Autopsy The Forgotten Man....

[parsons nose]

like some of the other posters here I can't see Youngy breaking into the team except if we have a disastrous run with injuries. Ive never really rated him as a footballer tbh. His best football was early 2009 even then, he was solid rather than spectacular and he plays a role in the team which whilst important is only required by one player. In other words you wouldn't want go into a final with a glut of outside mids. So lets compare him with other candidates for the position:
Bateman- down on confidence and injury prone since 2008 but his best is still better than Youngs' best.
Smith- Will receive more attention from the opposition this year (hope he doesn't succumb to the second year blues) but nonetheless more prolifiic than Young and better at getting into space close to goal. Also superior ball user.
Savage- My choice. Good early last year. Superior skills to Young with considerable improvement ahead of him. A real talent and one to watch.

 

[Rabbitpig]

I think a good year for Youngy. Some of his testing this pre-season has been better than expected.

 

[Hawks1994]

If he can find the form we all know he is capable of and his body actually agrees with him for once, then watch out for Young Young to really push for one of the wingers spot........

 

[Tomohawks]

This thread just confirms what i already know, we have the best depth in the AFL bar none. If the bloke who was BOG at halftime of 08 GF as a youngster is a fringe player at our club, we have an embarrassment of riches. Bring on season 2012 and beyond!

 

[Cynic]

This thread just confirms what i already know, we have the best depth in the AFL bar none. If the bloke who was BOG at halftime of 08 GF as a youngster is a fringe player at our club, we have an embarrassment of riches. Bring on season 2012 and beyond!

Biggest myth.

 

[Brishawk]

Not sure why people are citing 2009 as Young's peak as he played 5 games and I recall he had lost his zip after the GF injury. Didn't register a lot of stats in that period either . . . no goals and only one game of 20+ possessions.

2008 was his peak and he has not consistently being able to out run opponents since. I hope he can get back to that form as it will only add to our flexibility and hurt factor. The fear for mine is that a) his body is no good and b) his play style has been worked out. Teams won't leave him alone on the wing anymore and they know as soon as he gets the footy options a-d are kick it long down the line. Needs to be able to mix it up and hit a short target to make defenders accountable.

 

[flashmanvc]

Aside from his huge left boot, I've always thought Youngy's endurance to be his biggest weapon, although I'm not sure if this view is borne out in any club testing.

With the age-related decline of Bateman, Hawthorn have recently lacked a midfielder who breaks lines though hard gut running. I'm talking about that role Changa played so well in 2008, reading the play and then a 100m lung-busting sprint into space.

I know there are probably more than a few Hawks who have better aerobic capacity than Young, but capacity is one thing; having the nouse and courage to do it is another.

I can see Young filling this role in 2012.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Aside from his huge left boot, I've always thought Youngy's endurance to be his biggest weapon, although I'm not sure if this view is borne out in any club testing.

With the age-related decline of Bateman, Hawthorn have recently lacked a midfielder who breaks lines though hard gut running. I'm talking about that role Changa played so well in 2008, reading the play and then a 100m lung-busting sprint into space.

I know there are probably more than a few Hawks who have better aerobic capacity than Young, but capacity is one thing; having the nouse and courage to do it is another.

I can see Young filling this role in 2012.

Very good post.

Young is an elite runner within the AFL. Few players can keep up with him. His running to create options is outstanding. Bateman's decline has hurt us even more with Young missing as Changa and Youngy used to run riot together during games.

Long kicking is a major weapon against the press so blokes like Young who can run and carry to beat the press will have game plan value for us.

I think people underestimated how badly the knee injury from the 2008 GF impacted on Youngy. He did not recover from it for a long time and then he has had other injury issues too.

Given a full preseason he will be flying come round 1. He certainly does have competition for his position on the wing now with Smith and Savage but no reason the 3 can't all be in the side.

 

[WWSD]

Young was good in 2010. He played 18 Games kicked 16 Goals. Averaged 14.5 Disposals as a Half Forward/Wingman. That's the role I hope he plays in 2012! Some time in the midfield/wing, with some stints as a Half Forward Flanker. His run and carry is good, followed by his kick it from outside 50 goals.

