Unsolved The Family Murders

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Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

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Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[squawk]

Can't be George - he was 16ish in 1982.

It also seems to say his name "Peters".

Greek man? LT? Gamba? I strongly suspect LT had the same role Mr B did before Mr B came along. I doubt the other kid was dead though - probably comatose from roofies.

the picture of SJW just jumped straight in to my head when I read it. It could certainly be LT or Gamba but isn’t a neat fit for their usual MO of being procurers or opportunists.

The witness’ name was suppressed in SA at the time so hence the reference to SP.

 

[JezMez]

A possible location of the unit is Lambert Rd, Joslin, is at number 10. Directly opposite is another set of units but these are on the western side of the road and Trevor Peters said it was on the eastern side of the road.

In the early 1980s at the time of the murders Denis and Bevan rented a unit in the inner eastern suburbs, maybe Norwood, Kent Town or Dulwich. Denis drove me past it once, it was on the Eastern side of the street, a heavily tree lined street, and was the front left hand side unit of maybe 4 units, built of brick.

That's a pretty good fit. It says "front left" but aren't most "units" front to back? It also has garage access for privacy. Personally, I always look for that when I'm out raping hitchhikers.

 

[Macka_321]

BVE was at 8 Walsh Street, Thebarton.

Just a thought apparently the 2 girls abducted from Adelaide oval had been seen on the corner of Phillips street which is right near where he lived just interesting.

 

[squawk]

That's a pretty good fit. It says "front left" but aren't most "units" front to back? It also has garage access for privacy. Personally, I always look for that when I'm out raping hitchhikers.

Front left seems to be more apt for the units on the western side across from number 10 and TP said eastern side. (He could be wrong though). The ones across the road on the eastern side at number 10 are front to back.
Both are classic 1970s brick.

 

[JezMez]

Front left seems to be more apt for the units on the western side across from number 10 and TP said eastern side. (He could be wrong though). The ones across the road on the eastern side at number 10 are front to back.
Both are classic 1970s brick.

I wouldn't describe either as "on the left" but 10 fits the bill a lot closer IMO. Maybe it means the one on the left when you're actually in the driveway?

 

[squawk]

Good luck today Charlie!

 

[acerdude]

No addresses identified as yet for:
GG practice on Prospect Rd
Peter Millhouse residence (North Adelaide?)
Woodards’ practice
Dr Robert Koulakis
Clocker aka Chris Wall (?)
The Highbury Unit
The Payneham Rd Unit of Jackie L
The number of the place in Chatham St Adelaide used by the TGs.
According to bigfooty.com, Kerry W’s surname is/was Warburton.

Clocker's I believe were the flats at 24 Rosetta Street, Collinswood going by the descriptions in the e-book.

 

[JezMez]

Clocker's I believe were the flats at 24 Rosetta Street, Collinswood going by the descriptions in the e-book.

I'm not so sure. It turns out a "unit" in Adelaide is what is called a villa everywhere else.

Maybe they call those things flats? Can anyone from Adelaide confirm?

 

[jason_recliner]

I'm not so sure. It turns out a "unit" in Adelaide is what is called a villa everywhere else.

Maybe they call those things flats? Can anyone from Adelaide confirm?

Yes, what we would call 'units' in Adelaide are called 'villas' in Perth (and other cities?). I think 'flats' are sort of interchangeable with 'units' but I'm not 100% sure on this. Ii might be an older fashioned term (I'm 40ish for perspective). I remember my parents talking about a 'flat' they used to own in Fullarton. I went and saw it and to me it was a 'unit'. Shared driveway, at least one shared wall (usually the garage), cream brick typical of the 60s and 70s.

 

[squawk]

Units is the most common term used to describe a small group of single story dwellings, typically with shared walls and common areas such as a driveway.
Flats is a term usually used for large groups of "units" that are multi-storey - two or more floors of them, but each property is only one level.
Townhouses are two story dwellings with 2-3 bedrooms, often in groups and often with a common wall.
A Villa is a term used to describe a type of house that has a certain period style. A bit like a Federation house, or a bungalow.

 

[Punk Rooster 16]

A Villa is a term used to describe a type of house that has a certain period style. A bit like a Federation house, or a bungalow.

