Society/Culture The Gender Pay Gap

[Scotland]

Equal work exists in the context of award rates, collective agreements etc.

If you're a level 1 team member at Coles you get paid the same as however many thousand other level 1 team members there are, unless you are under 20.

That's a different proposition to a job that has individual contracts at rates of pay above any applicable award. In my experience people who don't want to leave their comfort zone tend to get paid a bit less.

 

[dumb]

many of the statistics on pay gaps are gathered internally across a particular organisation, and don't include an individual's earnings outside of that organisation. for example, other jobs, small businesses, being a landlord, etc etc.
doesn't necessarily paint a better picture for women though and points at the workforce casualisation.

 

[the_interloper]

How Australia is failing its highly educated women

Australian women are among the most educated in the world. Why are they still so far behind when it comes to pay and opportunity?

www.smh.com.au

Was interested in one part of this article where it's claimed "Women are now dominating the better-paid professional university degrees". I've read arguments made about how women are more highly represented in degrees overall but I always figured they were for the lower paid jobs, interesting if there are stats to back this up.

And obviously this ignores all of the trades that more men tend to do and get well paid for it of course.

 

[Fadge]

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/the-message-is-clear-women-are-not-part-of-australias-fair-go/news-story/c8dafc70fdc59843ac940f60052c6c77

Oh my, the misinformation continues...

 

[Gethelred]

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/the-message-is-clear-women-are-not-part-of-australias-fair-go/news-story/c8dafc70fdc59843ac940f60052c6c77

Oh my, the misinformation continues...

This forum has misinformation rules, so I'm interested.

What specifically is misinformation here, Fadge?

 

[Fadge]

This forum has misinformation rules, so I'm interested.

What specifically is misinformation here, Fadge?

The entire article.

 

[Gethelred]

The entire article.

Use your words.

How is the entire article misinformation, specifically?

 

[Fadge]

Use your words.

How is the entire article misinformation, specifically?

It is unlawful to pay men and women differently for doing the same job, and has been for decades.

Women do not get paid less than a man for doing the same job simply because they are a woman.

Different vocations attract different salaries and generally the harder and longer people work, the more they are rewarded for it, regardless of gender.

It is that simple.

And that's not to mention the reluctance of the WGEA to include non-binary genders into their analysis.

 

[Gethelred]

It is unlawful to pay men and women differently for doing the same job, and has been for decades.

Women do not get paid less than a man for doing the same job simply because they are a woman.

Different vocations attract different salaries and generally the harder and longer people work, the more they are rewarded for it, regardless of gender.

It is that simple.

You are arguing with things the article uses statistics to demonstrate, without showing how those demonstrations are incorrect or using statistics of your own to demonstrate why they're wrong.

And that's not to mention the reluctance of the WGEA to include non-binary genders into their analysis.

Let's keep this particular discussion firmly where it started, shall we?

 

[Fadge]

You are arguing with things the article uses statistics to demonstrate, without showing how those demonstrations are incorrect or using statistics of your own to demonstrate why they're wrong.

OK.

Let's keep this particular discussion firmly where it started, shall we?

So when is it important to include non-binary gendered persons, and when can we exclude them?

I would have thought when analysing pay patterns amongst the varying genders, it would be important to consider non-binary?

 

[Gethelred]

OK.

So when is it important to include non-binary gendered persons, and when can we exclude them?

I would have thought when analysing pay patterns amongst the varying genders, it would be important to consider non-binary?

The subject of this thread is the gender pay gap, specifically the male/female difference as this thread was split away from the main Feminism thread. It is not another avenue for you to attack trans people.

Have a good look at the updated board rules, Fadge, before continuing.

 

[Gethelred]

You can WOW react all you like, Fadge. You were banned from the transgender thread for being a troll, and if you continue to try and run this thread aground on the same topic you'll find yourself threadbanned from this one as well, if not also receiving an infraction to boot.

 

[Fadge]

You can WOW react all you like, Fadge. You were banned from the transgender thread for being a troll, and if you continue to try and run this thread aground on the same topic you'll find yourself threadbanned from this one as well, if not also receiving an infraction to boot.

Sure, so calling out a flaw in how the WGEA assess the Gender Pay Gap due to their exclusion of non-binary is 'trolling' and I'm sure bigoted, in a thread called 'The Gender Pay Gap'.

