Unsolved The Family Murders

The Who's Who List

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

 
Last edited:

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
143
1,267
Coopers Stadium
Other Teams
Norwood Football Club
I heard that Megan Collier (TG, friend of Pru) is unwell. She has malt lymphoma, caused by major inflammation in the stomach & intestines linked to drug abuse. Also experiencing memory problems & believes this is related to drug abuse. Both issues have been linked to Mandrax.
so, could this be karma?
Is this a health management issue or a palliative care scenario?
 
Mar 21, 2016
73,840
116,755
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
I heard that Megan Collier (TG, friend of Pru) is unwell. She has malt lymphoma, caused by major inflammation in the stomach & intestines linked to drug abuse. Also experiencing memory problems & believes this is related to drug abuse. Both issues have been linked to Mandrax.
so, could this be karma?
Don't worry about karma - get someone official to talk to her

Even if it is adding a piece or two
 
Just for interest - this composite sketch was produced by police when investigating the disappearance of one of the victims, and was done at the time.
Allowing for the passage of time with two of the photos (which were taken a decade or so ago), does anyone think the composite sketch resembles any of the photos depicted?
If so - which one?

Of the pics there, it could be BVE or lesser so the last one but if you had Lewis Turtur in there, it might even be a closer fit.

It really looks like Javier Barden from No Country For Old Men. Great movie.
no_country_hed.jpg
 

Raisedeyebrow

Debutant
May 13, 2020
65
101
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Just for interest - this composite sketch was produced by police when investigating the disappearance of one of the victims, and was done at the time.
Allowing for the passage of time with two of the photos (which were taken a decade or so ago), does anyone think the composite sketch resembles any of the photos depicted?
If so - which one?
Photos 2, 5 & 6 could be the same man.. he s familiar looking. Who is it?
 

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
143
1,267
Coopers Stadium
Other Teams
Norwood Football Club
Yep. 3 are Pearce, one is BVE and one is Rozankowski.
Rozankowski knew BVE. He also lived in the same street as Stogneff’s relatives - his “cousins” who were actually uncles and aunts albeit similar ages to him.
It’s not quite proven as yet but tragically it would appear that Rozankowski and potentially Pearce were the link between BVE and Stogneff, via Peter’s own relatives. How DiDi and even Lewis Turtur fit in is their link to BVE but their link to Rozankowski and/or Pearce is unknown (if it was there) at this stage.....
I just mention Turtur because he has been suggested as a likeness for the identikit. The identikit was published in the paper as the man police were looking for that was said to have been with Peter at Tea Tree Plaza. The e book then says witness “Penny” saw Peter in the car with BVE.
Pearce’s link may (or may not) the football guernsey given to Peter, which was never seen again.
posting the photos with the identikit was an attempt to see if anyone saw an immediate likeness to any potential villains and if so, who.
 
Last edited:

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
143
1,267
Coopers Stadium
Other Teams
Norwood Football Club
Kurve - did you find these books? If so - was there anything helpful within them, including photos? Photos of places (as well as people) would be interesting.
 

Attachments

  • 451CA758-709A-4379-B998-0E347110B8BF.jpeg
    451CA758-709A-4379-B998-0E347110B8BF.jpeg
    129.7 KB · Views: 228

Big_Birdy

Premiership Player
Jul 6, 2011
4,597
7,042
AFL Club
West Coast
Does anyone have a copy of, or link for, R v Szach please?

I have access on Westlaw but you need a login. Is there something specific you want from it or were you just wanting a read? I can't exactly copy and paste the whole thing here...
 

Bits

Team Captain
Oct 31, 2019
409
2,411
AFL Club
Adelaide
I have access on Westlaw but you need a login. Is there something specific you want from it or were you just wanting a read? I can't exactly copy and paste the whole thing here...

Thank you! I would like to see the detail referred to here (from the ebook) please:

2A5E4BD3-2972-4E0E-B33D-BBBFFE1235F9.png

If you aren’t comfortable posting it here, would you please pm me?
 

Nemisis

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 27, 2012
5,599
7,130
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
David Szach ... why is his name being brought up regarding the Family Murders? I believe he was innocent of the Stevenson murder.
 

Bits

Team Captain
Oct 31, 2019
409
2,411
AFL Club
Adelaide
David Szach ... why is his name being brought up regarding the Family Murders? I believe he was innocent of the Stevenson murder.
It’s more about who else was in that circle than about Szach himself.
 

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
143
1,267
Coopers Stadium
Other Teams
Norwood Football Club
Pine Needles and Neil Muir

The e book mentioned that Pine needles were found with the remains of Neil Muir's body.

