Society/Culture The future of our society

jason pm

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Nope.

People don't trust other people enough for that, and it's almost invariably the same people that don't trust others to not take advantage of their laxity that will try to take advantage of other people. No leisure/pleasure based society would last, because there's no friction or compliance mechanism trapping these people into lives of service. Some people need their gilded cage.

While society continues to evolve and to change and our technology continues to improve, we're still gossiping peasants talking in a town square.
I admire your certainty, although I disagree, all we need to do is get connection with our inherent empathetic nature on an individual then societal level. I'm an optimist though.
 

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Gethelred

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I admire your certainty, although I disagree, all we need to do is get connection with our inherent empathetic nature on an individual then societal level. I'm an optimist though.
I really do hope you're correct, and I applaud your optimism.

I think we could get there eventually, but between now and then there needs to be a significant amount of change in interpersonal relations between humans, on both a macro and a micro level. People need to become more aware of the potential of others to do them significant harm, yet be more willing to trust them and to help them in spite of that potential. That is the barrier I see in front of the utopia you imagine.

Basically, if we can set up a society in which people do what they want when they want it, how do we stop people who want to exploit other people?
 

Jibroni

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Nope.

People don't trust other people enough for that, and it's almost invariably the same people that don't trust others to not take advantage of their laxity that will try to take advantage of other people.
Yes very true, the Australian Government over the last 10 years is a classic example. Hence why there is a high level of distrust and respect for others in Australian Politics ATM, probably the worse I have seen in my 30+ years. If we cant restore this then ability to have good debates and initiate policies based on some by partisan agreement then we have a problem.
 

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Yes very true, the Australian Government over the last 10 years is a classic example. Hence why there is a high level of distrust and respect for others in Australian Politics ATM, probably the worse I have seen in my 30+ years. If we cant restore this then ability to have good debates and initiate policies based on some by partisan agreement then we have a problem.
See, I don't think we've lost it; there's still parliamentary committees and senate committees that deliver findings that are very much in our interest, and they comprise the main body of governmental affairs and interparty co-operation is central to this.

I think the major parties - especially the Liberal party, but also One Nation, the Greens and the Nats - choose to act up at times the cameras are on them. They've internalised the marketing mantra of contact points; every single time you have the opportunity to interact with your customers (and in a political sense, we're all potentially their customers) you should project outwards the image you wish to convey. Each of them overacts in a very specific way at different times, and it takes something deeply unusual to knock them out of it.

But then, I think marketing's the devil's art, anyway. Deliberately lying to people in order to get them to buy what you're selling.
 

jason pm

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I really do hope you're correct, and I applaud your optimism.

I think we could get there eventually, but between now and then there needs to be a significant amount of change in interpersonal relations between humans, on both a macro and a micro level. People need to become more aware of the potential of others to do them significant harm, yet be more willing to trust them and to help them in spite of that potential. That is the barrier I see in front of the utopia you imagine.

Basically, if we can set up a society in which people do what they want when they want it, how do we stop people who want to exploit other people?
IMO people exploiting other people is a product of evolution and is changeable via pico/nano technology etc.. If you watch the last 90 seconds or so of the Ben Goertzel you tube link I posted he puts what he sees as the future of humanity very well.
 

Gethelred

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IMO people exploiting other people is a product of evolution and is changeable via pico/nano technology etc.. If you watch the last 90 seconds or so of the Ben Goertzel you tube link I posted he puts what he sees as the future of humanity very well.
Loooong way down the road, if you think pico/nano tech is the solution to these problems, and that's presuming that pico/nano tech is feasible outside of the imaginations of science fiction writers.
 

jason pm

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Loooong way down the road, if you think pico/nano tech is the solution to these problems, and that's presuming that pico/nano tech is feasible outside of the imaginations of science fiction writers.
Technology is expanding exponentially not linearly, I think it will happen sooner than most imagine, maybe even in my lifetime (I'm 59:shoutyoldman:).
 

