Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

The Who's Who List

• #2,647

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[PoppedCorn]

ill sit back and watch the storm cometh

 

[bth18]

“This book takes aim at some big targets from government, public service and the judiciary and will for the first time reveal details provided by confidential sources.”

- says it all

 

[squawk]

A number of locations have been identified as being used by various people at various times. However, many of the locations do not come with a street number. Very early on there was a mention of someone (Trevor Peters?) saying that there was a place he was driven past with a number 6 in the address that was used as a covert location for the perpetrators. Do any of the various locations identified as being used by the TGs and others have a number 6? (There was even a picture of a door very early on in this thread).

 

[squawk]

Of the ‘Family’ those that are still alive include BVE, R, B, SGW, MGL, DS, LT and Clocker (CW). Those that are dead include RDB, DSD, PF, SN, NB and BG. (I don’t know about Peejay, Jackie, Megan or Kerry and if they are dead or alive). Then there is also DK and Gambardella (both alive I think?). Now we know that B and LT testified against BE, and we can assume they got immunity benefits for any and all crimes except murder. B is still under a suppression order (as is R). What I don’t get is that if R is a primary player, why would he be subject to any sort of ‘protection’ if that had already been given to B? B’s testimony was supposed to be the magic bullet and R has never testified – only made the odd brief statement. My guess is that no one is talking because the degree of ‘joint enterprise’ is so great that no one can’t start talking without either dropping themselves in it, OR, finding that dobbing someone else in means that person returns the same favour and everyone goes down. So who are the realistic prospects that could be persuaded to ‘roll’? Not B and not LT is they have immunity deals already. R + MGL is unlikely; and SJW is also unlikely. So that only leaves those in the outer circle, so to speak – DS, Clocker, and if any are still alive – DK, Gambardella (who if overseas is unlikely), Peejay, Jackie, Megan, Kerry…..?

 

[squawk]

Charlie - I’m interested if can find a few things out (if you don’t know already). Sorry for a bunch of Questions all at once....!

1. how many immunity deals were offered? How many were accepted and rejected? And of those that were accepted (eg B and LT), are these deals for life or can they be withdrawn or expire?

2. if two people are in ‘witness protection’ – why? Usually this is because of a genuine threat. These players have all bit their tongues for 40 years and are in their sixties and seventies. Where/who can there be a threat from? And if they are in witness protection because they are going to be witnesses – what are we waiting for? These two witnesses must be from within the broad circle.

3. there has been much talk about photos/films of the boys. Polaroids, snuff movie theories etc. Have any of these ever been recovered (or not)? If not, why not? One would assume a few people had them or had access to them. I know they could have been destroyed but what are the chances that a group of people were all able to keep a tight rein on all the photos and film they may have made, and shared, etc?

4. if Police suspect that other murders were also committed – is that suspicion just that, or do they believe that specific missing persons are potentially victims of BVE and the Family group?


5. do Police have any view about NM being associated with the deaths of any of the other 4 boys?

 

[GreyCrow]

Of the ‘Family’ those that are still alive include BVE, R, B, SGW, MGL, DS, LT and Clocker (CW). Those that are dead include RDB, DSD, PF, SN, NB and BG. (I don’t know about Peejay, Jackie, Megan or Kerry and if they are dead or alive). Then there is also DK and Gambardella (both alive I think?). Now we know that B and LT testified against BE, and we can assume they got immunity benefits for any and all crimes except murder. B is still under a suppression order (as is R). What I don’t get is that if R is a primary player, why would he be subject to any sort of ‘protection’ if that had already been given to B? B’s testimony was supposed to be the magic bullet and R has never testified – only made the odd brief statement. My guess is that no one is talking because the degree of ‘joint enterprise’ is so great that no one can’t start talking without either dropping themselves in it, OR, finding that dobbing someone else in means that person returns the same favour and everyone goes down. So who are the realistic prospects that could be persuaded to ‘roll’? Not B and not LT is they have immunity deals already. R + MGL is unlikely; and SJW is also unlikely. So that only leaves those in the outer circle, so to speak – DS, Clocker, and if any are still alive – DK, Gambardella (who if overseas is unlikely), Peejay, Jackie, Megan, Kerry…..?