It speculates that the pine needles could have come from a pine tree located in the grounds of the Calvary Hospital in North Adelaide.
The e book also talks about "Colin" being exploited on an autopsy table in a major hospital by a medico with after hours access. This would have to be the RAH. I'm not aware of any pine trees there - plus the mortuary was in the basement there.
Further, it mentions the old quarantine station at Torrens Island. Again, I'm not sure if there were pine trees there or not.
Posters on here have also discussed a possible pine tree in or near to Prince St, Alberton. However, it doesn't seem that the TG house there was in use until a year or two after the death of NM.
Was there a suggestion that there was a pine tree near/at Mr R's house? If so, I don't think the needles came from there either. You'll see why shortly.
I've also wondered if facilities could have been used at the Adelaide University School of Medicine? Again, I'm not about any pine trees nearby there either.


So what other options are there? A veterinary clinic? The Adelaide Zoo - animal treatment facilities? A mortuary at a funeral director's home? Maybe others as well....

Recent research has uncovered the existence of the 'old' City Morgue.
It was at the West Tce cemetery. Forensic autopsies were carried out there until December 1978, when its function was transferred to the new Forensic Science Centre in Divett Place. The new facility included a modern mortuary on the ground floor.

A mere six months after the new building was opened in Divett Place, AB and NM are dead. NM is dissected.
The old city morgue was located just off West Tce, not far south of the buildings at the main entrance. The morgue had its own entrance directly off West Tce.

In the vicinity of the old City Morgue, I found a map showing there are numerous "Aleppo Pine Trees" within the grounds of the cemetery. They are marked as number 11 species on the attached image.

So - what if someone still had access to the 'old' City Morgue, six months after it had closed? Organs could either be buried/dispersed in the cemetery itself, or tissue/organs could have alternatively been disposed of in a hospital or another medical facility? he could have them disposed at his new facility in Divett Place? It would be much easier to carry in a plastic bag with body parts than to bring in a whole body.

It would be easier to dismember a whole body in a place like the old city morgue, than try and get a whole body in to a hospital (or a university or similar) place and then spend hours dismembering it there.

Maybe, NM was taken to the old city morgue (its no more than 10 minutes at most from Millhouse's place in North Adelaide; and 5 minutes from Hindley St or Carrington St, and all of 2 minutes from Chatham St - the first TG house). Then "they" did the dissection. Some of the body was then contaminated by Pine needles at the cemetery - most likely by transfer from the vehicle(s) or a person(s) there as well. Who knows - maybe ML and PS were also cut/dismembered there too?

Images are attached for reference. The morgue and aerial pica are taken around 1975/76; the maps are from a report done in 1988.
 

Attachments

  • 85B1B69D-FFD6-4C29-9C88-F28DCCD32C01.jpeg
    85B1B69D-FFD6-4C29-9C88-F28DCCD32C01.jpeg
    140.4 KB · Views: 169
  • 2D836C86-0E97-4C07-A62F-25C70683F720.jpeg
    2D836C86-0E97-4C07-A62F-25C70683F720.jpeg
    148.3 KB · Views: 166
  • 452BCAB1-82D9-43E4-91FF-833459FBFA02.jpeg
    452BCAB1-82D9-43E4-91FF-833459FBFA02.jpeg
    140.3 KB · Views: 157
  • E881EFDA-4E71-4238-BB51-459210D4774C.jpeg
    E881EFDA-4E71-4238-BB51-459210D4774C.jpeg
    186.7 KB · Views: 183
Last edited:
Mar 21, 2016
73,840
116,755
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
When trying to work out locations I go for the simplest. How easy and safely can I transport a body xx distance

The safest is to kill and dump close to each other - if that can identify you then your odds of being caught increase

If I am using an old morgue at a cemetery I am not going to the Port river.

I agree from West terrace to Port rd and Victoria rd is most convenient it is still 12kms or more

If you are using old graves etc as organ disposal then why not all of the body?
 

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
143
1,267
Coopers Stadium
Other Teams
Norwood Football Club
When trying to work out locations I go for the simplest. How easy and safely can I transport a body xx distance

The safest is to kill and dump close to each other - if that can identify you then your odds of being caught increase

If I am using an old morgue at a cemetery I am not going to the Port river.

I agree from West terrace to Port rd and Victoria rd is most convenient it is still 12kms or more

If you are using old graves etc as organ disposal then why not all of the body?

All fair assessments there - I don't have all the answers!

Off the cuff - imagine there was a pathologist involved. A medico who could reasonably transport bodies/body parts in a govt issue vehicle? Who may have wanted to put distance between the cutting location and the dump site? Who didn't have time to dig whole graves but could place some parts in the ground?
 
Mar 21, 2016
73,840
116,755
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
All fair assessments there - I don't have all the answers!

