Society/Culture The Gender Pay Gap

[Nice Swan Brother]

Has child support and parenting payments ever been factored into the gap calculation.

If the major factor is time off for mothers to raise children, and those mothers are in long term relationships/married, then at a combined income level there really is no gap.

That doesn't help single mothers, but child support augmenting their income (whilst reducing fathers), as well as single parent benefits would offset that, would be interesting to know to what degree.

I know the above is full of generalisations.

 

[raskolnikov]

If the major factor is time off for mothers to raise children, and those mothers are in long term relationships/married, then at a combined income level there really is no gap.

But that's ruining the narrative.

 

[the_interloper]

But that's ruining the narrative.

It's assuming the relationship stays together though which a lot more don't these days. I'm guessing divorce/separation proceedings and allocations account for this though, I think superannuation is included if I'm not wrong?

 

[Taylor]

It's assuming the relationship stays together though which a lot more don't these days. I'm guessing divorce/separation proceedings and allocations account for this though, I think superannuation is included if I'm not wrong?

It would very much help show a divide in lifetime earnings if super is included. The median super balance split by gender is a fair bit removed from each other.

It's also quite a lot lower than people might expect. The median super balance wouldn't pay off half a mortgage for any age group from what I remember. You can find the data broken down into five year groups.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

It would very much help show a divide in lifetime earnings if super is included. The median super balance split by gender is a fair bit removed from each other.

It's also quite a lot lower than people might expect. The median super balance wouldn't pay off half a mortgage for any age group from what I remember. You can find the data broken down into five year groups.

I'm pretty sure that super is one of the things taken into consideration when calculating the gender pay gap. I'm mid 50s and my wife is early 50s, her super is around 12 - 14% of what mine is. We're really trying to start now pumping more into hers. We'll be happy if we can get hers up enough to pay for a nice caravan and suitable tow vehicle for when we retire.

In my last role before leaving WA, I worked side by side with a woman who was on $40k per year more than me doing the exact same job. She originally worked in a role that was contracted to BHP. When BHP took the role back inhouse, they kept her and she kept her pay rate. When I found out about it I hit the roof, management promised me they would bring me up level with her but they couldn't do it in one hit, it would be 5% per year for 5 years. We hadn't been getting pay rises for years anyway so I was half happy with it. First year I got the 5% and then for the next 2 years I got nothing, in the end, it was probably the biggest factor in me quitting, even more so than the COVID border closures. Imagine working next to someone, working blow for blow and they're getting $800 per week more than you? I never blamed her, I knew it wasn't her fault but it certainly left a sour taste in my mouth. campaigners.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

In my last role before leaving WA, I worked side by side with a woman who was on $40k per year more than me doing the exact same job. She originally worked in a role that was contracted to BHP. When BHP took the role back inhouse, they kept her and she kept her pay rate. When I found out about it I hit the roof, management promised me they would bring me up level with her but they couldn't do it in one hit, it would be 5% per year for 5 years. We hadn't been getting pay rises for years anyway so I was half happy with it. First year I got the 5% and then for the next 2 years I got nothing, in the end, it was probably the biggest factor in me quitting, even more so than the COVID border closures. Imagine working next to someone, working blow for blow and they're getting $800 per week more than you? I never blamed her, I knew it wasn't her fault but it certainly left a sour taste in my mouth. campaigners.

Unfortunately it's a common story and happens everywhere, male or female whatever. This is why lots of companies tell you not to discuss your pay.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Unfortunately it's a common story and happens everywhere, male or female whatever. This is why lots of companies tell you not to discuss your pay.

Yeah, management used to get cranky with us, especially when we'd talk about our bonuses and someone's was less than others for whatever reason.

 

[Big Papa Ted]

Unfortunately it's a common story and happens everywhere, male or female whatever. This is why lots of companies tell you not to discuss your pay.

Thank christ they ****ed off pay secrecy laws.

 

[mr bagcroft]

I'm pretty sure that super is one of the things taken into consideration when calculating the gender pay gap. I'm mid 50s and my wife is early 50s, her super is around 12 - 14% of what mine is. We're really trying to start now pumping more into hers. We'll be happy if we can get hers up enough to pay for a nice caravan and suitable tow vehicle for when we retire.

