List Mgmt. The Gap

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Butters Made Me Do It

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Thread starter #1
Remember these drafts?

2009
John Butcher
Andrew Moore
Jasper McMillan-Pittard
Daniel Stewart
Wade Chapman
Scott Harding

2010
Ben Jacobs
Ben Newton
Aaron Young
Cam O'Shea
Cam Hitchcock
Danny Meyer

2011
Chad Wingard
Brendan Ah Chee
Nathan Blee


Yeah, they're all gone.

The 2012 draft saw us bring in Tom Clurey and promoted Jonas from the rookie list, so you know what? The next time Port win a premiership, Clurey and Jonas will be our oldest players.

By the time Hinkley's current absurd contract ends, everyone drafted before this dead spot in our list (Charlie Dixon a traded-in exception a slim chance of making it), they will be retired or be being delisted. Conclusion: Anyone drafted in 2008 or earlier is not a part of Port's premiership future. Sorry guys, its true, but you had your chances.

As such, these players are only at our club to do for us what we need done to build the next Port premiership team. Giving freebies games to a guy in poor form at SANFL level because he's a good bloke and has been around the club forever is bad list management.

They don't merit gold passes to drift through consecutive games of poor performance, because they are not part of our future. Every game we give them that they don't excel in its a piece of our future stolen.

Sack Hinkley. Play the kids when their form clearly merits it. Rebuild or perish.
 

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tribey

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#5
I would very much like it if the other guy we got in the 2014 draft could play his second game now.
Just double-checked. As I was doing so, I noticed this swag:

• Pick 4: PICKETT Jarrod (GWS)
• Pick 6: MARCHBANK, Caleb (GWS)
• Pick 7: AHERN, Paul (GWS)
• Pick 23: McKENNA, Pat (GWS)
• Pick 24: STEELE, Jack (GWS)

The four notables are all at different clubs, and the outright delistee is a former cricketer who was once U19 captain of Australia.

What does all this mean?

I miss Jesse Palmer, that’s what.
 

Interstater

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#6
An interesting topic but I currently have no idea.

My one possibly relevant thought is: if the group above had been recruited by Hawthorn or Collingwood, would they be superstars now or off the list?
 

raptalia

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#8
A lot of our drafting in latter years was effected by trading for players. We gave up first and second round picks for Polec, Ryder and Dixon. In 2013 our first pick was Jarman Impey at #21. In 2014 our first pick was Dougal Howard at #56. In 2015 we took Riley Booner at #37. Obviously those in charge tried to take the Hawthorn route by picking up ready made players at the cost of first and second round picks and it has not worked. For this strategy the trade off was youth.

Like many of us after a good year in 2014 the Board and Football Department obviously thought we were on the cusp of a Premiership. They then decided to buy some big names to seal the deal and it did not work. The draft is always a bit hit or miss but we did not call that correctly either.

The saving grace is that someone appears to have got the Draft calls right over the past couple of years.
 
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Magpiespower

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#11
Ports Powaz.
Football club.
Traditions barely alive.
Shitposters, we can rebuild it.
We have the proud history.
We have the capability to make another premiership team.
Without Kern Ports will be that team.
Better than it was before.
Better. Stronger. Harder.

 
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#12
I do think you raise an interesting point, but we are still trying to win the premiership this year and unless we are missing finals that should be a priority, besides we are already playing our youth.

I’m unsure who is being gifted games that is older than Jonas? Maybe Broadbent? Is this whole thread you venting about Broadbent over Garner?

I mean it’s pretty easy to see why we wanted to have a 6th player who’s actually played 100 games in the side this week. I’d understand the frustration over that selection a lot more if we had even a single player with experience in the backline already.

I think the club is playing plenty of youngsters, the only problem is that we are still trying to win the premiership. Which means if we are moderately successful half this board will be too busy bemoaning Hinkley to actually enjoy the ride at all.

I want to see us win at least one measly freakin final again, and I’m not going to watch us tank - which would give Hinkley an out anyway, checkmate liberals - for even a single year before we do.
 
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#13
This has been a reoccurring theme in all of Port’s list management threads. The failure to convert those picks has meant the failure to transition from the leaders and champions in the 2006 and 2008 drafts. It has also meant big gaps in our list and we haven’t been able to trade those players for anything substantial.

We have tried to fill some of those gaps with Rockliff, Motlop, Lycett, Watts, Ebert, Polec, Dixon, Ryder, Mayes, Trengove, Toumpas, Stephenson, Heath, McKenzie, etc but only a handful of these guys remain and the leadership from this group is questionable (Ebert aside).