Off the cuff - imagine there was a pathologist involved. A medico who could reasonably transport bodies/body parts in a govt issue vehicle? Who may have wanted to put distance between the cutting location and the dump site? Who didn't have time to dig whole graves but could place some parts in the ground?
It wasn't a critique just random thoughts prompted by your post

It's a compelling narrative
 

takethepowerback

Senior List
Apr 19, 2012
175
383
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
West ham
Pine Needles and Neil Muir

The e book mentioned that Pine needles were found with the remains of Neil Muir's body.

It speculates that the pine needles could have come from a pine tree located in the grounds of the Calvary Hospital in North Adelaide.
The e book also talks about "Colin" being exploited on an autopsy table in a major hospital by a medico with after hours access. This would have to be the RAH. I'm not aware of any pine trees there - plus the mortuary was in the basement there.
Further, it mentions the old quarantine station at Torrens Island. Again, I'm not sure if there were pine trees there or not.
Posters on here have also discussed a possible pine tree in or near to Prince St, Alberton. However, it doesn't seem that the TG house there was in use until a year or two after the death of NM.
Was there a suggestion that there was a pine tree near/at Mr R's house? If so, I don't think the needles came from there either. You'll see why shortly.
I've also wondered if facilities could have been used at the Adelaide University School of Medicine? Again, I'm not about any pine trees nearby there either.


So what other options are there? A veterinary clinic? The Adelaide Zoo - animal treatment facilities? A mortuary at a funeral director's home? Maybe others as well....

Recent research has uncovered the existence of the 'old' City Morgue.
It was at the West Tce cemetery. Forensic autopsies were carried out there until December 1978, when its function was transferred to the new Forensic Science Centre in Divett Place. The new facility included a modern mortuary on the ground floor.

A mere six months after the new building was opened in Divett Place, AB and NM are dead. NM is dissected.
The old city morgue was located just off West Tce, not far south of the buildings at the main entrance. The morgue had its own entrance directly off West Tce.

In the vicinity of the old City Morgue, I found a map showing there are numerous "Aleppo Pine Trees" within the grounds of the cemetery. They are marked as number 11 species on the attached image.

So - what if someone still had access to the 'old' City Morgue, six months after it had closed? Organs could either be buried/dispersed in the cemetery itself, or tissue/organs could have alternatively been disposed of in a hospital or another medical facility? he could have them disposed at his new facility in Divett Place? It would be much easier to carry in a plastic bag with body parts than to bring in a whole body.

It would be easier to dismember a whole body in a place like the old city morgue, than try and get a whole body in to a hospital (or a university or similar) place and then spend hours dismembering it there.

Maybe, NM was taken to the old city morgue (its no more than 10 minutes at most from Millhouse's place in North Adelaide; and 5 minutes from Hindley St or Carrington St, and all of 2 minutes from Chatham St - the first TG house). Then "they" did the dissection. Some of the body was then contaminated by Pine needles at the cemetery - most likely by transfer from the vehicle(s) or a person(s) there as well. Who knows - maybe ML and PS were also cut/dismembered there too?

Images are attached for reference. The morgue and aerial pica are taken around 1975/76; the maps are from a report done in 1988.

This is some good detective work!
 

SquiffyRae

Team Captain
Sep 28, 2020
364
1,066
AFL Club
Collingwood
So - what if someone still had access to the 'old' City Morgue, six months after it had closed? Organs could either be buried/dispersed in the cemetery itself, or tissue/organs could have alternatively been disposed of in a hospital or another medical facility? he could have them disposed at his new facility in Divett Place? It would be much easier to carry in a plastic bag with body parts than to bring in a whole body.

It would be easier to dismember a whole body in a place like the old city morgue, than try and get a whole body in to a hospital (or a university or similar) place and then spend hours dismembering it there.

Maybe, NM was taken to the old city morgue (its no more than 10 minutes at most from Millhouse's place in North Adelaide; and 5 minutes from Hindley St or Carrington St, and all of 2 minutes from Chatham St - the first TG house). Then "they" did the dissection. Some of the body was then contaminated by Pine needles at the cemetery - most likely by transfer from the vehicle(s) or a person(s) there as well. Who knows - maybe ML and PS were also cut/dismembered there too?

A very compelling theory indeed. An abandoned building so no one was gonna check it out without a good reason and why would you when you had no idea who these sickos were?

Now I'm not convinced by the e-book's theory that Manock was the butcher but I am open to the idea he could be involved in this way. Is it possible Manock kept his set of keys and let that knowledge slip? As morbid as it would be, I could see an abandoned building with restricted access being seen as a good spot to establish a more private "beat" away from police knowledge, perhaps reserved for the more well-off in the gay community. I'm sure someone like Mr R's boyfriend or Woodards or Brown would have enough respect that Manock might've been open to letting them make a copy of the key under the pretense of getting somewhere to go for a private romp. Then bingo you have an insider or someone close to an insider with access to a perfect place for going cutty cutty.
 
Back