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Technology is expanding exponentially not linearly, I think it will happen sooner than most imagine, maybe even in my lifetime (I'm 59:shoutyoldman:).
... because we've stopped forbidding education to more than half the population, (between racism and sexism) and because modern medicine has lengthened the lifespan of scientists and experts to allow them to research for longer, teach future generations better, let people know when they're being stupid, etc.

At some point, we'll reach a ceiling to our developmental speeds, constrained as much by our ability to think - while average IQ's are rising with each successive generation, that is not fast enough to keep up an exponential growth rate - as our biology. We've got more growth in us, obviously, but beyond that point, we either need to dramatically shorten a) the time it will take to teach the groundbreaking scientists and researchers what they need to know in order to develop the technologies necessary to perpetuate the rate of technological development, and/or b) the ability of machines to compensate for knowledge/ability gaps in the human researcher's repertoire.

When we hit that cap, that's the real cliff for us as a species. Do we alter ourselves, or do we allow machines to do the heavy lifting?
 

Seeds

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Technology is expanding exponentially not linearly, I think it will happen sooner than most imagine, maybe even in my lifetime (I'm 59:shoutyoldman:).
Not true, productivity is at record lows and has been slowing since the eighties. There hasnt been a major development in physics in 40 years, the field that drove most of the great breakthroughs of the past 3 centuries.

Robotic developments could be huge but will be slow. This aint the next IT boom. Its a slow burn. Biology developments are progably the most uncertain.
 

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I think the major parties - especially the Liberal party, but also One Nation, the Greens and the Nats - choose to act up at times the cameras are on them. They've internalised the marketing mantra of contact points; every single time you have the opportunity to interact with your customers (and in a political sense, we're all potentially their customers) you should project outwards the image you wish to convey.
Could also argue Labor MP's were acting the same way during the Rudd/Julia Conflict but I would be making semantics. I think voters generally see through this and generally vote with the conscience.

Yes Parliamentary Committees are important, but we have a few major reviews recently or institutions, organisation's that have lost their trust / dignity ie: Catholic Church, Banks and maybe now the Police. Maybe a long draw to bow but I don't think Western Society is as good as it use to be.
 

jason pm

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... because we've stopped forbidding education to more than half the population, (between racism and sexism) and because modern medicine has lengthened the lifespan of scientists and experts to allow them to research for longer, teach future generations better, let people know when they're being stupid, etc.

At some point, we'll reach a ceiling to our developmental speeds, constrained as much by our ability to think - while average IQ's are rising with each successive generation, that is not fast enough to keep up an exponential growth rate - as our biology. We've got more growth in us, obviously, but beyond that point, we either need to dramatically shorten a) the time it will take to teach the groundbreaking scientists and researchers what they need to know in order to develop the technologies necessary to perpetuate the rate of technological development, and/or b) the ability of machines to compensate for knowledge/ability gaps in the human researcher's repertoire.

When we hit that cap, that's the real cliff for us as a species. Do we alter ourselves, or do we allow machines to do the heavy lifting?
Not true, productivity is at record lows and has been slowing since the eighties. There hasnt been a major development in physics in 40 years, the field that drove most of the great breakthroughs of the past 3 centuries.

Robotic developments could be huge but will be slow. This aint the next IT boom. Its a slow burn. Biology developments are progably the most uncertain.
I'll bookmark this for 2025 and rejoin the chat:cool: when we have all been downloaded into some sort of eternal Big Footy simulation matrix.;)
 

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Gethelred

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Could also argue Labor MP's were acting the same way during the Rudd/Julia Conflict but I would be making semantics. I think voters generally see through this and generally vote with the conscience.

Yes Parliamentary Committees are important, but we have a few major reviews recently or institutions, organisation's that have lost their trust / dignity ie: Catholic Church, Banks and maybe now the Police. Maybe a long draw to bow but I don't think Western Society is as good as it use to be.
... see, I think where you're problem is lies in the shattering of illusions.

Basically, these groups and these people had a terrific reputation for helping people, for democracy, for assisting others and for doing the right thing; now, we have that revealed as the well intentioned (in some cases) lies they were, proven for all to see. What you feel is the shattering of that perfect image of what society was, and you wish you could be ignorant again.