I give up.

 

[Gethelred]

Sure, so calling out a flaw in how the WGEA assess the Gender Pay Gap due to their exclusion of non-binary is 'trolling' and I'm sure bigoted, in a thread called 'The Gender Pay Gap'.

I give up.

I'm telling you to stay on topic. This is not about your issues with nonbinary and trans people, this is about the gender wage gap. You started to have a crack in that direction, and you were told not to; this has nothing to do with what we were discussing, and everything to do with your habit of treating transgender people as though they don't exist.

That you gave up after a deliberate misrepresentation of how this interaction went tells me that you're trying to withdraw from this conversation. Your reasons for doing so are your own, but don't affect the pretense that wasn't what you were doing.

 

[Taylor]

If you have a hypothetical 500 women in law degrees and the average lawyer earns a hypothetical $150,000 a year then you should see women earning more - except you also need to ignore that in reality a significant number of these graduates aren't able to find work in that field due to over supply. So the average working income is quite high, but the actual average income is distorted.

The exact opposite of tradies currently in high demand.

 

[Gethelred]

If you have a hypothetical 500 women in law degrees and the average lawyer earns a hypothetical $150,000 a year then you should see women earning more - except you also need to ignore that in reality a significant number of these graduates aren't able to find work in that field due to over supply. So the average working income is quite high, but the actual average income is distorted.

The exact opposite of tradies currently in high demand.

Law degrees are the new Arts degrees, after all.

 

[Fadge]

I'm telling you to stay on topic. This is not about your issues with nonbinary and trans people, this is about the gender wage gap. You started to have a crack in that direction, and you were told not to; this has nothing to do with what we were discussing, and everything to do with your habit of treating transgender people as though they don't exist.

That you gave up after a deliberate misrepresentation of how this interaction went tells me that you're trying to withdraw from this conversation. Your reasons for doing so are your own, but don't affect the pretense that wasn't what you were doing.

For the record I have absolutely no issue with non-binary and trans people, nor have I ever treated transgender persons as though they don't exist.

The end.

 

[Taylor]

Law degrees are the new Arts degrees, after all.

They are the university course of choice for the people who were good at English, but didn't carry the mental health issues that would otherwise have directed them towards psychology.

They've been in oversupply since before I went to university, the pressure on my generation to "go to uni" as a mark of achievement results in things like this.

 

[Taylor]

Nursing also distorts the earnings stats for tertiary educated women, since the stats tend to group all registered nurses as being university graduates (a significant number were from nursing schools prior to the movement of that study into a university) and then the nursing pay being subject to the previous level of study.

 

[Gethelred]

They are the university course of choice for the people who were good at English, but didn't carry the mental health issues that would otherwise have directed them towards psychology.

They've been in oversupply since before I went to university, the pressure on my generation to "go to uni" as a mark of achievement results in things like this.

What I meant was that once upon a time the university education was what was prized, where law was put on a pedestal; now, everyone's been except those who went straight into a trade, and law has become the new ubiquitous qualification.

I agree with you. Everyone's studied law.

 

[quotemokc]

What about overtime?

Wouldn't be surprised to see men doing way more overtime than women and this won't be factored in to the 'wage gap'

 

[Taylor]

What about overtime?

Wouldn't be surprised to see men doing way more overtime than women and this won't be factored in to the 'wage gap'

You have to ignore hours worked.

 

[Fadge]

What about overtime?

Wouldn't be surprised to see men doing way more overtime than women and this won't be factored in to the 'wage gap'

If productive hours were considered, the reported wage gap would be considerably reduced.

That wouldn't be a good result.

 

[Fadge]

I particularly liked the advice in the article I posted whereby men should ask women in equivalent positions what they were being paid.

I don't know about anyone else, but in professional working environments we never discuss one another's salaries.

And what if I did ask a female equivalent and discovered she was getting paid more than me? Or is that not possible?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

I don't know about anyone else, but in professional working environments we never discuss one another's salaries.

You should. You get told it's rude to talk about it because your boss doesn't want you to know if you're getting underpaid. Classic stitch up.

And what if I did ask a female equivalent and discovered she was getting paid more than me? Or is that not possible?

Absolutely it's possible. And if you find out that's the case you should also ask for a raise or start looking for a better gig. No sense in letting someone take advantage of you.