Maisonettes

 

[GreyCrow]

Units is the most common term used to describe a small group of single story dwellings, typically with shared walls and common areas such as a driveway.
Flats is a term usually used for large groups of "units" that are multi-storey - two or more floors of them, but each property is only one level.
Townhouses are two story dwellings with 2-3 bedrooms, often in groups and often with a common wall.
A Villa is a term used to describe a type of house that has a certain period style. A bit like a Federation house, or a bungalow.

Happy with these terms

Units - 1 storey
Flats 2-3 storeys with connected walls
Villa - unit with decorative wood and a rose out the front
Townhouses the new term for flats

 

[squawk]

Does anyone have a link to the judgement for Peter Leslie Millhouse? 1980, charged with Neil Muir murder, SA Magistrate's Court I think. Millhouse was acquitted.

 

[Deni]

Maisonettes

I thought a Maisonette was a small room out the back of a house, they normally have a bedroom, living area, bathroom and kitchen all within the one large space? Like an old fashioned Sleep Out?

 

[wintermutes_]

Hi all.
I have been a long time lurker and the work and information on here is second to none. I seriously can’t think of a better source of info on The Family than this forum, and of all the places to find it, it’s on an AFL forum

So I just wanted to say thanks to all of the contributors. Amazing work and keep it up.

cheers.

 

[Punk Rooster 16]

I thought a Maisonette was a small room out the back of a house, they normally have a bedroom, living area, bathroom and kitchen all within the one large space? Like an old fashioned Sleep Out?

 

[Bits]

I thought a Maisonette was a small room out the back of a house, they normally have a bedroom, living area, bathroom and kitchen all within the one large space? Like an old fashioned Sleep Out?

That’s a Granny flat.

 

[Bits]

Erm .... according to Casefile there were bite marks on Muir's vertebrae and where his legs were separated from the torso. Has anybody heard this before?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

This bit about bite marks has been bothering me, but I’ve figured it out. I’m just reading Young Blood again. The section on Neil’s body says there were teeth marks on the vertebrae. As in teeth marks from the saw that was used to cut him up.

 

[JezMez]

Casefile. Lol.

 

[DropBearess]

As it seems a bit quiet atm, l thought it a good time to revisit some comments l posted on this thread many moons ago.
I still think it's important background info and might be of interest to newer members.
As mentioned in my post, l firmly believe the sordid Adelaide activities of BVE and co were happening well before Alan Barnes became a victim.
Are there any Adelaideans who are old enough to relate to the relevant scene in the early 70s and may have been involved in social work or related areas at this time?
Looking back, l often wonder if l/we knew a young BVE or a very young Mr. B?
I think we might have a few more pieces to fit into this puzzle.

 

[DropBearess]

This thread is great reading. As an Adelaidean, I've followed this case very closely since it's beginning. I have a few different perspectives which might be of interest and might provoke some discussion.

I don't believe for a moment the first murder occured in 1979. I think this whole sordid caper was happening well before then. There are still many missing young men in Australia before and after these crimes who inexplicably disappeared and have never been found.

Strange things have happened in Adelaide from 1970 or before. Around that time runaways and semi-homeless kids would congregate in Rundle Street, with City Cross being their Hub at the time. There didn't seem to be many genuinely homeless kids in those days. They were mostly 15-19 year olds, mostly males. They frequently adopted aliases and their parents were usually searching frantically for them. Several came from Mildura or interstate. They couldn't get any benefits and were effectively non-persons. Churches would assist them from time to time, with their young people offering friendship and peer support. Needless to say, they inevitably found themselves in trouble, usually break and enter etc. Violence was rare. For this they would find themselves in McNally Training Centre at Magill, where they learned all sorts of things and usually exited with homosexual experience.

There began the strange situations. These kids would be released with no verifiable homes and dodgy people to stay with. They would end up back in City Cross and church workers would try to reconnect with them. Then some of them began to mysteriously disappear for days at a time with no-one knowing and few caring where they were. They would reappear for a while, having been living with "some people", then vanish again. Often they would be wearing new, very modern clothes and have new haircuts, as opposed to their previous poverty. They would emerge looking very attractive, with someone having made the most of them. They were uncontactable when at these places and the whole thing was very mysterious. Volunteers were met with hostility over the phone if they managed to make contact. It gradually came about that the 'kind' people who were hosting these street kids were transgender and/or gay and lived a very high life. Their homes were located in places such as Stepney, St. Peters, Hackney, Gilberton and Norwood. The Buckingham Arms was their hang-out at the time.