I understand. My atheism is like that; I'm past anger at religion, and I occasionally feel wistful for the comfort it brought me at times.
 

Jibroni

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... see, I think where you're problem is lies in the shattering of illusions.

Basically, these groups and these people had a terrific reputation for helping people, for democracy, for assisting others and for doing the right thing; now, we have that revealed as the well intentioned (in some cases) lies they were, proven for all to see. What you feel is the shattering of that perfect image of what society was, and you wish you could be ignorant again.

I understand. My atheism is like that; I'm past anger at religion, and I occasionally feel wistful for the comfort it brought me at times.
Don’t think their illusions, just an expectation we should have a people serving in positions of Authority with the respect it deserves. Not much to ask.
 

Mike Smyth

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In one job I was talking to a guy from Africa. He was a child soldier. I asked why. He said he was trying to do good and protect his family.

What he was protecting from was us. Our society requires the minerals for our technology that come from his country. We make war to get those minerals.
Black men are more likely to be killed by other black men but don't yet another good old "whitey is the anti-christ" post get in the way of statistics.

How do I see the future - violent and bleak mainly due to us importing the 3rd world into our suburbs.
 

Seeds

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... because we've stopped forbidding education to more than half the population, (between racism and sexism) and because modern medicine has lengthened the lifespan of scientists and experts to allow them to research for longer, teach future generations better, let people know when they're being stupid, etc.

At some point, we'll reach a ceiling to our developmental speeds, constrained as much by our ability to think - while average IQ's are rising with each successive generation, that is not fast enough to keep up an exponential growth rate - as our biology. We've got more growth in us, obviously, but beyond that point, we either need to dramatically shorten a) the time it will take to teach the groundbreaking scientists and researchers what they need to know in order to develop the technologies necessary to perpetuate the rate of technological development, and/or b) the ability of machines to compensate for knowledge/ability gaps in the human researcher's repertoire.

When we hit that cap, that's the real cliff for us as a species. Do we alter ourselves, or do we allow machines to do the heavy lifting?
Lifespans will soon dramatically increase as we find cures to aging. That will fix a lot of your problems you have pointed out here. Not to mention we will use robots to do a lot of the knowledge generation for us.
 
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Black men are more likely to be killed by other black men but don't yet another good old "whitey is the anti-christ" post get in the way of statistics.

How do I see the future - violent and bleak mainly due to us importing the 3rd world into our suburbs.
When did the Indigenous here ever commit genocide against a white nation?

Was it a white or black guy that landed at botany Bay put a flag up and declare it his country's land and then start shooting?

Was it a white or black nation that didn't tell indigenious women about the sterilisation drugs they put in vaccines for common diseases, recently in the northern terreotory.
 
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Lifespans will soon dramatically increase as we find cures to aging. That will fix a lot of your problems you have pointed out here. Not to mention we will use robots to do a lot of the knowledge generation for us.
LOL.

Gov can't afford to support retirees even though lifespan is dropping drastically.

You sound like chemical ali as the tanks roll into Baghdad and he saying everything is under control
 

Seeds

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Lol.

I notice your graph goes up to 2015 right before the US and UK started thier free fall


https://www.smh.com.au/national/lif...first-time-in-1000-years-20050318-gdkycc.html
That article is a prediction for the future dude. People have been saying obseity will lead to falling life spans since I was a kid and life span has just kept rising.

There has been no collapse in global life span since 2015, global data just doesnt go that far. Where do you base your evidence on dramatic falling lifespan? Do you have any evidence or do you just make stuff up in your head to suit your own agenda? The usa one tipped very slightly lower this year. The trend still points up though.
 

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Interesting subject.

It will take a massive re-imagining on how we function as it seems to me that allowing a huge proportion of the society to starve or be unhoused in perpetuity is not the best option
At least the homeless get a nice view of the fireworks tonight
Apparently 10 ton in Melbourne 2night
Sydney has 5 ton or something
Why do they never measure this shit it cost ?
 
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