Mega Thread The Father-Son Mega thread - 2018

flinchfree

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Jan 30, 2014
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The academies are like welfare. Once you give people something it is very difficult to take it away. Can you imagine the outcry from the Selena’s if the academies were stripped.

I think the academies should be included in the football dept cap. Still being used to develop players.....no different fm employing a development coach
That's one bum analogy.
The other goes: Welfare is there to help people when they need it, when not everything has worked out as we'd hope, and rather than have groups just sit on the curb as the more able and highly credentialed and better connected stroll by to happiness and success in life, we give them a little giddyup to continue the fight.
Talking about social security there......if you're moaning about health care being welfare with a wah wah then you're beyond saving.

Academies were created to do the same thing.
There ISN'T money, time, coaching, ability to travel to high level training/playing opportunities, support from community and often family, and other myriad additives that help nurture the growth of athletic potential in all our outer reaches of Australia. That means, if you're unaware, that loads of kids go by in life without having the real opportunity to fulfill their inner potential. The idea of Academies is to draw more young talent into elite training and see what can blossom.
Without them, all kids just live where they are, hope some scout likes them on a visit to the area (crap for them if they have a down weekend in form..), and play out their unlikely lot.
When clubs are given this incentive to perhaps have a slight betterment of chance of bringing in one of their own fliers, they pour more money time and interest in giving the process a tonne of real investment.

If all clubs just waited until the carnival each year to mark their top 20, and only looked at the top tier under agers, it'd be a s**tty too bad so sad call to the dreams and aspirations that ALL kids should be encouraged to have.

I hope they keep all of it, improve on all of it, and not be smeared with trite politico social labels.
 

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Milkshaker

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That's one bum analogy.
The other goes: Welfare is there to help people when they need it, when not everything has worked out as we'd hope, and rather than have groups just sit on the curb as the more able and highly credentialed and better connected stroll by to happiness and success in life, we give them a little giddyup to continue the fight.
Talking about social security there......if you're moaning about health care being welfare with a wah wah then you're beyond saving.

Academies were created to do the same thing.
There ISN'T money, time, coaching, ability to travel to high level training/playing opportunities, support from community and often family, and other myriad additives that help nurture the growth of athletic potential in all our outer reaches of Australia. That means, if you're unaware, that loads of kids go by in life without having the real opportunity to fulfill their inner potential. The idea of Academies is to draw more young talent into elite training and see what can blossom.
Without them, all kids just live where they are, hope some scout likes them on a visit to the area (crap for them if they have a down weekend in form..), and play out their unlikely lot.
When clubs are given this incentive to perhaps have a slight betterment of chance of bringing in one of their own fliers, they pour more money time and interest in giving the process a tonne of real investment.

If all clubs just waited until the carnival each year to mark their top 20, and only looked at the top tier under agers, it'd be a s**tty too bad so sad call to the dreams and aspirations that ALL kids should be encouraged to have.

I hope they keep all of it, improve on all of it, and not be smeared with trite politico social labels.
I think most understand this. Its what comes out at the top end of that process and how that is managed to the equity of all clubs that concerns supporters.
 
Last edited:

4THAWN

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If im not mistaken, the whole reason people are angry at these academies is because it's leading to say kids that would've been F/S eligible to one club, being taken through the academy at another club.

Please give me a quick summary of the problems if that is not the problem
 

shoddy

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Can't speak for other academies, but the GWS run program in Canberra has been great for lifting the standard of the junior comps here. Leaving aside the fact that not many make it to an AFL list from the program, it still offers coaching expertise and competition opportunity that just wouldn't be available otherwise. Opportunities that just would not exist as flinchfree has said.

I can't see it as a bad thing; the AFL are going to persist with the northern state clubs, so anything we can do to attract talent in to footy has to be beneficial to all. Clubs and supporters whinging about the occasional gift the northern state clubs get in the draft are missing the bigger picture IMO. We want a stronger, better quality competition across the board and academies play a role in this.
 

flinchfree

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I think most understand this. Its what comes out at the top end of that process and how that is managed to the equity of all clubs that concerns supporters.
I'm not much of a believer that fluke-ing an exceptional talented kid every now and then is a game breaker.
Reckon you can counter balance the chances of being seriously disadvantaged by having better development and coaches thus teasing more out of the group you do have control of.
Then there's always the chance that really good kid goes to a club that's in a perennial losing situ eg St Kilda, in which again there's no real advantage.
Throw in free agency, trading, etc and I think a well run club with elite coaches and management will continue to make the most of it's progeny.