In my last role before leaving WA, I worked side by side with a woman who was on $40k per year more than me doing the exact same job. She originally worked in a role that was contracted to BHP. When BHP took the role back inhouse, they kept her and she kept her pay rate. When I found out about it I hit the roof, management promised me they would bring me up level with her but they couldn't do it in one hit, it would be 5% per year for 5 years. We hadn't been getting pay rises for years anyway so I was half happy with it. First year I got the 5% and then for the next 2 years I got nothing, in the end, it was probably the biggest factor in me quitting, even more so than the COVID border closures. Imagine working next to someone, working blow for blow and they're getting $800 per week more than you? I never blamed her, I knew it wasn't her fault but it certainly left a sour taste in my mouth. campaigners.

Did she have more experience than you? Longer company history? This seems a rather unqualified statement.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Did she have more experience than you? Longer company history? This seems a rather unqualified statement.

No and no. I'm not sure how you would think it unqualified. We worked side by side, same conditions, same role, same.roster / hours. By the time I transferred I'd been with BHP for 6 1/2 years, she had been 3 months longer.

She was definitely a hard worker but when it came to using SAP in all facets I ran rings around her.

Her background before doing the role, which was as a Materials Logistics Officer, was as a Tool Storeperson which a trained monkey could do. Prior to that she was a site cleaner with ISS.

Mine was as a Warehouse Supervisor, and immediately prior to transferring from Nickel West to Iron Ore I was Nickel West's first ever Materials Logistics Officer. I pushed for years to have the role created and when they finally did, I took it and wrote the book on it.

One of the reasons Iron Ore took me on was to fix the role up, train people and write procedures for it. The only thing I achieved in 3 1/2 years was to write procedures which were ignored.

Even without COVID it is probably the most soul destroying role I've ever had. When I reflect on it now I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did at WAIO.

 

[the_interloper]

No and no. I'm not sure how you would think it unqualified. We worked side by side, same conditions, same role, same.roster / hours. By the time I transferred I'd been with BHP for 6 1/2 years, she had been 3 months longer.

She was definitely a hard worker but when it came to using SAP in all facets I ran rings around her.

Her background before doing the role, which was as a Materials Logistics Officer, was as a Tool Storeperson which a trained monkey could do. Prior to that she was a site cleaner with ISS.

Mine was as a Warehouse Supervisor, and immediately prior to transferring from Nickel West to Iron Ore I was Nickel West's first ever Materials Logistics Officer. I pushed for years to have the role created and when they finally did, I took it and wrote the book on it.

One of the reasons Iron Ore took me on was to fix the role up, train people and write procedures for it. The only thing I achieved in 3 1/2 years was to write procedures which were ignored.

Even without COVID it is probably the most soul destroying role I've ever had. When I reflect on it now I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did at WAIO.

From what I know of BHP they are very concerned about gender representation etc, do you know if the board/execs have KPIs around the pay gap, quotas of women etc? I do know of a US company that paid new female graduates 30% more than male because their company pay gap was that, seriously.

 

[the_interloper]

In 2019 we lost part of our yearly bonus because the company didn't meet their targets for hiring females.

Your answer could be somewhere in there I'd say

 

[Gethelred]

A statistical analysis of Jordan Peterson's commentary on the Gender Pay Gap.

 

[Fadge]

A statistical analysis of Jordan Peterson's commentary on the Gender Pay Gap.

Yeah, I stopped when he referenced Mad Men, a tv series based on a 1960's Advertising Firm, to support his argument...

 

[Gethelred]

Yeah, I stopped when he referenced Mad Men, a tv series based on a 1960's Advertising Firm, to support his argument...

... in pursuit of making a wider point, that society predisposes people towards different jobs based on their gender, as illustrated by Mad Men.

I'd say intellectual laziness doesn't suit you Fadge, but in all honesty I don't know who you'd be without it.

 

[Fadge]

... in pursuit of making a wider point, that society predisposes people towards different jobs based on their gender, as illustrated by Mad Men.

I'd say intellectual laziness doesn't suit you Fadge, but in all honesty I don't know who you'd be without it.

I think we're all aware that gender stereotypes were very different back in the 1960's than they are in 2023.

It is astounding that someone would consider using that in their analysis to support their argument, but I guess in the absence of current data and facts, they don't have much else to use..

 

[Gethelred]

I think we're all aware that gender stereotypes were very different back in the 1960's than they are in 2023.

It is astounding that someone would consider using that in their analysis to support their argument, but I guess in the absence of current data and facts, they don't have much else to use..