The 2008-12 group are the ones who should be driving us on and off field.

Unfortunately we can’t do much to change this, however, astute trading/drafting and player management may avert any ‘drop off’.

Whilst I agree Broadbent, Hartlett, Trengove, McKenzie and maybe, Ryder, won’t be apart of our next flag, they may still have important roles to play to build depth, set standards, provide competition for spots and cover when needed.

Gray, Boak and Westhoff can all continue playing for another 2-4 seasons, no reason we can push hard for a flag.

1) Get some support for Wines. Coniglio is the obvious choice, do whatever you can Port.
2) Do not put all the ‘hope’ in one or two players, ie our forward built around Marshall, etc. Ensure we have a back up plan in case he doesn’t pan out.
3) Manage Gray, Westhoff, Boak, Ryder. These players can still give us game winning performances but may need more breaks and longer lay offs if injured.
 

Andre

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#14
Reading those names we really suck at this draft thing hey..
I'm as willing to give the club all barrels when justified as anyone, but an underfunded football department until recently meant more than just poor / not enough coaches. It also meant not enough money / people / time put into scouting. That said the two poor choices there were not getting another KPP instead of Moore or Pittard and similarly instead of Jacobs.

Those players drafted got the extra whammy of the most crucial development years as being when we had the worst resources to give them that development. Sure they got better development once we got a better funded football department, but the analogy of 'You can't teach an old dog new tricks', applies to some degree. Those skills should be being bedded down during those first 2-3 years on the list.

Add in our laughable fitness staff at the time (IMO a major contributor to Butcher never getting back to the glimpse he showed at the start) and the cluster**** that was that period is understandable.

Of course that doesn't change the fact we do have that hole in our list make up and our senior players do only have value in what they can teach / on-field guide the development of our younger players.
 
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#15
This has been a reoccurring theme in all of Port’s list management threads. The failure to convert those picks has meant the failure to transition from the leaders and champions in the 2006 and 2008 drafts. It has also meant big gaps in our list and we haven’t been able to trade those players for anything substantial.

We have tried to fill some of those gaps with Rockliff, Motlop, Lycett, Watts, Ebert, Polec, Dixon, Ryder, Mayes, Trengove, Toumpas, Stephenson, Heath, McKenzie, etc but only a handful of these guys remain and the leadership from this group is questionable (Ebert aside).

The 2008-12 group are the ones who should be driving us on and off field.

Unfortunately we can’t do much to change this, however, astute trading/drafting and player management may avert any ‘drop off’.

Whilst I agree Broadbent, Hartlett, Trengove, McKenzie and maybe, Ryder, won’t be apart of our next flag, they may still have important roles to play to build depth, set standards, provide competition for spots and cover when needed.

Gray, Boak and Westhoff can all continue playing for another 2-4 seasons, no reason we can push hard for a flag.

1) Get some support for Wines. Coniglio is the obvious choice, do whatever you can Port.
2) Do not put all the ‘hope’ in one or two players, ie our forward built around Marshall, etc. Ensure we have a back up plan in case he doesn’t pan out.
3) Manage Gray, Westhoff, Boak, Ryder. These players can still give us game winning performances but may need more breaks and longer lay offs if injured.
We first missed this opportunity in the days after the 2004 GF. We had the opportunity right then to cash in, and continuously missed for ten years.
 

raptalia

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#16
I do think you raise an interesting point, but we are still trying to win the premiership this year and unless we are missing finals that should be a priority, besides we are already playing our youth.

I’m unsure who is being gifted games that is older than Jonas? Maybe Broadbent? Is this whole thread you venting about Broadbent over Garner?

I mean it’s pretty easy to see why we wanted to have a 6th player who’s actually played 100 games in the side this week. I’d understand the frustration over that selection a lot more if we had even a single player with experience in the backline already.

I think the club is playing plenty of youngsters, the only problem is that we are still trying to win the premiership. Which means if we are moderately successful half this board will be too busy bemoaning Hinkley to actually enjoy the ride at all.