I do agree that the immunity only works if everybody stays quiet - which is an odd spot to be handing out immunity

Unfortunately the pressure should have been applied to those now dead

 

[DropBearess]

So just for discussion and to change direction for a bit here.....

Does anyone else think too much credibility has been placed over the years re alleged "medical knowledge" apparently needed to dismember victims? We've read evidence "up to 4 hours to accomplish". "Extensive medical training required". "Large wet areas to accommodate the mess" etc..

Hmmmm. I'm not sure about all this and l think it may have clouded investigations and sent people in the wrong directions over the years.

Just to put it out there; I've been involved in allied emergency healthcare response over many years without being specific. I have no medical qualifications whatsoever but l have an excellent knowledge of anatomy. If it weren't for my aversion to blood 'n guts, l reckon l could dismember a person quite efficiently given the right equipment and less time. Why would doctors need to be involved? Anyone who has experience in an abattoir could do it, or a butcher, or a lay person like me.

I think too much importance was placed on NM's remains in the scheme of things. I actually think he was a medical experiment for people who wanted to learn things in a sick way. The whole thing reeks of people on a terrible trip due to mixed substances, who were very pissed off with him and tried all sorts of things; sex change scenarios included.

I'm also not entirely convinced that Peter Stogneff was killed by the same people, although l feel it is most likely. So his "cuts were the same", according to now discredited pathologists. Maybe his killer(s) were unrelated to the rest?

Thoughts????

 

[JezMez]

So just for discussion and to change direction for a bit here.....

Does anyone else think too much credibility has been placed over the years re alleged "medical knowledge" apparently needed to dismember victims? We've read evidence "up to 4 hours to accomplish". "Extensive medical training required". "Large wet areas to accommodate the mess" etc..

Hmmmm. I'm not sure about all this and l think it may have clouded investigations and sent people in the wrong directions over the years.

Just to put it out there; I've been involved in allied emergency healthcare response over many years without being specific. I have no medical qualifications whatsoever but l have an excellent knowledge of anatomy. If it weren't for my aversion to blood 'n guts, l reckon l could dismember a person quite efficiently given the right equipment and less time. Why would doctors need to be involved? Anyone who has experience in an abattoir could do it, or a butcher, or a lay person like me.

I think too much importance was placed on NM's remains in the scheme of things. I actually think he was a medical experiment for people who wanted to learn things in a sick way. The whole thing reeks of people on a terrible trip due to mixed substances, who were very pissed off with him and tried all sorts of things; sex change scenarios included.

I'm also not entirely convinced that Peter Stogneff was killed by the same people, although l feel it is most likely. So his "cuts were the same", according to now discredited pathologists. Maybe his killer(s) were unrelated to the rest?

Thoughts????

I also strongly lean towards them being over played. Dr Britten-Jones said expert for 4 hours, average surgeon 10-12 hours. There were up to 14 hours between Muir last being seen and being dumped. Realistically, it was probably something around 10 hours.

I'm pretty confident Millhouse wasn't involved in the surgery. We know BVE's social circle. There's only one doctor. Coincidentally, he's the same doctor that police have public (all but) named as one of the 3 main suspects along with Mr R and Mr B.

I'd love someone to go over the case again and give us a second opinion as to the surgery skills required.

A couple of things hard to escape from - I doubt ty cut Lang's bowel out with a carving knife or Bowie knife. They had to have had some equipment. Same with the table - the ebook says if the used a wooden table then there would have been transfer onto Muir's body. Some of the other boys were washed. I wonder if this removed any trace of a porous surface?