Big Call this, but If Both Young and Savage play to their absolute best, Young would be better! At his best Young is in our best 18.

 

[Prudster]

Young was good in 2010. He played 18 Games kicked 16 Goals. Averaged 14.5 Disposals as a Half Forward/Wingman. That's the role I hope he plays in 2012! Some time in the midfield/wing, with some stints as a Half Forward Flanker. His run and carry is good, followed by his kick it from outside 50 goals.

Big Call this, but If Both Young and Savage play to their absolute best, Young would be better! At his best Young is in our best 18.

Just for the record, in 17 games in 2011, Savage kicked 16 goals and averaged 17.4 disposals. In 16 games Smith kicked 20 goals and averaged 18.8 disposals. Clinton Young has never averaged more goals per game than either of these two in their first seasons of consistent footy. Only once (2007) has he averaged more possessions than Smith did, and he only kicked 8 goals that year, despite playing 23 games. He has only beaten Smith's average disposals per game in two seasons (2007 and 2008)

Now, obviously this is a very narrow look at things, as there are other stats that are important, but the fact that Smith and Savage have managed to compete in two of the most important stats for this position despite it being their first year of consistent footy really says a lot to me. I see Smith and Savage improving further next year, especially Savage who tapered off towards the end of the season as he struggled with injury. But even if they don't, they will still be able to compete with Young's best season.

For mine, Young is nothing more than depth. If Savage or Smith gets injured, or Young hits a rare patch where he is injury free and in form, then he gets games.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I have thought about this a little more and how about a role as a defensive run with player. We know he has a tank and can keep up with many of the quicker midfielders around can he develop a defensive side to his game to keep the likes a Stephen Hill quiet

 

[Brishawk]

I have thought about this a little more and how about a role as a defensive run with player. We know he has a tank and can keep up with many of the quicker midfielders around can he develop a defensive side to his game to keep the likes a Stephen Hill quiet

Young is not competitive enough in the air to be a run with player on any but the most outside of players. Not thrilled about his tackling either. Would need to offer something else if he were to be get a gig in the side every week.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Young is not competitive enough in the air to be a run with player on any but the most outside of players. Not thrilled about his tackling either. Would need to offer something else if he were to be get a gig in the side every week.

Whilest i agree with you in principle i would offer Birchall as an example he has turned it around with what looks like a determined defensive side. Why can't young. I think it might be his best shot

 

[Taskmaster]

I think the likes of Young, Ladson and Bateman have been found out the last couple of seasons. You only have to look at the young blokes that stood up last year, Sheils, Suckling, Smith, Puopolo, Savage etc.

Have to agree with some posters and that is that, Young, Bateman will be depth players in 2012. Sad, but thats footy! But who knows, all I can tell is that spots are on the line in 2012. Its going to be a very good season.....

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Yeah for mine Young has been sub-par since 2008. That's over three years ago.

His kicking accuracy has weakened, I have not seen him put on his jets and burn the opposition off for three years and his confidence in conjestion and when the ball is in dispute hasn't been what it was in mid-to-late 2008.

That's a lot of ground to make up in one pre-season.

Unless he can get back to his late 2008 form, I fear he'll end up being part of our 'on the fringe' rotations with other players trying to cement a spot in the best 22, like Ellis, Bruce, Cheney...

 

[mrcurly]

Forgotten along with Ellis, Bateman, Gilham and Roughead? Of this group of injured/out of form/declining players Roughead is a definite starter, Gilham a 'probable', and the rest still struggling to find a spot IMO.

This thread shows how far the playing group has developed in the past 12 months. When we were on the slide in '09 Young was often touted as one of the key attacking players we needed to get fit and firing to compete again at the top level. Across the field we were a slower group, his (and Batemans) run and carry was missed - now he has become a fringe player.

Young is competing with Smith and Savage for a wing position, and both are outside players far more dangerous around the goals. Savage was in hot form before he was lined up in the game against Melbourne and injured his shoulder. He was playing such a damaging role then that he would have been one of the first dozen picked each week. He was reasonably solid, but not a shadow of that player, when he returned from injury. Smith is a must have in the team imo, if he continues to gain match hardening he will become a superstar.

