Unsolved The Family Murders

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HK_Hawk said:
Thanks Wendy, I'm also enjoying the read and it has given me a whole new depth of understanding and thought around the topic. I just had a question around the identity of "A" in the Peter Stogneff chapter. Is that one of the three Mrs Stogneff younger brothers?
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Glad you are finding it insightful. We have changed names and used single letters where required to protect the identity of certain people for good reason, we don't want to end up in a defamation case nor do we want to squash the chances of any future prosecutions, so I shall respectfully decline to answer questions relating to identity.
 
Bits said:
GypsyDreams Hi Wendy, I do hope you come back to this thread. If you do, would you be open to answering questions? I know I have a couple and I’m sure others will too. Thanks :) Hi yes, I'm a bit time poor but i'll come on when i can. I can't answer questions that relate to identify of anyone whom we've tried not to identify.
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GypsyDreams said:
Glad you are finding it insightful. We have changed names and used single letters where required to protect the identity of certain people for good reason, we don't want to end up in a defamation case nor do we want to squash the chances of any future prosecutions, so I shall respectfully decline to answer questions relating to identity.
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Yes, of course. Naive of me. Thanks for the response
 
GypsyDreams thank you. No questions about identity I promise.

I was wondering where you and Greg found a lot of your info. Was it court transcripts that aren’t available online? Interviews with people who were around that scene at the time? I know your previous roles would have given you access to all sorts of people.

Also, are you aware of any photos from back in the day? For example Pru, Sarah N who were thought to be luring boys into BvE’s car. I can’t help thinking that more victims might come forward if their memories were assisted by photos of the suspected participants as they looked back then.

And Dario (formerly Darko) Kastelan intrigues me. He is always mentioned as being involved - friend of Alan Barnes, procurer for Gambardella, present at Stevenson’s house, frequents the gay bars. But so little is known about him. Is there info that for some reason can’t be published, or is he just someone who has flown under the radar?

Sorry, trying not to bombard you with questions!
 
Bits said:
Has anyone else read the book?

I know Kurve has and we would love to discuss it further here. HK_Hawk has also read it I think.

I know that some of the info in the book is true because I’ve verified it through other sources (eg Pru Firman’s original name) but there is still a lot of new info that needs to be analysed/verified.

One example - the book says that BvE and Derrance were lovers. Has anyone heard this before?
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I'm still digesting the info, Bits. I also needed to have a quick re-read of this thread to try and orientate myself again after having been away from this for quite awhile.

The stuff that's got me thinking most is the connection of Millhouse to Muir, and what possible connections he may have had with Muir's murder and with The Family, if any. I must say, the read had me thinking there must be some connection, though if there was, it's highly unlikely he had any further part beyond that single murder.
 
HK_Hawk said:
The stuff that's got me thinking most is the connection of Millhouse to Muir, and what possible connections he may have had with Muir's murder and with The Family, if any. I must say, the read had me thinking there must be some connection, though if there was, it's highly unlikely he had any further part beyond that single murder.
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This has me a bit baffled as well. Stogneff appears to have been handled in very much the same way as Muir leading me to think the same killer/s
were responsible. However, I just can't see Millhouse's involvement in Stogneff's murder particularly after he was charged and very lucky not to have been convicted for Muir's murder.
 
I ordered the book today and have just started reading it tonight, looking forward to the parts on the Richard Kelvin case along with any links between Barnes/Kastelan/Stevenson/Gambardella and The Family.
 
Bits said:
And Dario (formerly Darko) Kastelan intrigues me. He is always mentioned as being involved - friend of Alan Barnes, procurer for Gambardella, present at Stevenson’s house, frequents the gay bars. But so little is known about him. Is there info that for some reason can’t be published, or is he just someone who has flown under the radar?
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He baffles me too. I think this guy is the key to everything in this case. I have so many questions about him.
The first of which is how he knew Barnes to begin with, and how long for. I would assume Kastelan was at least slightly older than Barnes as he was already well established working for Gambardella prior to this.
What kind of friends exactly were they?
Did the police find it odd that when they took a statement from him, (which is still being referred to over 40 years later as one of the last sightings of Barnes) that he was the one and only employee of Gino Gambardella, a man they were also investigating and actually charged as an accessory to a murder?

