGtsFlkjIw

Don't know where this guy got the addresses from but he visits a block of units in Campbelltown where bve apparently lived with his mum. In Adelaide it is common to say either unit or flat to describe this kind of dwelling. Could just be a terminology issue.

OK, explained. Thanks. That guy has the right places. The second one I would call a villa but if it's a flat in Adelaide then that's the place police must have driven past.

 

[PaulSubetro]

While not connected do you think there was a ''loose'' word on the street at the availability of wards and young men at the time? And some just took it further than a quick release?

Absolutely - but from both sides.

It's almost like it went around the gay community where and how you could exploit young men. Gambardella was trawling Trundle St Mall and pinball arcades etc.

On the other hand it went around all the street kids and drug users how they could earn cash. Muir woukd trawl the gay beats as did darko and barnes and szach and others.

 

[imho]

when BVE's name first hit the press, it was big news.
i was in hospital at the time, where the topic came up during an excited conversation with my friends (a young 'couple') who had come to visit during my confinement.
it went along the lines of (me saying) "have you seen the paper yet? they've got some guy for the murder of those boys!!"
my friend, freaking out, replied " i know, i know, and WE KNOW him - and his number's stored in our teledex AND he has sat on our BED!!!" before then continuing on to explain how it had come about. seems they were moving into a unit in the area of campbelltown/paradise where BVE was the friendly neighbour who had offered them assistance while maneuvering their bed into the bedroom of their new digs. once the bed was in situ, he sat on it for a breather, and at some stage also gave them his number.
they made no mention of him having lived with his mother.

at the time of the hospital conversation, my old friends had already moved from that unit.
i'd now love to be able to contact them to find out the exact address, but we lost touch over the years, and i have no idea of the whereabouts of either.


imho

 

[PaulSubetro]

This kid apparently knew Alan Barnes from school. And Alan was only 16 when he died. Also wasn't it suggested that Alan (and Darko) were hanging around bve's crew and Derrance's crew trading sex for drugs?

Other than Alan having a stable home there isn't a huge difference in age and
behaviour. Peter Stogneff and Richard Kelvin were schoolboys in their teens. There is a blurred line between "pedo" and "likes underage boys" when you have boys in their mid-teens.

I only skim read but it looks unlikely that this guy knew BVE. His testimony wasn't confident and he didn't recognise BVE's flat when he claimed he had been there.

Some guy testified (can't be bothered looking his name up) that he also knew Barnes from school (Salisbury area) and Barnes suggested to him that a way to fund heroin was to go with older gay men. This guy testified he was at a pub in the city with Barnes, and with BVE and Woodards and a guy called Mario (who I believe is Darko). That's pretty much the only evidence there is that Barnes knew BVE before he was picked up hitch hiking. We also think Barnes was the person who landed at Legal Aid the morning after Derrance died. We know Darko knew Derrance. Darko and Barnes were best mates and trawling the gay haunts of Adelaide. We know that Barnes had a pending rape charge on a female. We know Muir also frequented gay haunts.

We don't know if Muir, Barnes, Darko etc are/were gay. Were they gay guys hanging in the gay scene, or were they drug addicts hanging out where they could find men to pay them for sex to fund their addictions. We know Muir was a heroin addict but don't know if Barnes and Darko were dabblers or full blown addicts. Barnes was going home every Sunday night and attending school during the week so suspect he was clean during the week and getting on the H every weekend.

So we know there's a scene. Derrance and his crew host parties with young street kids. He supplies them with drugs or cash for drugs, they give sex in return. Gambardella scours known street kid locations because these young men/boys are way easier to exploit that kids from stable homes. It looks like Pearce and Rozankowski are doing the same - trawling pinball parlours and video arcades for kids who are not at school. And then there's Mr R and Brown who are picking up and drugging hitch hikers. And of course BVE who has close links to those two. On top of that there's a burgeoning male prostitution scene made up of mainly street kids operating out of Veale Gardens and the other gay beats.

Then on top of that again are pedos like Liddell and Marshall whose crimes have nothing to do with this "gay men exploited 14-20 year old youths" scene.

But can we say these are all related? Not really. The ex-street kids we see who are interviewed and claim they were raped by Mother Goose or some other gay dude who likes their boys young and boyish (but pubescent) and that it's all linked to the Family. There's no evidence of that.

And sure, there's a blurred line between ephebophillia (14-19), hebophillia (11-14) and pedophilla (up until 12) but it's faint. Most of BVE's crew were into ephebophillia. One time BVE brought home a kid who hadn't been through puberty. Mr B alleges he wasn't into it but BVE, while not his preference was ok with it. Marshall and Liddell (often connected to the Family) are out and out pedophiles. They're unlikely to be interested in Neil Muir.

There's some cross over but when I hear people link every child sex case to the Family, I'm like "yeah, nah, it's not like that". There was wide scale exploitation of street kids and wards of the state. There were kids (14-19) prostituting themselves for drug money (either directly at Veale Gardens or through hanging out at gay haunts to be picked up or by hanging with gay men to get access to money and drugs). But there's no links to that and the Marashalls/Liddells, and there's no direct link from a street kid slinging his ass at Veale Gardens to the Family.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Dario Kastellan (formerly Darko) can fill in a lot of gaps here.