At this time, it was difficult to ascertain how street kids were making connections with these people. Then it was gradually discovered that some of these creeps worked in central Adelaide in very mediocre jobs, in places where homeless boys might frequent. They had various nick-names. The boys were then introduced by these procurers to the wealthy gay men and transgenders. A couple of well-known stores come to mind.

It seemed the homeless youths were in awe of and afraid of these people. They would return to them for a time, then come back to the streets. They would make snide jokes to each other about sore bottoms and various other ailments but would display their expensive belongings to others and go back for more. But there were a number who were very afraid and in pain from medical conditions they would not discuss, caused during their strange abscences. There is no way of knowing what eventually happened to these young people.

At this time in Adelaide there was a totally inadequate support system for runaway youth and no way of identification. Youth support workers were hopelessly naive, as indeed were many police at the time. No-one had any real idea that there were actually people in existence who did these things. It's hard to believe there are not plenty of people who have information about these times.

Of course ages would not match all those suspects from 1979 onwards. But this scene definitely existed well before then and has obviously thrived since, with plenty of willing participants ready to change their sordid baton to the next team. There are people from the era described above who clearly could have been involved for many years.

I think that when trying to join the dots, we need to go way back. The more I learn about this case, the more I think delving more extensively into previous years might hold the key. And for what it's worth, I think the biggest mistake in the investigation was not putting much more pressure on Pru and co. at the time.

 

[JezMez]

How do we find the identities of people who may have been murder victims? Even if kids are are homeless on the street, they usually get accounted for. A couple of issues I see; some street kids have been vocal about their time on the street working the beats. In the simplest form, kid grows up in bad environment probably involving abuse, takes to the streets, meets other kids who find the easiest way to survive is by selling their ass. These people (former street kids) have been vocal about their "abuse". I don't recall any of them saying that they believed any of their associated had been possibly murdered. The other issue is, a lot of these former street kids like to attach their story to The Family, when in reality they were just kids working Veale Gardens. So there's a bit of a credibility issue with these guys.

So the question is, how do we find out who potential victims may have been?

 

[GreyCrow]

From the Mullighan Report

1. I’m five and a half years old. I’m terrified—you know, scared shitless—and there’s this bloke [the perpetrator] threatening to bloody kill me. They had a thing in there if you were a telltale, you suffered for it. You’d really get bashed up and everything else to go with it. I didn’t feel that I could actually go to somebody and say because then I’d just be classed as a liar, troublemaker, something. I’m just a welfare child. You couldn’t complain. Who do you complain to? didn’t have anyone else to rely upon. It’s the hand that feeds you and puts a roof over your head, so you have these conflicting thoughts even as a youngster

2. You got to the stage where you thought [sexual abuse] was just part of the norm; keep your mouth shut, otherwise you were worse off than everybody else.

3. Oh, I was the worst in the world. I was a liar. I was a lazy gin. (her words) I was only saying these things because I didn’t want to work. I don’t know at what point I started telling my welfare officer, and she basically said I was a liar

 

[JezMez]

Hey guys/girls, just be aware, if this thread morphs into "all sexual assault in Adelaide", then it collapses. There's a few FB pages around and the fall into a heap because everyone wants to tell their own story of abuse, and then connect every assault to a mythical conspiracy that everyone in power is in on.

I don't think there are other victims based on, if there were families would have come forward, "Our Johnny left home at 16 to live on the streets. We've lost contact, but now we know there was a group of predators roaming Adelaide, we want to check". Maybe it got that far and no one cared enough to follow up, but I would expect some noise.

 

[bth18]

As it seems a bit quiet atm, l thought it a good time to revisit some comments l posted on this thread many moons ago.
I still think it's important background info and might be of interest to newer members.
As mentioned in my post, l firmly believe the sordid Adelaide activities of BVE and co were happening well before Alan Barnes became a victim.
Are there any Adelaideans who are old enough to relate to the relevant scene in the early 70s and may have been involved in social work or related areas at this time?
Looking back, l often wonder if l/we knew a young BVE or a very young Mr. B?
I think we might have a few more pieces to fit into this puzzle.

Generally when I speak to people of that time (who have provided photos and info) I ask if they ever met BVE or Mr R and everyone always says no, or something like ‘I may have but I wouldn’t remember’