Gee, I wonder whether that analysis goes a little deeper than that? Do you know of any possible way you could have worked out if that's all there is to say for his argument or that video?

You must think that Lord of the Rings trilogy must be pretty boring what with having put it down before they left the Shire...

 

[Fadge]

Gee, I wonder whether that analysis goes a little deeper than that? Do you know of any possible way you could have worked out if that's all there is to say for his argument or that video?

You must think that Lord of the Rings trilogy must be pretty boring what with having put it down before they left the Shire...

If he's going down the path of gender stereotyping...

Do you really believe that is a problem, in 2023 where many organisations having gender quotas to fill for partnerships, C level roles and leadership positions?

When I have a bit more time I will go back and watch it in its entirety, I'm always fascinated by what people come up with in an effort to promote the myth that is the Gender Pay Gap.

 

[the_interloper]

If he's going down the path of gender stereotyping...

Do you really believe that is a problem, in 2023 where many organisations having gender quotas to fill for partnerships, C level roles and leadership positions?

When I have a bit more time I will go back and watch it in its entirety, I'm always fascinated by what people come up with in an effort to promote the myth that is the Gender Pay Gap.

To be clear (and maybe it's semantics) but the "gender pay gap" is a statistic, it exists, just a calculation. It's the reason for it where everyone seems to differ.

 

[owen87]

To be clear (and maybe it's semantics) but the "gender pay gap" is a statistic, it exists, just a calculation. It's the reason for it where everyone seems to differ.

Which calculation used is also a point of discussion

Gender pay gap guide

Learn about the gender pay gap, the key contributing factors and our recommended indicators

www.abs.gov.au

 

[Fadge]

To be clear (and maybe it's semantics) but the "gender pay gap" is a statistic, it exists, just a calculation. It's the reason for it where everyone seems to differ.

It's a statistic based on a flawed calculation - a calculation that invariably ensures there is in fact a Gender Pay Gap.

It's like me saying - 'The definitive calculation to determine the best AFL/VFL side in history is number of Grand Finals lost/years in the competition since 1959'.

It's conclusive - Collingwood are the best AFL/VFL team in the history of the game by the length of the Flemington straight!

 

[Fadge]

Which calculation used is also a point of discussion

Gender pay gap guide

Learn about the gender pay gap, the key contributing factors and our recommended indicators

www.abs.gov.au

The Gender Pay Gap as published by the WGEA is the one that gets all the airplay.

 

[the_interloper]

It's a statistic based on a flawed calculation - a calculation that invariably ensures there is in fact a Gender Pay Gap.

It's like me saying - 'The definitive calculation to determine the best AFL/VFL side in history is number of Grand Finals lost/years in the competition since 1959'.

It's conclusive - Collingwood are the best AFL/VFL team in the history of the game by the length of the Flemington straight!

I’ve said it before, it’s like looking at incarceration rate of non whites and concluding that black people are worse than white people. Clearly worth looking at the many (very valid) reasons for this rather than the raw stats.

 

[owen87]

The Gender Pay Gap as published by the WGEA is the one that gets all the airplay.

What is the gender pay gap? | WGEA

www.wgea.gov.au

They report multiple calculations, but they prefer to use their version.

 

[Seeds]

I'm pretty sure that super is one of the things taken into consideration when calculating the gender pay gap. I'm mid 50s and my wife is early 50s, her super is around 12 - 14% of what mine is. We're really trying to start now pumping more into hers. We'll be happy if we can get hers up enough to pay for a nice caravan and suitable tow vehicle for when we retire.

In my last role before leaving WA, I worked side by side with a woman who was on $40k per year more than me doing the exact same job. She originally worked in a role that was contracted to BHP. When BHP took the role back inhouse, they kept her and she kept her pay rate. When I found out about it I hit the roof, management promised me they would bring me up level with her but they couldn't do it in one hit, it would be 5% per year for 5 years. We hadn't been getting pay rises for years anyway so I was half happy with it. First year I got the 5% and then for the next 2 years I got nothing, in the end, it was probably the biggest factor in me quitting, even more so than the COVID border closures. Imagine working next to someone, working blow for blow and they're getting $800 per week more than you? I never blamed her, I knew it wasn't her fault but it certainly left a sour taste in my mouth. campaigners.

But super is cumalative over time. Pay gap is an outcome at a point in time. They are completely incomparable as the former is a function of time worked while the latter is not.

bhp are quite open about discrimination against men in employment. Its a plain violation of basic human rights.