List Mgmt. The Gap

Am I right?

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Butters Made Me Do It

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Thread starter #51
You can only play the players you draft? Why would you look at it by players under 21, as if guys who are older than 21 but younger than 25 are old?

Garner will get his shot. Most likely for Byrne-Jones who would be on his last chance this week.
Because you need a functional measure, and 21 seemed good, because a player is often in their 3rd year by then, and should be physically ready for AFL.

21-26 is an age bracket where players are coming into their own and often peaking. Sometimes a co-captain.

27 is as good as any point to measure future decline. You notice how all the guys on that list, apart from Boak who got a late-career slump out of the way early, have either been with long term injuries or had indifferent form in this year? And aren't at career peaks? WEIRD HUH.

Saying "Oh, 75% of the 2016 draft is playing, can't play any more from that one" is insane, Janus.

If you are playing most of the younger players on your list because they are better, that is 100% fine.

If you are playing older players, when they are in bad form and off a long injury LIKE BROADBENT, ahead of younger players LIKE GARNER because of `experience' THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE IN SPADES (not skill, ability, form, or anything else), you're ******.
 

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Janus

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#52
Because you need a functional measure, and 21 seemed good, because a player is often in their 3rd year by then, and should be physically ready for AFL.

21-26 is an age bracket where players are coming into their own and often peaking. Sometimes a co-captain.

27 is as good as any point to measure future decline. You notice how all the guys on that list, apart from Boak who got a late-career slump out of the way early, have either been with long term injuries or had indifferent form in this year? And aren't at career peaks? WEIRD HUH.

Saying "Oh, 75% of the 2016 draft is playing, can't play any more from that one" is insane, Janus.

If you are playing most of the younger players on your list because they are better, that is 100% fine.

If you are playing older players, when they are in bad form and off a long injury LIKE BROADBENT, ahead of younger players LIKE GARNER because of `experience' (not skill, ability, form, or anything else), you're ******.
Where has anyone said that Broadbent is in bad form? People have said Garner is in better form, but no one has said that Broadbent is in bad form. He wouldn't have got selected over Garner if he was in bad form.

Johnson, on the other hand, is a selection based on traits rather than production.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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Thread starter #53
Where has anyone said that Broadbent is in bad form? People have said Garner is in better form, but no one has said that Broadbent is in bad form. He wouldn't have got selected over Garner if he was in bad form.

Johnson, on the other hand, is a selection based on traits rather than production.
WE DON'T PICK PLAYERS IN BAD FORM

EXCEPT THAT ONE

Do you read your own posts?
 

Magus

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#54
Where has anyone said that Broadbent is in bad form? People have said Garner is in better form, but no one has said that Broadbent is in bad form. He wouldn't have got selected over Garner if he was in bad form.

Johnson, on the other hand, is a selection based on traits rather than production.
There's guys on this board that watch sanfl rather closely and they've all said that Broadbent has been quite average.
 

FallingLiefs

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#55
For 5 years we’ve thought we were better then were, I thought there was a change of mantra coming into the season and aggressive trade/draft preceding it. 8 rounds in, we are back to playing the same players. Dropping kids we need long term and not debuting the ones in good form. Many people around here drink the bathwater and invent a train of thought of why the club is making the right calls but 5 years later we’re still in the same position. In 5 years time it’s hard to see much changing either.
 
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Moderator #56
Where has anyone said that Broadbent is in bad form? People have said Garner is in better form, but no one has said that Broadbent is in bad form. He wouldn't have got selected over Garner if he was in bad form.

Johnson, on the other hand, is a selection based on traits rather than production.
I’m paraphrasing but I reckon Ford did mention that Broady had the turning circle of the Titanic.

Without watching the SANFL games, it appears Garner was the better option to replace Bonner (who totally should have been dropped) than Broadbent. I’m not spitting chips over it because I have hope that Broady isn’t cooked but at the same time, this mini-rebuild or whatever it is, is looking more half arsed every week.

I’m still pissed that we selected a no form AJ because he did a good job a year ago.
 

ozph1870

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#57
Broady has been ok, except the second to last game v the eagles, but the thing with Garner is he has looked so solid, so ready to come in.
It's a soft safe pick, which may be ok, also might be a disaster.

When Garner debuts for the power, he might as well sell off his magpies gear, won't be back for a long time.
 

Janus

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#58
WE DON'T PICK PLAYERS IN BAD FORM

EXCEPT THAT ONE

Do you read your own posts?
Of course.

Johnson is a selection based on traits. If there was another player with similar traits that was available, he would have been picked instead of Johnson. That's why Bassett said he would have liked Johnson to be in better form in his interview.