I want to see us win at least one measly freakin final again, and I’m not going to watch us tank - which would give Hinkley an out anyway, checkmate liberals - for even a single year before we do.
I suspect that you miss the point, as I see it the thread isn't about this week or this year but about four or five years where we got the list building strategy wrong. As a result we are paying for that now because if you look at our best side it has a lot of 28 year old plus players in it. Boak, Broadbent, Dixon, Ebert, R.Gray, Rockliff, Hartlett, Ryder, Westhoff will be 30+ in 2020 and Jonas, Motlop and Watts are not far behind. We bought five of those players onto our list at the expense of youth. If those players are going to get us to a Premiership it has to be within the next couple of years and how confident are any of us that Ken Hinkley has the ability to get us a Premiership before those players call it a day? For my part I have no confidence in that happening.

I realise that hindsight is a great thing but we got it wrong. For three years we only had one draft pick above #22. I am not knocking Hinkley for the call but in hindsight it was the wrong call. I also have to admit that I was wrong as I also thought we were on the cusp of good times in 2014 and thought Polec, Ryder, Dixon were the way to go. At the end of 2014 I thought Ken Hinkley was the answer but that has not proved to be the case. The really damaging thing is that unlike me, David Koch and his Board cannot admit their mistake and refuse to acknowledge that Hinkley is not the Coach we all thought he was.

You are right we are playing some youngsters but once again we have a choice, draft more youngsters in 2019/20 and go down the Brisbane line and wait while they develop or go down the Hawthorn line and try and buy a Premiership. As painful as it is we have tried one way and it has not worked so we may now need to try the alternative. Either way I am not that confident Ken Hinkley and David Koch are the people to lead us along the path.

Anyone who is looking for finals this year may be disappointed because when I look at the draw, which gets harder after the bye, I cannot see too many guarantees. I think this year should be the start of a rebuilding process in which we sort out our list once and for all and try to determine the type of young players we need. It is not all doom and gloom as we have made some good moves in blooding some good kids we just need to hold our resolve and be patient while these guys develop. The one move we must avoid is to go out an recruit a couple more 27 year olds that see us finish 8th to 10th for another four years. Better to take some pain and recruit youngsters who will take us to one or more Premierships.
 
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Janus

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#17
I guess Collingwood should tell Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Beams not to bother playing this week. They were all drafted before 2009...

If you go through each of those drafts you’ll see that they were either weak or gutted by Gold Coast and GWS. If I can be bothered, I’ll do a comparison between our drafts and everyone else’s.
 

Andre

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#18
I guess Collingwood should tell Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Beams not to bother playing this week. They were all drafted before 2009...

If you go through each of those drafts you’ll see that they were either weak or gutted by Gold Coast and GWS. If I can be bothered, I’ll do a comparison between our drafts and everyone else’s.
Collingwood are in premiership contention. No one's suggested the AFL introduce Ascension league wide ala Logan's Run, where fans get to see their 30 year old players knocked off. We aren't in premiership contention until at 2022 (if Ken goes full term).
 

Janus

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#19
Collingwood are in premiership contention. No one's suggested the AFL introduce Ascension league wide ala Logan's Run, where fans get to see their 30 year old players knocked off. We aren't in premiership contention until at 2022 (if Ken goes full term).
Says who?

Here’s a question: if Dixon, Hartlett and Watts were fit and firing against Brisbane, Richmond and Collingwood, do you think we would have won at least two of those games, if not all three?
 

Andre

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#20
Says who?

Here’s a question: if Dixon, Hartlett and Watts were fit and firing against Brisbane, Richmond and Collingwood, do you think we would have won at least two of those games, if not all three?
Sure, but we've seen that still would only have lasted until injuries and structure went out the window again. If we could be sure of a year where no talls or our key players were injured / out of form, we'd be a real chance. Since we don't live in that alternate reality and won't ever, then I stand by not whilst Ken is here.
 

finbarr

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#21
Ports Powaz.
Football club.
Traditions barely alive.
Shitposters, we can rebuild it.
We have the proud history.
We have the capability to make another premiership team.
Without Kern Ports will be that team.
Better than it was before.
Better. Stronger. Harder.

I always love the nod you give to pop culture of my generation in your posts <3
 

Magus

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#22
Says who?

Here’s a question: if Dixon, Hartlett and Watts were fit and firing against Brisbane, Richmond and Collingwood, do you think we would have won at least two of those games, if not all three?
Yes we rely heavily on Dixon. That's why we should be trying to develop a replacement for him in his absence.

Where can we find such a player?
 

Grave Danger

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#23
Ports Powaz.
Football club.
Traditions barely alive.
Shitposters, we can rebuild it.
We have the proud history.
We have the capability to make another premiership team.
Without Kern Ports will be that team.
Better than it was before.
Better. Stronger. Harder.



Six Million Dollars for the payout?
 
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