Play Nice The Final Quarter/Australian Dream

[Jewelsbon]

Just moved a few posts out of the media thread to here.

If you could please try to keep the media thread to media items & keep the political stuff seperate that'd be appreciated.

Cheers all.
Gtg.

Good one GTG, perfect thread for that particular discussion.

 

[bedford]

Just moved a few posts out of the media thread to here.

If you could please try to keep the media thread to media items & keep the political stuff seperate that'd be appreciated.

Cheers all.
Gtg.

Your sounding like me lol

 

[Kapanis]

That's not correct Bedders, I had school mates that were indigenous and relos did too that were older than me that went to school with the Ella brothers. Might have been different in country NSW though. When I was in primary school we went to Peak Hill, at the local public pool there were different entrances, change rooms, water bubblers etc for indigenous and non indigenous. Our teacher refused to enter as there were a couple of indigenous kids in our class.

 

[bedford]

That's not correct Bedders, I had school mates that were indigenous and relos did too that were older than me that went to school with the Ella brothers. Might have been different in country NSW though. When I was in primary school we went to Peak Hill, at the local public pool there were different entrances, change rooms, water bubblers etc for indigenous and non indigenous. Our teacher refused to enter as there were a couple of indigenous kids in our class.

I really have no knowledge of things in those days . I was all for Aus day till i read up on it and am now happy for it to change to a different date. I also read Aboriginal kids were not allowed into NSW mainstream schools until 1975. It's really sad .

 

[Bear31]

No date change will ever satisfy activists. There will always be protests, I just ignore them.

Education is they key.
I'm a teacher. I teach vulnerable people of all ages. I starting teaching a vulnerable 60 year old drug affected incarcerated aboriginal woman. Had no skills. Nothing. Never used a computer in her life. Never painted. Never read. Never written poetry let alone anything else. But she had a quality about her. I taught her computer skills. The first day in my class she wanted to throw the computer out the window. When I last taught her she was fluent in Photoshop. She took up art classes. She took up literacy classes.
Have you seen the trams with Aboriginal art on them. That's her. You can google her.
She now has a clothing line with her art, waterbottles etc etc. She left prison at 65 equipped with skills to start a life at 60+

Aboriginal people were here before us. They have never been violent in their protests. Why not treat them with respect.

 

[mtooler]

Education is they key.
I'm a teacher. I teach vulnerable people of all ages. I starting teaching a vulnerable 60 year old drug affected incarcerated aboriginal woman. Had no skills. Nothing. Never used a computer in her life. Never painted. Never read. Never written poetry let alone anything else. But she had a quality about her. I taught her computer skills. The first day in my class she wanted to throw the computer out the window. When I last taught her she was fluent in Photoshop. She took up art classes. She took up literacy classes.
Have you seen the trams with Aboriginal art on them. That's her. You can google her.
She now has a clothing line with her art, waterbottles etc etc. She left prison at 65 equipped with skills to start a life at 60+

Aboriginal people were here before us. They have never been violent in their protests. Why not treat them with respect.

Happy for everyone to be treated with respect.

 

[bedford]

Education is they key.
I'm a teacher. I teach vulnerable people of all ages. I starting teaching a vulnerable 60 year old drug affected incarcerated aboriginal woman. Had no skills. Nothing. Never used a computer in her life. Never painted. Never read. Never written poetry let alone anything else. But she had a quality about her. I taught her computer skills. The first day in my class she wanted to throw the computer out the window. When I last taught her she was fluent in Photoshop. She took up art classes. She took up literacy classes.
Have you seen the trams with Aboriginal art on them. That's her. You can google her.
She now has a clothing line with her art, waterbottles etc etc. She left prison at 65 equipped with skills to start a life at 60+

Aboriginal people were here before us. They have never been violent in their protests. Why not treat them with respect.

Sorry mate , in which state are the trams ?

 

[SwansProudly]

Education is they key.
I'm a teacher. I teach vulnerable people of all ages. I starting teaching a vulnerable 60 year old drug affected incarcerated aboriginal woman. Had no skills. Nothing. Never used a computer in her life. Never painted. Never read. Never written poetry let alone anything else. But she had a quality about her. I taught her computer skills. The first day in my class she wanted to throw the computer out the window. When I last taught her she was fluent in Photoshop. She took up art classes. She took up literacy classes.
Have you seen the trams with Aboriginal art on them. That's her. You can google her.
She now has a clothing line with her art, waterbottles etc etc. She left prison at 65 equipped with skills to start a life at 60+

Aboriginal people were here before us. They have never been violent in their protests. Why not treat them with respect.

Is this her design?
" Wurundjeri-willam artist, Mandy Nicholson, representing native, indigenous ingredients that feature on the restaurant's modern Australian menu."