There's guys on this board that watch sanfl rather closely and they've all said that Broadbent has been quite average.
I've never seen them say he's been average except for the first couple of games. Some lamented his agility but he's never been the most agile player and we played an agile guy in Bonner first up but he's a squib.

Look, my point is that if Jonas and Hartlett were in the team instead of Lienert and Byrne-Jones, I'd be all in for playing Garner. Hell, if the coaches selected Garner this week, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But there are certain things that the coaches are obviously looking for that Broadbent can do that Garner can't. So I'm not going to have a cry about it. It's not that big of a deal and if it helps us win games, who cares?

This list can win the flag this year. Not in three years time.

Broady has been ok, except the second to last game v the eagles, but the thing with Garner is he has looked so solid, so ready to come in.
It's a soft safe pick, which may be ok, also might be a disaster.

When Garner debuts for the power, he might as well sell off his magpies gear, won't be back for a long time.
I'm hoping he comes in for Byrne-Jones next week. Hartlett can fight it out with Broadbent for the other spot alongside Burton and Houston.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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Thread starter #59
Johnson is a selection based on traits. If there was another player with similar traits that was available, he would have been picked instead of Johnson. That's why Bassett said he would have liked Johnson to be in better form in his interview.
Weird how that doesn't apply to tall forwards huh
 

Janus

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#60
Weird how that doesn't apply to tall forwards huh
The great thing about Dixon being out injured (if there is anything great about that) is that he has to come back through the SANFL, so we can see what an AFL calibre tall forward does in that league.
 

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Jonts

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#63
Nah

But if I did, would I think an out of form Broadbent coming off a two year injury layoff will provide that and also carry his own weight? Nah.
Thats where we disagree, its evident imo that we've stopped switching and resetting our match ups as cleanly without a leader back there.

I can see the Garner should be in category but it should've been for DBJ imo, you very rarely win big games by throwing excess youth at the issue
 

FallingLiefs

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#64
Week to week selection doesn’t phase me too much, too many people blame too much on selection and individual players when we lose, including over the top criticism just to suit their argument.

It’s the methodology behind the selections over a whole year that is a real concern. facts like us nearly debuting more players in round 22 or 23 than rounds 2-21 combined in the Hinkley reign that is of serious concern. The fact we debut or play the least of most afl clubs year to year on a consistent basis. That we consistently don’t allow taller players the same leniency in selection and learning their craft at the level we recruited them for.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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Thread starter #65
Thats where we disagree, its evident imo that we've stopped switching and resetting our match ups as cleanly without a leader back there.
That started when Jonas was still playing, against Richmond. Seems more of a coaching breakdown.

And its not `excess youth', as has already been pointed out. Only 5 under 21s, 7 over 27s.
 

MilitaryLC

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#66
That isn't a worthwhile list element to try and exploit, unless your view is that every year we're carrying a bunch of miscontracted deadwood that players every other club thinks aren't even worth rookieing themselves can constantly accelerate past.

Its ******* bizarre that you look at our list and can only can find three players you'd consider delisting, and that you imagine Frampton is somehow one of the guys to delist as a priority.

Your view on football is warped, but I guess we knew that.
I have absolutely no where near the knowledge you have Portia on list management. But I can dead set rattle off at least half a dozen cloggers. It's pure and simple. We need rebuilding from top down to have a chance at a flag in the near future. Coaching structure and list now is on a road to nowhere. One also has to ask the question about these injuries.
 

FallingLiefs

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#67
Leadership a non issue purely in defence.

We can’t go from very good back in defence to very poor on the back of Jonas telling them what to do.The defence was fine against north, most even talked up their cohesiveness and organisation. It’s no surprise that the questions only arise when we get rightly made like a second rate club when playing the genuine top 4 contenders of which we are miles behind across the whole ground.
 

MilitaryLC

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#68
I'll go out on my own little limb and say Charlie has been a massive dissapointment. To me. Injurys aside.

All the Hoopla getting him in I can't remember a game he took apart. And he ain't going to improve on that record at Port. Mark my words. I'm fucxcng over it now. Time to start again. Get Clarkson back with Schofield takeover.
 

Jonts

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#69
That started when Jonas was still playing, against Richmond. Seems more of a coaching breakdown.

And its not `excess youth', as has already been pointed out. Only 5 under 21s, 7 over 27s.
Houston 21
Burton 22
DBJ 23
Howard 23
Clurey 25
Leinert 24

4 under 50 games, 6 under 100. No one older than 25

Doesn't scream anything like experience to me.
 