Anyone here know their legitimate connection? I could only assume Barnes was groomed by Gambardella and Kastelan, got introduced to Stevenson, got into the H, got into trouble with law. Somewhere along the line he gets a job and meets BVE... I mean the kid was 16 (Turned 17 in the week he was missing), he couldn't have been involved in this circle for too long?

I've noticed Crime Stoppers makes no mention of Barnes being last seen hitchhiking on Sun 17th June, and if memory serves, it used to reference that. They seem to now be persuing the theory that he was last seen the day before (I assume this was the Elizabeth Shopping Centre siting, but correct me if I'm wrong?)

crimestopperssa.com.au

Alan Arthur Barnes - Crime Stoppers South Australia

Rewards up to $1,000,000 will be paid by the Government of South Australia, at the discretion of the Commissioner of Police, to anyone who provides information and assistance that leads to the conviction of the person or persons responsible for the suspected murder of Alan Arthur Barnes. REWARD...
crimestopperssa.com.au crimestopperssa.com.au

Which 2 men are suspects? Could be any number of combinations of people. Could be Gambardella and Kastelan as easily as it could be BVE and Mr. B or Mr. R...

Lastly, I found some pretty credible info that Barnes had visited some family in the 2 weeks prior to his death and was distressed. I am trying to relocate this info, but this fits with the theory that he was the kid at Legal Aid and as that info emerged, people started looking for him and he had to hide.

Sadly, Barnes went from being a kid who got randomly taken from Grand Junction Rd to more likely a kid who was in a lot of trouble and was murdered for knowing too much.
 
HK_Hawk said:
The stuff that's got me thinking most is the connection of Millhouse to Muir, and what possible connections he may have had with Muir's murder and with The Family, if any. I must say, the read had me thinking there must be some connection, though if there was, it's highly unlikely he had any further part beyond that single murder.
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I feel the same way about Millhouse.
The more I read/learn about these crimes from different sources, the less I see in common with some of them. I'm fairly certain lately that Barnes and Muir were both releated murders due to how close they occurred to each other, and I think they were more likely committed by people they knew from the junk scene and both were a follow-on or a clean-up from the Stevenson murder.
Stogneff is a pure mystery. Not much to go on at all.
Langley and Barnes were both very similar in terms of location of abduction and opportunity. Neither were known to their assailant and if BVE did one, he definitely did the other.
 
Kurve said:
This has me a bit baffled as well. Stogneff appears to have been handled in very much the same way as Muir leading me to think the same killer/s
were responsible. However, I just can't see Millhouse's involvement in Stogneff's murder particularly after he was charged and very lucky not to have been convicted for Muir's murder.
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dismemberment?
 
Power Ballad said:
Langley and Barnes were both very similar in terms of location of abduction and opportunity. Neither were known to their assailant and if BVE did one, he definitely did the other.
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If BvE was involved then Barnes most certainly knew his assailant. He was seen several times in BvE’s group at various pubs, and he knew him through delivering to his workplace. Langley was in the prime hunting ground and likely an opportunistic snatch as was Kelvin.

Stogneff is the outlier for me. Different age/appearance, not taken from around the river/inner city. Allegedly seen at TTP (Tea Tree Plaza shopping mall) in the outer North Eastern suburbs. I guess he might have travelled into the city and been snatched.

The main link for Stogneff though is the dismemberment, and by the time he vanished, the Millhouse trial had run its course and details of Muir’s unfortunate fate were very public. Millhouse was lucky to get through that trial, so, as pointed out by others, it’s unlikely he would have risked it again only a year later. (The timeline is 1979 Muir murdered, 1980 Millhouse trial. 1981 Stogneff disappears.) Possibly some of the same crew were involved and copied the dismemberment.