If all clubs are told that they should continue to invest as they have in these academies only to have all the kids pooled equally anyway in the ultimate fair split at the draft, you'll quickly see a serious downturn in those clubs to have any real interest in the process.
They'll just ask the AFL to take over the project and fund it themselves, while the clubs turn their focus once again to only their first team.
And the AFL as a company have diddly ability to really connect in the community with footy clubs and parents, whereas our great competition's clubs are all heroes out there in the schools and suburbs and involvement is rolled gold respect and interest. Get a Rioli out to your academy and every kid is bleeding to get there and show out.
It costs 'relatively' little but I reckon has a huge effect in giving good name and true result in the wider sporting tastes of the population.

It happened in the VFL where clubs couldn't get out fast enough their financial commitment when any real benefit became questionable.
It'll happen again.
Let the vagaries of chance continue in my opinion. I don't begrudge the Catters luck with F/S one bit, reckon it's an amazing ride for its supporters to link generationally with their club and watch successive family names run though the footy guide and feed the flames of hope.
Similarly for the Doggies, Swans and Northerners.

In general, they fu** it up anyway.
I'd just like to see us get that chance.;)
 

Milkshaker

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I'm not much of a believer that fluke-ing an exceptional talented kid every now and then is a game breaker.
Reckon you can counter balance the chances of being seriously disadvantaged by having better development and coaches thus teasing more out of the group you do have control of.
Then there's always the chance that really good kid goes to a club that's in a perennial losing situ eg St Kilda, in which again there's no real advantage.
Throw in free agency, trading, etc and I think a well run club with elite coaches and management will continue to make the most of it's progeny.

If all clubs are told that they should continue to invest as they have in these academies only to have all the kids pooled equally anyway in the ultimate fair split at the draft, you'll quickly see a serious downturn in those clubs to have any real interest in the process.
They'll just ask the AFL to take over the project and fund it themselves, while the clubs turn their focus once again to only their first team.
And the AFL as a company have diddly ability to really connect in the community with footy clubs and parents, whereas our great competition's clubs are all heroes out there in the schools and suburbs and involvement is rolled gold respect and interest. Get a Rioli out to your academy and every kid is bleeding to get there and show out.
It costs 'relatively' little but I reckon has a huge effect in giving good name and true result in the wider sporting tastes of the population.

It happened in the VFL where clubs couldn't get out fast enough their financial commitment when any real benefit became questionable.
It'll happen again.
Let the vagaries of chance continue in my opinion. I don't begrudge the Catters luck with F/S one bit, reckon it's an amazing ride for its supporters to link generationally with their club and watch successive family names run though the footy guide and feed the flames of hope.
Similarly for the Doggies, Swans and Northerners.

In general, they fu** it up anyway.
I'd just like to see us get that chance.;)
You make some good points. I love the idea of academies being a pathway for kids to play the game who may be disadvantaged one way or another.

However, Tarryn Thomas, for example would have gone in the top 5/10 regardless. Adelaide bid pick 8 and North matched. North were given a free hit in a sense as he was tied to their Academy. Tarryn should have been available in to all club and not tied to anyone. He was not disadvantage in any way and was identified as an underage player of the future by North Launceston years ago. Academies diminish the point, to a degree, of having the draft.

Then there was Heeney and Mills who got the ball rolling with Heeney being touted as a potential pick number 1 along with Mills. Both already had strong football backgrounds.
 

Brishawk

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I'm not much of a believer that fluke-ing an exceptional talented kid every now and then is a game breaker.
Reckon you can counter balance the chances of being seriously disadvantaged by having better development and coaches thus teasing more out of the group you do have control of.
Then there's always the chance that really good kid goes to a club that's in a perennial losing situ eg St Kilda, in which again there's no real advantage.
Throw in free agency, trading, etc and I think a well run club with elite coaches and management will continue to make the most of it's progeny.

If all clubs are told that they should continue to invest as they have in these academies only to have all the kids pooled equally anyway in the ultimate fair split at the draft, you'll quickly see a serious downturn in those clubs to have any real interest in the process.
They'll just ask the AFL to take over the project and fund it themselves, while the clubs turn their focus once again to only their first team.
And the AFL as a company have diddly ability to really connect in the community with footy clubs and parents, whereas our great competition's clubs are all heroes out there in the schools and suburbs and involvement is rolled gold respect and interest. Get a Rioli out to your academy and every kid is bleeding to get there and show out.
It costs 'relatively' little but I reckon has a huge effect in giving good name and true result in the wider sporting tastes of the population.

It happened in the VFL where clubs couldn't get out fast enough their financial commitment when any real benefit became questionable.
It'll happen again.
Let the vagaries of chance continue in my opinion. I don't begrudge the Catters luck with F/S one bit, reckon it's an amazing ride for its supporters to link generationally with their club and watch successive family names run though the footy guide and feed the flames of hope.
Similarly for the Doggies, Swans and Northerners.