Jonts

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#70
Leadership a non issue purely in defence.

We can’t go from very good back in defence to very poor on the back of Jonas telling them what to do.The defence was fine against north, most even talked up their cohesiveness and organisation. It’s no surprise that the questions only arise when we get rightly made like a second rate club when playing the genuine top 4 contenders of which we are miles behind across the whole ground.
Nah
go reread the review and match day thread against north. Lack of switching evident Cluzza s great individual performance on Brown hiding some flaws, what peaked through the cracks in the last quarter
 

Magus

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#71
Thats where we disagree, its evident imo that we've stopped switching and resetting our match ups as cleanly without a leader back there.

I can see the Garner should be in category but it should've been for DBJ imo, you very rarely win big games by throwing excess youth at the issue
Jonas hasn't avoided the criticism himself at times this year.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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Thread starter #72
Houston 21
Burton 22
DBJ 23
Howard 23
Clurey 25
Leinert 24

4 under 50 games, 6 under 100. No one older than 25

Doesn't scream anything like experience to me.
Yeah it largely screams `best players for their position on our list right now'. Would've be good to continue that in at least one area of the ground.

And a big chunk of those games played have come since Broadbent was injured, so they know more about what the defence is supposed to be doing right now than he would. Garner or Broadbent, both will have to learn to play with a new defensive unit, and a new defensive coach, and the jump to AFL except Broadbent also has to manage his own indifferent form.

Is there a magic switch between age 25 and 28 that gets clicked when it comes to following a coach's instructions? I don't believe so.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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Thread starter #73
I'd also say that out that of all our untried players, as a former captain of Vic Metro and Eastern Ranges, Garner would seem one of the most likely to take on board his coach's instructions and communicate them when players strayed. Read any article about him pre-draft and all the signs are there. Why wouldn't you want to get that into your side?

Edit: Here's one - https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader...s/news-story/d7ce78604b2dfecdb377fbf78f571bf1

Here's another - https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...g/news-story/01d49ec1895f29fb238f6bd58fd205d7
 

Janus

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#74
That isn't a worthwhile list element to try and exploit, unless your view is that every year we're carrying a bunch of miscontracted deadwood that players every other club thinks aren't even worth rookieing themselves can constantly accelerate past.

Its ******* bizarre that you look at our list and can only can find three players you'd consider delisting, and that you imagine Frampton is somehow one of the guys to delist as a priority.

Your view on football is warped, but I guess we knew that.
LOL I missed this.

Frampton was Pick #84 in the 2014 draft. He was recruited as a ruck, not as a key forward. He's been shifted to key forward because he's not a ruck's bootlace.

At the start of the season, he was a delisting priority, because he was seen as the 5th ruck behind Lycett, Ryder, Hayes and Ladhams.

His shift in position has seen him move into a position we don't have much depth in, but it's early days. He's still in the delisting zone, but he's fighting his way out of it. When I talk about delisting and then retaining him on the rookie list, it's on the proviso that he can't continue the form that he's in at the moment. It's about giving him a shot at being a key forward rather than as a ruck.
 

MrPlow

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#75
This has been a reoccurring theme in all of Port’s list management threads. The failure to convert those picks has meant the failure to transition from the leaders and champions in the 2006 and 2008 drafts. It has also meant big gaps in our list and we haven’t been able to trade those players for anything substantial.

We have tried to fill some of those gaps with Rockliff, Motlop, Lycett, Watts, Ebert, Polec, Dixon, Ryder, Mayes, Trengove, Toumpas, Stephenson, Heath, McKenzie, etc but only a handful of these guys remain and the leadership from this group is questionable (Ebert aside).

The 2008-12 group are the ones who should be driving us on and off field.

Unfortunately we can’t do much to change this, however, astute trading/drafting and player management may avert any ‘drop off’.

Whilst I agree Broadbent, Hartlett, Trengove, McKenzie and maybe, Ryder, won’t be apart of our next flag, they may still have important roles to play to build depth, set standards, provide competition for spots and cover when needed.

Gray, Boak and Westhoff can all continue playing for another 2-4 seasons, no reason we can push hard for a flag.

1) Get some support for Wines. Coniglio is the obvious choice, do whatever you can Port.
2) Do not put all the ‘hope’ in one or two players, ie our forward built around Marshall, etc. Ensure we have a back up plan in case he doesn’t pan out.
3) Manage Gray, Westhoff, Boak, Ryder. These players can still give us game winning performances but may need more breaks and longer lay offs if injured.
Heath and Stephenson..I had forgotten entirely of their existence. Seems like a lifetime ago lol
 
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