In my head, Stogneff connects with Muir, Muir connects with Barnes/Langley/Kelvin through the anal injuries, but without more evidence because of the condition of Stogneff’s body, he doesn’t connect with the other three.
 

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Hi GypsyDreams thanks for being available.

With reference to the tip off police received about BVE and his associate 'the butcher' from Grange, where they were informed on by Ken B for violence against males they picked up at beats:

I'll assume the butcher's identity is under suppression and that he's still alive so I won't probe on that but are you aware if the police examined the butcher shop and hotels he worked in looking for evidence the bodies of Muir and Stogneff may have been processed there?

Was the butcher a cross dresser, post op trans or somewhere in between? Last one, was there any question raised as to which doctor 'the girls', both post and pre op were supervised by and acquiring their hormones from?

TIA.
 
Does anyone have a copy of the court transcript/decision in the BvE trial for Richard Kelvin? It would be from 1984. AUSTLII only has the 1985 appeal decision. I would be grateful for a copy please.
 
Kurve said:
Hi GypsyDreams thanks for being available.

With reference to the tip off police received about BVE and his associate 'the butcher' from Grange, where they were informed on by Ken B for violence against males they picked up at beats:
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Wait, what? "The Butcher"? I think I gotta pick up a copy of this book... a brand new character and he's from the the Western suburbs... BVE certainly had accomplices all over Adelaide, and in numerous fields and class-structures...
And a Butcher... that makes more sense than a doctor.
 
Power Ballad said:
Wait, what? "The Butcher"? I think I gotta pick up a copy of this book... a brand new character and he's from the the Western suburbs... BVE certainly had accomplices all over Adelaide, and in numerous fields and class-structures...
And a Butcher... that makes more sense than a doctor.
Click to expand...

There is so much info in there that I’m still finding new stuff on my third reading, and have many questions.

I’m reasonably familiar with most of the info that has been made public, and most of the people who have been discussed, but there are many new names in here.

For example, the name Noel Brooks is familiar, but the book refers to him as an aboriginal drag queen known as Di Di. Never seen that name before. I’ve heard one of the people at the Alberton house referred to as “half-Maori”. Is this Di Di?

There is reference to a transwoman called Kerry. Is this the mysterious Miss K who has been mentioned before?
 
Bits said:
There is so much info in there that I’m still finding new stuff on my third reading, and have many questions.

I’m reasonably familiar with most of the info that has been made public, and most of the people who have been discussed, but there are many new names in here.

For example, the name Noel Brooks is familiar, but the book refers to him as an aboriginal drag queen known as Di Di. Never seen that name before. I’ve heard one of the people at the Alberton house referred to as “half-Maori”. Is this Di Di?

There is reference to a transwoman called Kerry. Is this the mysterious Miss K who has been mentioned before?
Click to expand...
Yeah wow! I think these exact questions have been asked here earlier in this thread, buying this and reading it immediately!
 
...and wow, I'm up to chapter 3 and I'm getting exact answers I was looking for. Thanks GypsyDreams, great book so far!
 
Just finished Chapter 2 tonight, the similarities between the attempted abduction of Bradley and what happened 12 years later with Richard Kelvin are chilling. Bradley was the same age, height and had the same hair colour as Richard and a Ford Falcon with a "noisy" exhaust was prowling the streets of North Adelaide with a tall, dark haired man with a Germanic appearance driving it with beers inside.

I never knew before that BVE was out and about on the hunt for boys as far back as 1971.
 
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acerdude said:
Just finished Chapter 3 tonight, the similarities between the attempted abduction of Bradley and what happened 12 years later with Richard Kelvin are chilling. Bradley was the same age, height and had the same hair colour as Richard and a Ford Falcon with a "noisy" exhaust was prowling the streets of North Adelaide with a tall, dark haired man with a Germanic appearance driving it with beers inside.

I never knew before that BVE was out and about on the hunt for boys as far back as 1971.
Click to expand...

BvE had to start somewhere. it would be unlikely that the murders were the start of his crimes. Rather they were where he ended up after years of offending. Classic escalation I reckon.
 
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