Charcoal Lane wraps Melbourne tram with colourful artwork

www.missionaustralia.com.au

 

[Bear31]

Is this her design?
" Wurundjeri-willam artist, Mandy Nicholson, representing native, indigenous ingredients that feature on the restaurant's modern Australian menu."

Charcoal Lane wraps Melbourne tram with colourful artwork

www.missionaustralia.com.au

No its Ngiyampaa woman Kim Kennedy
See this link https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2019/07/12/track-through-indigenous-art-program1

I used to download and print pictures of the Murray river (including aerial shots for her).
I also taught her how to draw on a tablet.

 

[Bear31]

No its Ngiyampaa woman Kim Kennedy
See this link https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2019/07/12/track-through-indigenous-art-program1

I used to download and print pictures of the Murray river (including aerial shots for her).
I also taught her how to draw on a tablet.

more About the Torch program

The Torch helps Incarcerated Indigenous Australians 'Get Their Lives Back On Track' in latest awareness campaign via Hedgehog Agency

The Torch is supporting Incarcerated Indigenous Australians to Get Their Lives Back On Track with the launch of its latest awareness campaign proudly supported by Yarra Trams Community Partnership Program, which seeks to shed light on the confronting rates of incarceration amongst the Indigenous pop

campaignbrief.com

Indigenous prisoners allowed to sell art while in jail

A new policy announced by the Victorian Government allows Indigenous men and women to sell their artwork while incarcerated.

www.abc.net.au

 

[bedford]

No its Ngiyampaa woman Kim Kennedy
See this link https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2019/07/12/track-through-indigenous-art-program1

I used to download and print pictures of the Murray river (including aerial shots for her).
I also taught her how to draw on a tablet.

I love the Murray River

 

[momentbymoment]

He accepted his induction as a Bloods Legend in 2019 in the Swans HOF. That may be all he wants or needs. I'm glad that the relationship with the club is still strong because it would be a true tragedy if that was ever broken considering the immense respect he has from the club and its supporters.

This comment sums it up.
The Swans club and fans backed Adam throughout his career and most importantly, when he needed it most.

The AFL did the opposite.

I think it is up to Adam to decide his relationship with the AFL as they were completely absent when he needed their support.

 

[momentbymoment]

I've never quite obtained clarity in my own head about this issue.

I was at Optus stadium for the WCE v Swans game where the booing became an issue. And I didn't see it as a racist issue at the time. Nor, I suspect, did most in the crowd, who thought they'd just found a pantomime villain & decided to play along.

I was also at Optus last week for the Dreamtime game. The crowd was immersed in & showed enormous respect for indigenous culture. Again, I found myself thinking "this lot aren't racist".

And yet in the aftermath of the booing incident, I did reflect on what had happened to Adam in Victoria & how he must have felt about the resultant booing at Optus. And it saddened me.

I honestly don't believe those who booed at Optus were doing so out of racism. And yet, I think many came to regret their actions, having, in hindsight, come to understand the impact of those actions.

Adam Goodes is a champion both on & off the field. It really does sadden me that he feels unable to join the AFL Hall of Fame.

Perhaps research cognitive bias.
Most racists have no idea they are racist.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Lumumba participated in the racism by acceding to a white name and the nickname. Often that is what people do to fight the racism to try to become more accepted. So sad. That doesn't mean his arguments are less valid once he chooses to defend his own identity. People change and in Lumumba's case it was a journey of realisation. A realisation that he should be proud of who he is and take the fight face to face as he is now doing. it's entirely misguided to use his early submissiveness to somehow undermine his credibility or suggest he was the architect of his own problems. Wrong. It's an abomination that ANY white person at ANY time call a black chimp. Full stop and whether or not he acceded as it's been claimed he did. The wrong is in the use whether part of a team culture or even acceded by the victim himself because the use signifies racist belief systems

 

[bedford]

Lumumba participated in the racism by acceding to a white name and the nickname. Often that is what people do to fight the racism to try to become more accepted. So sad. That doesn't mean his arguments are less valid once he chooses to defend his own identity. People change and in Lumumba's case it was a journey of realisation. A realisation that he should be proud of who he is and take the fight face to face as he is now doing. it's entirely misguided to use his early submissiveness to somehow undermine his credibility or suggest he was the architect of his own problems. Wrong. It's an abomination that ANY white person at ANY time call a black chimp. Full stop and whether or not he acceded as it's been claimed he did. The wrong is in the use whether part of a team culture or even acceded by the victim himself because the use signifies racist belief systems

What do we do with Bobby Skilton's nickname ?

 

[caesar88]

I've never quite obtained clarity in my own head about this issue.

I was at Optus stadium for the WCE v Swans game where the booing became an issue. And I didn't see it as a racist issue at the time. Nor, I suspect, did most in the crowd, who thought they'd just found a pantomime villain & decided to play along.