How hard is it for a TV network to approach him and say, "now is time, here's $100k, fill in some gaps for us".

What was your relationship with Barnes? Were you guys an item? What was your reason for frequenting the gay haunts? Two young gay guys acting normally, or were you straight and hanging in circle that made it easier to obtain drugs? Or a bit of both?

Can you confirm you knew Gamba and Derrence? How often did Barnes go there? Do you think it was Alan who turned up at Legal the day after Derrence died?

Did you know BVE? Did Barnes know BVE? If so, how well?

Who else did you know or meet in that group?

Do you know if BVE and Derrence knew each other?

What do you think happened to Barnes?

What happened to you after that? Where did you go? Did you spiral into addiction? Go lead a quiet life? What happened?


He's the one guy who is not involved (with the Family) and has no reason to be misleading (except maybe around the Derrance murder). The tendency for the street kids and this complainant "M" is, because they've been let down so poorly by the system, and because people in suits from either legal or bureaucracy have been playing keepings off with the truth, they think everything is connected in one huge conspiracy. Darko is maybe removed from that.

And what about Mr B (if he's still alive)? There's a good chance this guy isn't rolling in a super fund. He lies a lot but he also talks. Throw him some cash and get him in front of the camera. Tell him you'll throw in an antique clock as well and even let him go down the store and choose it.

 

[Bits]

Didn’t Debi Marshall say something about Barnes having a job servicing vending machines including at bve’s workplace? The inference being that bve may have initially become known to him there? it wouldn’t be a huge leap from casual acquaintance to discussing weekend activities, or offering drugs, or an invitation to meet at a pub for a drink. Throw Miss Russell, a work colleague and therefore who may also have had contact with Barnes, and who was possibly a “beard” for bve, into the equation too.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Didn’t Debi Marshall say something about Barnes having a job servicing vending machines including at bve’s workplace? The inference being that bve may have initially become known to him there? it wouldn’t be a huge leap from casual acquaintance to discussing weekend activities, or offering drugs, or an invitation to meet at a pub for a drink. Throw Miss Russell, a work colleague and therefore who may also have had contact with Barnes, and who was possibly a “beard” for bve, into the equation too.

Yep, but we don't know how accurate her info is. She was implying strongly that there were links between Derrance and BVE when her evidence suggested no such connection. So it seems there's a bit of "i really want this link to be there to better engage the audience (i.e. sell units) so I'm going to strongly imply it's either there or likely there" going on.

Also consider Barnes, as far as we know was going home to Salisbury every weekend and probably going to school during the week. We also know witnesses say BVE would eye up delivery workers if they were young and hot. Maybe Marshall has made a leap of faith here?

On top of that, she interviewed Barnes' sister. Surely she clarified with her whether Barnes worked as a vendor machine re-stocker?

My jury is out on this but lead towards misinformation. Miss Russell is another who could be interviewed for clarification.

 

[charlie20]

could anything be made, in terms of a pattern, from barnes stogneff langley and kelvin all being teens, and all found buried/dumped above ground, and muir, who was mid 20s, and he was found in a bag in the port river, could this suggest a different person, or combination of persons, handled these disposals in a different manner, and why

 

[Bits]

Yep, but we don't know how accurate her info is. She was implying strongly that there were links between Derrance and BVE when her evidence suggested no such connection. So it seems there's a bit of "i really want this link to be there to better engage the audience (i.e. sell units) so I'm going to strongly imply it's either there or likely there" going on.

Also consider Barnes, as far as we know was going home to Salisbury every weekend and probably going to school during the week. We also know witnesses say BVE would eye up delivery workers if they were young and hot. Maybe Marshall has made a leap of faith here?

On top of that, she interviewed Barnes' sister. Surely she clarified with her whether Barnes worked as a vendor machine re-stocker?

My jury is out on this but lead towards misinformation. Miss Russell is another who could be interviewed for clarification.

Agree that Debi Marshall’s logic didn’t always make sense. Putting Storen in the picture and tying Derrance and bve together was dodgy. Hopefully she had reasons and will explain all in her book, or maybe she did just massage the facts to fit her theories.

Adelaide is one of those places where it’s more like two degrees of separation, not six degrees. The gay community would be a small subset, and the gay community who preyed on street kids/young boys/ hitchhikers even smaller. It wouldn’t be surprising to find links between the various characters. Doesn’t mean they were all involved in the Family murders though.

As for Barnes being a vending machine re-stocker, it’s an oddly specific bit of info to make up. I assume a grain of truth at least. I can’t recall her saying where that info came from though so who knows.

If Barnes was (possibly) familiar with bve through work, that would make it more likely that he would jump in a car with him and ask for a lift home - as per Mr B‘s testimony that Barnes was hitchhiking in the northern parklands, hopped into the car and asked for a lift to Salisbury and then agreed to go to a party with them.