 

[bth18]

Peter Stogneff plays on my mind too - everything is different (aside from gender, era it occurred, and similarity to NM’s cuts) pity his remains were so damaged

 

[GreyCrow]

Peter Stogneff plays on my mind too - everything is different (aside from gender, era it occurred, and similarity to NM’s cuts) pity his remains were so damaged

Doesn't the presence of a dark skinned person intimate Brooks?

Or is that more projecting

 

[JezMez]

We can almost be certain he ended up with BVE.
Last seen with someone who matched Brook's appearance.
But why was he hanging with a 26 year old who was said to be very camp?


He was going to wag school that day but it was canned by his cousin/uncle. He spoke to someone else the night before. His footy jumper (I believe it was a Roosters jumper) was missing. There was a guy he knew (19 or so) who lived a few doors from some well know predators.

So (according to ebook);
Stogneff knows "A". He was 18 or so, and has contacts in the sporting industry. He lived in Pennington (about 12km from Stogneff's, so not close at all). "A" appears to be another one of Stogneff's uncles.
Raymond Rozankowski lived 6 doors from A.
Rozankowski was an acquaintence of BVE. Met him in early 1970s as a teen, apparently took a boy back to BVE's in 1980 (in the thick of the action)
Rozankowski knew Mr R
In the 1990 court case, many witnesses said money and drugs were o offer by BVE and Mr R to "recruit youths".
Rozankowski was friends woth Andrew Pearce - both were changed later charged with a sexual assault of a boy that happened in 1980. The victim accurately described the inside of BVE's house.
Pearce was jailed for 14 years for historic sex offences in 2013. He was know to use his sporting contacts to procure youths.
Pearce worked for 5DN in 1981 - on a sports radio program. This could have been the source of Peter's Roosters jumper

So it looks like this:

Roze and Pearce are sex predator mates.
Pearce work on sports radio, he has access to sports people. Pearce has a history of using his sports contacts to procure youths
Both Roze and Pearce know BVE pays for youths
Roze lives 6 doors down from A (Stoggi's uncle)
Roze is pushing about to his network that he can get jumper signings etc. He's trawling for victims either for himself or BVE
He either sees Stoggi over at A's house and asks about him, or he just gives A a roosters jumper. He throws the line out.
He later talks to A and at some point A says, "My cousin love the Roosters jumper you gave him"
"Does he want to get it signed? Barrie Robran is coming in soon, I can get him to sign it"
A: I'll ask my cousin
"I'll need the jumper in a few days, can he meet tomorrow. At the front doors of TTP?
A makes the call
Stoggi wags school and goes to TTP, thinking he will meet his uncle "A's" mate
DiDi shows up. "Are you Peter? I'm a friend of. I will take you to the radio station to get it signed. The radio station guy is running late, I have to eat..."
The the "radio station guy" shows up and his name is Bevan Spencer von Einem.


There's a lot of moving parts but that description is quite compelling, as is the info regarding the footy jumper.

 

[squawk]

Some further reflections:
There were 3 victims in the George Duncan case - the deceased, Roger James

Roger James

Age

48

Ht

177cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.9

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

6.9

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.6

3star

who sustained a broken leg and was conveyed to hospital by BVE, and a third unnamed man. Who was the third victim? I’m curious whether it is anyone who’s name has appeared in this discussion previously?
see pages 753-755 here - http://hansardpublic.parliament.sa....ansardFile.ashx?t=historicpdf&d=HANSARD-4-651

Also, witnesses described the 3 alleged perpetrators (the vice squad police) as being accompanied by a civilian who was a “tall man” but was never identified. Given BVE is 6’3 or so and actually picked up Roger James

Roger James

Age

48

Ht

177cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.9

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

6.9

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.6

3star

- it’s not implausible to wonder if it was BVE with the cops?