I was also at Optus last week for the Dreamtime game. The crowd was immersed in & showed enormous respect for indigenous culture. Again, I found myself thinking "this lot aren't racist".

And yet in the aftermath of the booing incident, I did reflect on what had happened to Adam in Victoria & how he must have felt about the resultant booing at Optus. And it saddened me.

I honestly don't believe those who booed at Optus were doing so out of racism. And yet, I think many came to regret their actions, having, in hindsight, come to understand the impact of those actions.

Adam Goodes is a champion both on & off the field. It really does sadden me that he feels unable to join the AFL Hall of Fame.

You can't give them the benefit of hindsight though because they actually did know better at the time. What made it racist is that it had been well documented before that match how booring, jeering, heckling etc had a negative effect on indigenous players. Many indigenous figures on and off the field had voiced the harm that perpetuating an environment of personal hate towards players caused to them psychologically. This was not some unspoken, taboo topic. Even non-indigenous footballers spoke about the negative effects of booing. I remember Luke Hodge during the coverage of a match saying the players don't like booing and it really effects them personally (though he did acknowledge it was just a part of sport.)

So these people who booed came into matches armed with plenty of knowledge about how inappropriate their actions were and the emotional consequences it would cause. Yet they only grew in volume and vitriol. Ignorance shouldn't be used as an excuse. Same as the 13 year old girl. "She didn't know any better, she's just a kid"... well when I was 13 I might not've known how to ask a girl out, or how to do algebra, or how to pay taxes, but I sure as hell knew not to hurl abuse - let alone that word - over the fence at someone for no good reason.

If we spent less time excusing and rationalising racists' behaviour and more time confronting them with the realities of what they are - disgusting, degenerate animals - then they'd have less wiggle room and less confidence to spew their venom into the world.

 

[S120]

You can't give them the benefit of hindsight though because they actually did know better at the time. What made it racist is that it had been well documented before that match how booring, jeering, heckling etc had a negative effect on indigenous players. Many indigenous figures on and off the field had voiced the harm that perpetuating an environment of personal hate towards players caused to them psychologically. This was not some unspoken, taboo topic. Even non-indigenous footballers spoke about the negative effects of booing. I remember Luke Hodge during the coverage of a match saying the players don't like booing and it really effects them personally (though he did acknowledge it was just a part of sport.)

So these people who booed came into matches armed with plenty of knowledge about how inappropriate their actions were and the emotional consequences it would cause. Yet they only grew in volume and vitriol. Ignorance shouldn't be used as an excuse. Same as the 13 year old girl. "She didn't know any better, she's just a kid"... well when I was 13 I might not've known how to ask a girl out, or how to do algebra, or how to pay taxes, but I sure as hell knew not to hurl abuse - let alone that word - over the fence at someone for no good reason.

If we spent less time excusing and rationalising racists' behaviour and more time confronting them with the realities of what they are - disgusting, degenerate animals - then they'd have less wiggle room and less confidence to spew their venom into the world.

The thing which infuriates me still about this part you're describing (the whole saga still enrages me beyond my proper expression for what happened to Adam) is that Goodes had been called a "black, monkey lookin' c**t" on the field of play before by a very prominent player. This always seems to get overlooked but to me is really relevant - who could reasonably say that that is not beyond the pale and has a place on the field? Why in the name of god could anyone begrudge a man from expressing his shock, hurt, and pain at being called something akin to it during Indigenous round by a member of the public? And then he's still the villain when he says it's not her fault and speaks to her directly about the incident.

 

[caesar88]

The thing which infuriates me still about this part you're describing (the whole saga still enrages me beyond my proper expression for what happened to Adam) is that Goodes had been called a "black, monkey lookin' c**t" on the field of play before by a very prominent player. This always seems to get overlooked but to me is really relevant - who could reasonably say that that is not beyond the pale and has a place on the field? Why in the name of god could anyone begrudge a man from expressing his shock, hurt, and pain at being called something akin to it during Indigenous round by a member of the public? And then he's still the villain when he says it's not her fault and speaks to her directly about the incident.

It's white discomfort, plain and simple. White Australia as a whole is supportive of the indigenous community until they have the audacity to remind us of the imbalance in treatment that exists. Then we shut up shop and get defensive and it becomes us vs them. When Goodes confronted the girl in the crowd, or gave his brilliant and completely factual AOTY speech, or did his tribute dance at the SCG, those would've been proud moments for anyone who was truly invested in standing with the indigenous community. But instead, in all three cases, they were met with the rhetoric of Goodes is "attacking us", being "divisive", framing him as the villain as you said. That's when it's laid bare just how much of a facade white Australia's "support" for the indigenous population really is.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Reading what my fellow posters have written about Goodes' history gives me a lot of hope and pride in my club that so many of us can see this clearly for what it is and react with compassion and empathy.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

The Aus of the Year appointment pissed off heaps of people in and out of footy. Squatter Gil and the nobs didn't like it as well as every redneck.