 

[Bits]

could anything be made, in terms of a pattern, from barnes stogneff langley and kelvin all being teens, and all found buried/dumped above ground, and muir, who was mid 20s, and he was found in a bag in the port river, could this suggest a different person, or combination of persons, handled these disposals in a different manner, and why

Maybe. They did put Dr Peter Millhouse on trial for that but he was found not guilty.

I always thought Stogneff was a bit of an outlier personally. Younger teen, vanished on a weekday in daylight (was wagging from school). The link, I believe, was made because his skeleton showed that he has been cut up in the same way as Muir was. With no soft tissue left there was no way to show the same sort of physical abuse. Langley, Barnes and Kelvin had clear links - went missing in similar areas, similar injuries etc.

But until someone releases all the evidence we’ll never know.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Maybe. They did put Dr Peter Millhouse on trial for that but he was found not guilty.

I always thought Stogneff was a bit of an outlier personally. Younger teen, vanished on a weekday in daylight (was wagging from school). The link, I believe, was made because his skeleton showed that he has been cut up in the same way as Muir was. With no soft tissue left there was no way to show the same sort of physical abuse. Langley, Barnes and Kelvin had clear links - went missing in similar areas, similar injuries etc.

But until someone releases all the evidence we’ll never know.

I think the cuts make it likely Stogneff was done by The Family.

Millhouse fit. Muir was last seen with him and he was a doctor who would have some sort of knowledge in medical incisions. But the lack of blood and other details showed that it was highly unlikely to be him.

Anyone notice Wiki? It has Millhouse down as Suspect 2. We all know suspect 2 is DR STEPHEN GEORGE WOODARDS. He has been named a number of times on wiki as Suspect 2 but someone keeps going and changing it. No doubt the person changing it is Dr STEPHEN GEORGE WOODARDS.

Just throwing in some key words for when people search for DR STEPHEN GEORGE WOODARDS.

 

[seiko86]

Hi all,

A really interesting thread that I have been reading from afar for a long time, lots of accurate information. Some of it a little batshit crazy thoug

On the subject of accurate information, just came on here to confirm that Barnes did indeed fill the Coke vending machine at BVE’s former workplace on South Road, Regency Park. BVE was also in charge of looking after the vending machine and would arrange the refills of the machine and picking up of the empty bottles.

Easy for a random person on an internet forum to make up I know, but this is true.

Keep up the good posts

 

[Bits]

Hi all,

A really interesting thread that I have been reading from afar for a long time, lots of accurate information. Some of it a little batshit crazy thoug

On the subject of accurate information, just came on here to confirm that Barnes did indeed fill the Coke vending machine at BVE’s former workplace on South Road, Regency Park. BVE was also in charge of looking after the vending machine and would arrange the refills of the machine and picking up of the empty bottles.

Easy for a random person on an internet forum to make up I know, but this is true.

Keep up the good posts

Thanks for your info! Can you add anything else? Is there anything you know that hasn’t been covered here or can you confirm/reject any of our speculation? A new voice is always welcome to shake things up or offer a new perspective.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Hi all,

A really interesting thread that I have been reading from afar for a long time, lots of accurate information. Some of it a little batshit crazy thoug

On the subject of accurate information, just came on here to confirm that Barnes did indeed fill the Coke vending machine at BVE’s former workplace on South Road, Regency Park. BVE was also in charge of looking after the vending machine and would arrange the refills of the machine and picking up of the empty bottles.

Easy for a random person on an internet forum to make up I know, but this is true.

Keep up the good posts

ok, so Barnes has left school and was working as a vending machine restocker. He's got cash coming in. Was he getting other cash from the Derrance and other gay men?

 

[Kurve]

Looking for something else, I stumbled on a reference to Derrance in the Kindle edition of Red Tape Rape by a victim of Ric Marshall beginning when he was selected for abuse as a Ward of State at 12yo / 13yo. This was likely heard as testimony at the Mullighan Inquiry?

'Many nights they (Marshall and partner) would play home-made porno movies to arouse themselves. The amateur movies were man/child sex. They told me that some of them were from Derrance Stevenson.'

Loc 955 of 2202

 

[Bits]

There were so many different groups preying on boys in Adelaide back then. This is the story of Andy MacQueen. It is heartbreaking.

The Life and Death of Andy MacQueen - InDaily

"I was the happiest kid in the world, and then I wasn't" - The death of a celebrated Adelaide musician last year has revealed the cascading tragedy caused by one of the state’s most notorious pedophiles. In part one of our special report, Andy MacQueen’s family tell the heartbreaking story of...

indaily.com.au

“It’s a horrible way to live”: Andy MacQueen’s struggle for survival - InDaily

The death of Adelaide musician Andy MacQueen has shone a spotlight on the corrosive impact of child sexual abuse. In part two of our special report, we explain how cover-ups protected his abuser, and the damage inflicted on Andy and his family.

indaily.com.au