 

[squawk]

A further reflection I have is about progress - I looked up the ACC’s powers to use a star chamber and they look unlikely to be able to be used in this case. However, a Royal Commission could be used as it has coercive powers. Given the alleged perpetrators (and many of the 150+ estimated victims) are all in their sixties, seventies or more now - wouldn’t it be a thought to have a real crack at a review of the investigation and putting real pressure on surviving perpetrators, as well as giving victims a chance to speak themselves in their final years? Charlie - have you ever spoken to Stephen Ey or other family members of victims about this line of opportunity?

 

[Kurve]

Some further reflections:
There were 3 victims in the George Duncan case - the deceased, Roger James who sustained a broken leg and was conveyed to hospital by BVE, and a third unnamed man. Who was the third victim? I’m curious whether it is anyone who’s name has appeared in this discussion previously?
see pages 753-755 here - http://hansardpublic.parliament.sa....ansardFile.ashx?t=historicpdf&d=HANSARD-4-651

Also, witnesses described the 3 alleged perpetrators (the vice squad police) as being accompanied by a civilian who was a “tall man” but was never identified. Given BVE is 6’3 or so and actually picked up Roger James - it’s not implausible to wonder if it was BVE with the cops?

Are you able to copy/paste the relevant parts in the link here? Tnx.

 

[squawk]

Lastly - JezMez says Mr B is not Colin Bland. So who was Colin Bland and how did his name get brought in to being associated with Mr B and this whole matter?
And who is /was Gary Zubers, aka Shatze, mentioned in the Trevor Peters Diaries?

 

[squawk]

Kurve - relevant Hansard extract attached below as requested.

 

[squawk]

His name is Gary. It's not DiDi.

Gary Zubers?

 

[Bits]

Colin Bland doesn't exist. Someone stated ages ago that Mr B's name was Colin Bland and the error has been carried forward. Mr B's real name is not Colin Bland.

 

[squawk]

Colin Bland doesn't exist. Someone stated ages ago that Mr B's name was Colin Bland and the error has been carried forward. Mr B's real name is not Colin Bland.

I realise that - I just wondered where the name originated. I’ve seen it mentioned elsewhere as well.

 

[Bits]

I realise that - I just wondered where the name originated. I’ve seen it mentioned elsewhere as well.

It was mentioned way back in this thread. No idea where that person got it from. Might have been half-heard, incorrectly transcribed, a rumour etc. Possibly the person who first mentioned it here saw/heard it elsewhere and brought it here. Or the other way around. Pure speculation by me. I have no idea how it started. I just know it is wrong.

 

[JezMez]

I realise that - I just wondered where the name originated. I’ve seen it mentioned elsewhere as well.

The person who posted it (Nemesis) probably just got him mixed up with the Zimbabwean cricketer. Without this mistake, we would never have found him.

 

[Dell43]

Some further reflections:
There were 3 victims in the George Duncan case - the deceased, Roger James who sustained a broken leg and was conveyed to hospital by BVE, and a third unnamed man. Who was the third victim? I’m curious whether it is anyone who’s name has appeared in this discussion previously?
see pages 753-755 here - http://hansardpublic.parliament.sa....ansardFile.ashx?t=historicpdf&d=HANSARD-4-651

Also, witnesses described the 3 alleged perpetrators (the vice squad police) as being accompanied by a civilian who was a “tall man” but was never identified. Given BVE is 6’3 or so and actually picked up Roger James - it’s not implausible to wonder if it was BVE with the cops?

Recently heard a interview with Roger James discussing the Duncan incident and investigation in detail. As Mr. Wiesel mentioned James and BVE were friends.

 

[squawk]

The person who posted it (Nemesis) probably just got him mixed up with the Zimbabwean cricketer. Without this mistake, we would never have found him.

What about Gary Zubers?

 

[bth18]

What about Gary Zubers?

friend of the Alberton group, in the madrax scene

 

[JezMez]

What about Gary Zubers?

What about him?