Boxing The General Boxing Discussion Thread

[the_interloper]

Another sad chapter in the history of heavyweight boxing today. Klitschko beat Solin in a very "Paul Briggs" type fight. Got a tap to the head, rolled his ankle and the fight was over. Crowd was in uproar. A disgrace of a fight really

I immediately thought of Briggs-Green when it happened, shithouse. He either took that knee injury into the fight or took a dive, either way i'm sure he's a couple million better off. I don't know much about Solin but apparently his heart hasn't really been in boxing and he may have just been looking for tthe payday. Shame, he landed a couple in the fight, was looking ok until the "ko".

And just a few hours later there was a great UFC card with a new star emerging, no wonder the UFC is taking so many boxing fans (like me).

 

[cannons]

Call me crazy, but that looked like a genuine knee injury to me.

Although the shot was soft, I think it caught him right on the temple. As a result, it wobbled him, he lost control of his legs and that caused him to fall in an extremely awkward manner which, in my view, was the catalyst for the knee injury.

Have a look at the tape, that knee ends up in a seriously unnatural position just as he's about to do down.

 

[Power King]

Yeah, sometimes Katsidis just seems to come forward wildly with his hands out to the side, so in some ways, it's questionable as to whether he even uses a defensive guard in those moments. Even so, it would be great to see him get a payday against Floyd, as he's the kind of fighter everyone respects.

As for analysis of records, well, I'll start with Floyd and do Manny later, but Power king's comments are a pretty good summary for Pac.

On Floyd, well, the problem I have is that I see no amazing wins on that record. Aside from maybe De La Hoya, who was largely inactive and 34 when he fought Floyd, I don't see anywhere on his record where he has beaten a genuine star in his prime.

I mean, he's beaten a lot of solid to very good fighters in Baldomir, Judah, Corrales, Hatton and Castillo, but whenever those guys have taken the step up to fight a star, they have invariably lost. As such, I don't consider any of them to be stars. Now, you've also got guys like Marquez, who admittedly troubled Pac, and Shane Mosley, who was undoubtedly a star in his prime. The problem is that Floyd fought neither whilst in their prime, and in the case of Marquez, he made him come up about two divisions higher than he's comfortable with whilst, of course, failing to make weight himself.

Moreover, let's not forget that his first fight against Castillo involved a very dubious decision to see him take the win. If not for that, Floyd would have a loss on his record and it would make it very difficult to mount a case for him as being on of the greats, considering the opposition that he has faced. Further to that, the fights that he has in common with Pac that took place at similar times illustrate that Manny made it look easier than Floyd did. Floyd struggled with De La Hoya after saying he would massacre him, whilst Pac actually did masscare him. Floyd had issues with Hatton for the first 5 or so rounds, Manny had finished the fight within two rounds.

He's also ducked the greatest fighter of this generation, as well as many others who may have posed a threat, such as a prime Mosley, Margarito and Cotto.

With all of this in mind, I just don't see how he can claim he's the greatest of all time. His record is a very good one, but it lacks wins against prime superstars, and for that reason, I just don't see the greatness in his record. If, and it's a very big if, he agrees to fight and subsequently wins against Manny, then perhaps you can start to mount a case for him to be considered an all-time great, but at this point, I just don't see it.



Yeah, I agree with what you're saying, and when you consider that one of his early losses by KO was the result of a definite low-blow, I think it's clear that his record is better than that of Mayweather.

Here's the low-blow KO, by the way, can't believe the ref missed it.

[youtube]-nc4SPltHhE[/youtube]

It is surprising the way he looks dazed. You can tell when a fighter has been hurt to the body or even by a low blow, but Pacquiao looks like he just copped a good cross to the head there. Weird.

Still, even though he's technically a professional in this bout and hence it adds to his record, he is 17 years old in this fight. How significant is the fight, really? Genuinely interested in what you think.

I agree with what you say about Mayweather and his record, however in his defence, at the end of the day he's still a good fighter. That defence is ridiculous and I believe he could mix and match it with the best in the world, however it's all dribble until you get in the ring and prove it.

If I could watch any fight in the world as a neutral, it would have to be any of the following fighting each other - Cotto/Margarito/Mayweather. Cotto and Margarito because of their history, and Cotto-Mayweather and Margarito-Mayweather because of the styles make fights view. A lot of people think Margarito is overrated and doesn't deserve big pay cheques, but this guy has one of the toughest chins in the modern era, keeps bringing it no matter how much punishment he takes, and is also a very strong puncher. His speed may get shown up against Mayweather's reflexes, but the fact that Mayweather isn't the most powerful puncher out there and Margarito can cop anything would make it very interesting.

 

[Furn]

Call me crazy, but that looked like a genuine knee injury to me.

Although the shot was soft, I think it caught him right on the temple. As a result, it wobbled him, he lost control of his legs and that caused him to fall in an extremely awkward manner which, in my view, was the catalyst for the knee injury.

Have a look at the tape, that knee ends up in a seriously unnatural position just as he's about to do down.