Within the Aboriginal and TSI mobs there was some criticism he was too mild.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Just moved a few posts out of the media thread to here.

If you could please try to keep the media thread to media items & keep the political stuff seperate that'd be appreciated.

Cheers all.
Gtg.

Annnnddd again...

 

[S120]

It's white discomfort, plain and simple. White Australia as a whole is supportive of the indigenous community until they have the audacity to remind us of the imbalance in treatment that exists. Then we shut up shop and get defensive and it becomes us vs them. When Goodes confronted the girl in the crowd, or gave his brilliant and completely factual AOTY speech, or did his tribute dance at the SCG, those would've been proud moments for anyone who was truly invested in standing with the indigenous community. But instead, in all three cases, they were met with the rhetoric of Goodes is "attacking us", being "divisive", framing him as the villain as you said. That's when it's laid bare just how much of a facade white Australia's "support" for the indigenous population really is.

Absolutely. And I love the comment that people went with that an AoTY winner should be about unity and not be "divisive" coming from the likes of Sam Newman and Andrew Bolt who led the chorus of people booing Goodes out of the game. Truly unifying work done on their part.

I do think that the whole Goodes saga will lower the likelihood that someone will get treated like that in future. I think it's been a big wake-up call to a large proportion of the country (not the whole country, you can't reach 100% of people and you never will) but it just sucks that Goodes had to cop it and appears to have lost any personal connection to the AFL as a consequence. It hurts to see it as someone who brought so much to my life in the area which has brought me so much joy (the Swans). That he has a positive relationship with the club still is something I'm happy about though, and even something like MOL being on the board now makes me hopeful that Goodes' connection with wider football won't be lost forever.

 

[robbieando]

What do we do with Bobby Skilton's nickname ?

Nothing. This is a false equivalence and demonstrably ignores what Lumumba has said.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

You can't give them the benefit of hindsight though because they actually did know better at the time. What made it racist is that it had been well documented before that match how booring, jeering, heckling etc had a negative effect on indigenous players. Many indigenous figures on and off the field had voiced the harm that perpetuating an environment of personal hate towards players caused to them psychologically. This was not some unspoken, taboo topic. Even non-indigenous footballers spoke about the negative effects of booing. I remember Luke Hodge during the coverage of a match saying the players don't like booing and it really effects them personally (though he did acknowledge it was just a part of sport.)

So these people who booed came into matches armed with plenty of knowledge about how inappropriate their actions were and the emotional consequences it would cause. Yet they only grew in volume and vitriol. Ignorance shouldn't be used as an excuse. Same as the 13 year old girl. "She didn't know any better, she's just a kid"... well when I was 13 I might not've known how to ask a girl out, or how to do algebra, or how to pay taxes, but I sure as hell knew not to hurl abuse - let alone that word - over the fence at someone for no good reason.

If we spent less time excusing and rationalising racists' behaviour and more time confronting them with the realities of what they are - disgusting, degenerate animals - then they'd have less wiggle room and less confidence to spew their venom into the world.

I don't agree that the people who booed at Optus came armed with plenty of knowledge. I know I didn't (albeit, I'd only just moved home after living overseas for 15 years). I honestly believe most were just enjoying being sheep - albeit I'm sure there was some scumbag element within it.

I choose to believe people learn from this kind of thing & it makes for a better society. It was a terrible time in the AFL's history, but sometimes terrible events lead to enlightenment.

 

[SwansProudly]

Good article by Peter FitzSimons in SMH - how Tim Watson dug himself in a hole
“[I’m surprised] because I would have thought ... he’s been retired for five years, I would’ve thought in that five years repatriation had taken place and that the damage that occurred at that time, I thought it might have eased on him mentally and he might have been able to repair some of those bridges between himself and the game and feel differently about his time and then just appreciated all the great things about the game that were delivered to him and that he earned for himself.”
And that’s where the trouble started. The key offence caused by Watson’s words was the notion that it was for Goodes to repair the bridges between him and the game, and the insinuation – at least in the way many critics took it – that the game had given Goodes so much, so why couldn’t he just get over himself and accept the honour the game wanted to give him?
...
Watson does not have any history of racism, and is a fundamentally decent man. Those obtuse comments he made did not come from the same place as the bone-ignorant booing from the revolting racists who turned on Goodes in 2013 and never let up.
They came, in my view, because Watson just doesn’t get it, and the point is, whole swathes of Australia are still just like that.

Watson’s words speak for too many Australians in Goodes debate

Tim Watson’s comments on the former Swans star were wrong, but they represent the view of whole swathes of the country.

www.theage.com.au