If Savage recaptures his mid 2011 form in 2012 then its going to be very tough for Young to squeeze into the side, unless he reinvents himself in another position.

The 22 we fielded against the pies at the end of 2011 was a pretty potent mix that came within a kick of the GF. There is already Gilham and Roughead to add to that team, while Savage and Bruest were unlucky to miss selection. Add to this Gunston and Boumann, and it looks like we are spoilt with options. So the pleasant problem at Hawthorn is there are too many rising stars around the club. We can either persevere with the old guard - Bateman, Ellis, Young, Bruce etc.. or set the side up to be a juggernaut of the future by playing Poo, Suckling, Bruest, Smith, Savage, Whitecross et all..

Bit hard to have it both ways, Young could play a sub/interchange role (or fill in if there are injuries), but who would he be pushing out of the team?

 

[Great 2008]

Young always seemed to bob up against the Cats. They struggled to find a suitable match up for him. Young gets into some good places but imo did not make the opposition pay often enough. I think Smith its a much more dangerous proposition especially when it come to converting opportunities. Having said that I would not go into melt down if he lined up in the side round 1.

 

[Beachy]

We are very quick to dismiss players especially when they have not had to opportunity to play without injuries. Youngy has not been able to use his greatest strength, running. With a clear run we can see his ability and inportance to the team, savage played wing last year but his capacity to play on the ball will open opportunities for youngy to re enter the team. Smith is exciting on the other wing but plenty of run and carry options is not a bad thing in the modern game.

 

[Brishawk]

Whilest i agree with you in principle i would offer Birchall as an example he has turned it around with what looks like a determined defensive side. Why can't young. I think it might be his best shot

Yeah look there is no reason why he can't improve although Birchall had youth at minimum in his favour. Also think Birchall is more willing to accept physical contact even early in his career than young has ever been so it was less of a leap for him. I see young as unwilling participant in physical contests where smith is even more skinny but does not fear it (as a comparison).

 

[Tricky]

Biggest myth.

Couldn't agree more. Ran hard, and got a lot of the ball (the Cats were happy to leave him unmarked), but it was all to the Cat's advantage. From memory, 6 clangers with two direct goals resulting against one fantastic long bomb goal of his own.

He isn't great at spotting up with passes, and unless we have a monster in the square marking the long bombs, his offensive edge is limited.

Having said that, even though he had his residual injuries last year, I thought his defensive pressure and accountability was a little better than in the past.

So in my view, if looking at our best 22, he'd be on the cusp of the emergencies.

I hope he can take his game to the next level and improve his kicking effeciency and prove (it seems) the majority of us to be incorrect.

 

[Glenferrie Oval]

I have been to training since November and Young has participated in a full pre-season without issue

I haven't stopped smiling since I read this earlier today!!!
This is the player we need to be up and about but since 08 he hasn't been right. I think he's got op! Early last year he lacked confidence and could not even receive a handball without dropping the pill. Hopefully he gets back to his best this year and a full pre season will be the first step to this.
The fight will be for the 'left footers' wing between Clinton and issac. It's much easier to play running away from opponents and kicking on your left. This is why Cam Bruce or Savage will take the 'right footers' wing.

Good luck Clinton!

 

[pantskyle]

Would take this boy at WC in a heartbeat. Hope he hits top gear this year, Love watching him play.

 

[Hawsome]

Clinton Young's Stats in the '08 GF. I think he went off early in the 3rd Qtr.

14 Kicks, 5 HB, 8 Marks, 1 goal

 

[Buddysurkidsdad]

Clinton Young's Stats in the '08 GF. I think he went off early in the 3rd Qtr.

14 Kicks, 5 HB, 8 Marks, 1 goal

Impressive numbers no doubt, but when talking potential Norm Smith, effectiveness has to be taken into account and because of this alone Youngy was a fair way back in the pack

 

[Prudster]

Impressive numbers no doubt, but when talking potential Norm Smith, effectiveness has to be taken into account and because of this alone Youngy was a fair way back in the pack

Another thing to consider is that this is only one game. Sure, those are good stats, but he had already eclipsed his season averages when he went off, which means this is an anomaly.