Yeh apparently he has torn his ACL so it seems like it was just genuine bad luck. I thought he was winning the round up til then too. Might have been a decent fight.

On a different note, did anyone see on foxsports news active they had a headline saying " Mayweather to fight Pacquiao"

Then when you press the button for more info it says "in court" and goes on about the court case.

Was so pissed off.

 

[Power King]

Roger Mayweather told the press that Floyd won't fight Manny unless Floyd gets $100 million. Blatant ducking now. Talk about pricing your way out of a fight.

 

[Arsene Wenger]

Yeh apparently he has torn his ACL so it seems like it was just genuine bad luck. I thought he was winning the round up til then too. Might have been a decent fight.

On a different note, did anyone see on foxsports news active they had a headline saying " Mayweather to fight Pacquiao"

Then when you press the button for more info it says "in court" and goes on about the court case.

Was so pissed off.

Youre not wrong - bloody Journos

 

[Power King]

Since this is a general discussion thread, let's bring up the past.

Go back to the 80's and hagler, hearns, ray and duran were the big four.

I'm interested in what people thought of leonard as a boxer and where he stands when it comes to the history books? When i watch his fights, sometimes I can't stand him (the best athletes are always hated), but most of the time I can't help but admire his ability.

 

[Mr Gor]

What it is you can't stand about him?

 

[Power King]

What it is you can't stand about him?

I guess because he was looked at as the boss playa of the four that I often find myself supporting the underdogs (especially Duran and Hagler). Also seemed a bit cocky in a condescending manner. At the end of the day though, to be a superstar of a sport you have to have that sort of confidence, and the contempt that is generated by opposition fans (like myself) is often a testament to just how good an athlete that person is.

If you've got 25 minutes to spare, check out this doco:

[youtube]aZ2nLAwR8Oc[/youtube]

[youtube]4Iuq2m4dW-E[/youtube]

[youtube]xZyUovjJrpc[/youtube]

 

[Mr Gor]

^^ Will watch when I can

Seeing as it's a general boxing thread, some might be interested in some of April's upcoming fights.

 

[cannons]

We've definitely got some great fights coming up in April. It will be particularly interesting to see how Berto goes against Ortiz, as I think Victor is a pretty good fighter who suffers from significant lapses in concentration, and although most rate Berto pretty highly, I'm yet to really see what all of the fuss is about. With that in mind, I think it has the makings of a very entertaining fight.

I also think that Pacquiao's lawsuit against Mayweather, his camp and ODLH will net him millions, as those clowns have made so many baseless comments it's ridiculous, and they also apparently lied to some journalist about the Pacquiao camp sending them emails asking if they could sweep it under the carpet if Manny tested positive.

I wonder what they'll do if Floyd Snr. has to give evidence, surely they'll need an interpreter of some sort

 

[Power King]

Freddie vs Floyd = classic

[youtube]okdT5Eef-pc[/youtube]
5:50 onwards

Roach is a gun

 

[cannons]

Yeah, Roach is always good with his trashtalk, and Floyd is also pretty amusing due to the fact that he struggles to put a sentence together.

On a side note, any of you playing Fight Night Champion?

I am and I'm enjoying it, particularly since the patch came out.

 

[Mr Gor]

Yeah I've been on fight night for a while! Which system you on? I liked the patch but all 3 fights I played since were filled with cheese. All of em did that constant jab to the body crap!! I beat two of em but the third guy had maxed out his hooks so that any time I got close he just stunned me. Struggling to find fun fights.

About to watch the above doco

EDIT: I can see why people might dislike Leonard, but coming from a guy who's favourite boxer is the most outrageous show-boater and entertainer it's hard for me to see it the same way

Really tough break for Marvin, but that's boxing, and boxing can suck like that. There's still judges around who score rounds based on the last 30 seconds, and there's always the "prospects" who are babied throughout their career just because they've got the right people behind them. Massive shame that he took it to heart and didn't return to the ring

 

[the_interloper]

Is everyone watching the Katsidis fight this weekend? He did get outclassed against Marquez but fought with a lot of ticker, wouldnt have lost any fans with that performance. Another tough opponent in Guerrero and i'm sure it will be an exciting stoush!

 

[Mr Gor]

Hell yeah I made a thread for it, will most likely get in there on the day for discussion

I WON'T MISS THIS ONE

 

[cannons]

Yeah I've been on fight night for a while! Which system you on? I liked the patch but all 3 fights I played since were filled with cheese. All of em did that constant jab to the body crap!! I beat two of em but the third guy had maxed out his hooks so that any time I got close he just stunned me. Struggling to find fun fights.