In general, they fu** it up anyway.
I'd just like to see us get that chance.;)
The multicultural academies were created to appease non-nsw and non-qld clubs. There is no reason the afl couldn’t find and manage these academies and have the talent pooled.
 

flinchfree

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The multicultural academies were created to appease non-nsw and non-qld clubs. There is no reason the afl couldn’t find and manage these academies and have the talent pooled.
My eyes and ears are bleeding at the idea of the AFL managing anything outside of maximizing the dollar value of our game and how to grow it. In terms of putting in place coaches and infrastructure and all it takes to start up academies, they'd cock it up.
Why take it out of the hands of Clubs that have specialized in exactly this process for over 100 years?
 

Luv_our_club

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Feb 14, 2017
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Sydney have two more special talents coming through their academy in 2020, one is a likely top 10 pick, the other a likely 2nd round.

I would feel a little empty supporting the Swans knowing that my club has this huge advantage.
 

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Brishawk

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My eyes and ears are bleeding at the idea of the AFL managing anything outside of maximizing the dollar value of our game and how to grow it. In terms of putting in place coaches and infrastructure and all it takes to start up academies, they'd cock it up.
Why take it out of the hands of Clubs that have specialized in exactly this process for over 100 years?
Or just expand the AIS academy through additional funding to allow the inclusion of players from multicultural backgrounds. In addition to rep teams, there are at least one academy for every team, plus the regions are geographically split meaning clubs are essentially running multiple squads within their academies, plus the ais, plus, in the case of nt, the afl pay people to coach and develop junior afl talent. The resources are spread thin and I’m not sure it’s the most effective way to develop talent.

The nt has six zones with one of those zones a mixed zone with several clubs involved. If you made a single academy you could bring all that talent together and develop them in a team environment rather than just a a fractured approach. You could have nt academy v other regional academies etc. as something at a level below the under 18 champs.
 

rogiebear93

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May 17, 2017
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"Maginness was a class act through the midfield moving well through congestion and showing great composure with ball in hand. Maginness was a consistent player throughout the day and even managed to hit the scoreboard with a goal in the second quarter from a set shot and almost kicked a second in the last quarter from another set shot. Maginness hardly put a foot wrong all day finishing the game with 24 disposals and eight tackles."
 

MrPremiership

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Wonder whether being in the Metro side with Rowel and Anderson either aided or hindered Finn and what he did at the National Champs. Often played out of position to accommodate those guns.
 

Brishawk

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Wonder whether being in the Metro side with Rowel and Anderson either aided or hindered Finn and what he did at the National Champs. Often played out of position to accommodate those guns.
Generally it’s best to play with better players but if he was out of position it’s a great sign for his versatility. ;)
 

Davo-27

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I’ve just done a little comparison of stats for Finn and Noah, and on paper, Finn is performing at a very similar standard to what Noah is. I know stats are not the whole picture, but it’s very positive
neither of them had great championships, but they were 2 of the better mids Vic Metro had this year in a weak team that went 1-3 and lost to the Allies a really weak team this year, as you can see the key difference is disposal numbers and goals, also Maginness is moreso inside mid/flanker, whereas Anderson has the speed to play inside and outside mid, most of Anderson goals are on the run from around 50m out... i hope that helps you differentiate the 2

Anderson - 2019
Oakleigh - 3 games 8 goals, 32 disp, 6 clearances, 5 i50's, 47% cont poss
Vic Metro - 4 games, 2 goals, 23.5 disp, 5 clearances, 3 i50's, 45% cont poss

Maginness - 2019
Sandringham - 3 games, 2 goals, 20.3 disp, 4 clearances, 4 i50's, 50% cont poss
Vic Metro - 4 games 1 goal, 18.3 disp, 4 clearances, 4 i50's, 56% cont poss
 

rei154

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Tom Graham with his strongest game for Oakleigh so far last weekend.

Named in the best players, 24 disposals, 5 marks, 23 hitouts, 4 tackles, 1 goal 2 behinds.
I haven't heard much about TG since the 2018 afl.com.au post about him and have been well and truly swept up in the Finn hype- have we shown much interest in him since?
 

Brant

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Tom Graham with his strongest game for Oakleigh so far last weekend.

Named in the best players, 24 disposals, 5 marks, 23 hitouts, 4 tackles, 1 goal 2 behinds.
24 possies is quite a significant increase over his usual numbers isn't it?

Is he improving that much or was this game (at least to date) a bit of an outlier?
 

toomanysquibs

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The kid can jump, he might be worth a late rookie.
His old man was a real spring heeled jack, to borrow an anachronism. Heebie was just a freak athlete, who was never taught to kick properly. His boy only needs that athleticism and a good kicking coach, and he'd well worth a rookie spot. Hell, his old man could read the game pretty well, and looked dangerous as a forward on occasion.
 

Bugs1977

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