About to watch the above doco

EDIT: I can see why people might dislike Leonard, but coming from a guy who's favourite boxer is the most outrageous show-boater and entertainer it's hard for me to see it the same way

Really tough break for Marvin, but that's boxing, and boxing can suck like that. There's still judges around who score rounds based on the last 30 seconds, and there's always the "prospects" who are babied throughout their career just because they've got the right people behind them. Massive shame that he took it to heart and didn't return to the ring

I'm on the PS3. I haven't played online at all yet (will have to test it out soon), but yeah, I've read a bit about the jab to the body exploit. It's a shame, because I think the patch has made the game a fair bit more realistic, for the most part anyway.

Also watched that doco, and yeah, I can see why some wouldn't be fans of Leonard, but I really have no issue with showboating, I only have issues with boxers who either fight dirty or are genuinely pathetic human beings.

Will definitely be watching the Katsidis fight, but let's not forget about the other Aussie blockbuster we've got coming up:

[YOUTUBE]MJnh4KYEXi0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Mr Gor]

hahahahahahhaha

I heard about that ad. It was actually more well done that I thought it would be. Interesting twist to put on it.

I'm on the xbox so that sucks. The worst thing about online is the connections because there aren't many aussies on there, and being a game based so heavily on reflexes and timing, a laggy connection makes it almost unplayable. Ah well

 

[cannons]

Yeah, would've been good to get a few games in against you.

I can definitely see lag being a problem online, though, especially when you consider that the game has mini-freeze moments even when playing offline. Couple that with a poor connection, and it would be pretty much, as you said, unplayable.

Had a good bout against my bro just then, used my created Hasegawa to coast to a decision. Speaking of Hasegawa, he's in action again tomorrow night (I think) against Jhonny Gonzalez. I'll probably have to find a replay, as a stream will be tough to track down, but it's always fun watching him fight in any case.

 

[cannons]

Hasegawa lost

It was very similar to his loss against Montiel, dominating and then took a massive shot and that was the end of it. I guess the fact that he's a vulnerable champion makes him so viewer friendly, but I'm still kind of annoyed that he couldn't get the win.

In any case, it was a great card, Nishioka and Aoh are both great fighters.

In other news, Floyd was apparently offered $50 million (US) in the most recent round of negotiations and refused it. He obviously doesn't want the fight, and it will take something miraculous or a sudden moment of clarity for it to happen.

Oh, and is Danny Green actually fighting a 42 year old Antonio Tarver? What a joke.

 

[blblues]

It's a shame Hasegawa has a couple of losses on his record now, a highly entertaining young fighter who I saw going on to bigger and better things. Hope he can turn things around and get some wins against the better fighters.

Yeah I can't believe Danny is going to fight Tarver. After the Flores fight I was beginning to think that he might start stepping up and challenge the kings of the division. It's disgraceful that both Tarver and RJJ will look back on their careers and have losses to Danny Green.

Looking a bit closer to home, What does everyone think of Will Tomlinson? Quality young fighter, who had a win on Friday night and is currently 16-0.

I hope Kats can get a win tomorrow against a very even opponent. I honestly fear for what Maidana will do to Morales

 

[blblues]

Really looking forward to Daniel Geale's world title fight in Germany against IBF champ Sebastian Sylvester. Will be up against te odds in Germany but I would love to see this bloke bring home a world title. Geale is a very humble young fighter who works hard and doesn't talk himself up to te media like other well known Aussie fighters.

Billy Dib is in negotiations with Miguel Garcia about a possible IBF world title belt that was stripped from Gamboa. Dib hasn't really fought anyone of world quality lately and will not be able to step up against a legitimate contender. All the best to him but I think he will be outclassed.

 

[blblues]

Sounds like Kats was completely dominated in his fight. Love the blokes heart and desire however lacks genuine boxing skills to compete with the more talented fighters, too often relies on a knockout.

Morales lost a majority decision. Sounds like it was a highly competitive fight. The bloke is a true Mexican warrior, I honestly felt he would be knocked out in devastating fashion.

 

[Mr Gor]

Yeah it was a massive surprise. It looked to be heading that way early, with Maidana rushing in straight away to try and land the big punches, but Morales defence and resiliance allowed him to battle through and he controlled the middle rounds. He even hurt Maidana with a sweet left hook. Me and the rest of the guys in the little chat thing had it a draw, there weren't many tight rounds so the judges who scored it 116-112 for Maidana were clearly not watching the same fight (or were just scoring for the guy coming forward). Massive props to Morales though, he took some big punches and shook em off.

However, was this a great showing from Morales whom everyone had written off? Or does this say something about Maidana and, consequently, Khan?

I wouldn't say that Katsidis was dominated. He was outmatched stylistically and Guerrero was at his best. He should've unloaded that vicious body attack earlier.

In regards to the earlier posts: got link to the Hasegawa fight? I wouldn't mind watching it.

Was Tomlinson the guy who ko'd some cocky American on the undercard of Green/RJJ? If so, good on him! I liked what I saw from the guy and he definitely handed out a well deserved beating on that night.

Billy Dib: can get ****ed. I hate the guy.

 

[Power King]

Just because Khan beat Maidana doesn't mean that Khan would beat Morales.

Cliche - styles make fights.

How was Morales going in the last few rounds?