news The General MMA & Combat Sports Discussion Thread

[phantom13]

Izzy wasnt even looking at Periera anymore, he was out on his feet.

Did you see his explanation on Helwani?

 

[Topkent]

Did you see his explanation on Helwani?

No if you wanna tldr it go ahead but I'm not wasting 45 mins on Izzy excuses.

 

[phantom13]

No if you wanna tldr it go ahead but I'm not wasting 45 mins on Izzy excuses.

… he actually didn’t make any. I’m not trying to convince you or anyone else here but I thought it made sense. Basically said he was rocked but was watching feet and hips and trying to stay active to recover, as soon as the fight was called he popped up to say he was fine. He didn’t criticize the stoppage, said Goddard is a great ref but felt like he deserved more time, also made the point that Goddard reffed the Gastelum fight and didn’t stop it after Kelvin was knocked down 4 times.

It’s hard to criticize the stoppage and it’s likely one more well placed shot drops Izzy but I personally thought it was a bit early to be calling it in the fifth when Izzy was almost certainly up on the cards.

 

[Topkent]

The only thing that was early about it was Izzy got to walk out of the ring instead of being carried out. If there's a boxing coach on earth that tells me that defending with your head down swaying side to side is proper technique then I'll retract but it's not.

Izzy has never defended against the fence like that before, I'm not sure how watching the hips helps when Alexs hook can shut you off with very little loading

 

[phantom13]

The only thing that was early about it was Izzy got to walk out of the ring instead of being carried out. If there's a boxing coach on earth that tells me that defending with your head down swaying side to side is proper technique then I'll retract but it's not.

Izzy has never defended against the fence like that before, I'm not sure how watching the hips helps when Alexs hook can shut you off with very little loading

Izzy fights to his own technique quite a bit of the time.

Again, doubt anyone would argue it was a “bad” stoppage but if he tells us he was okay and he literally popped straight up when Goddard stepped in and has been pretty humble in defeat then I think he can be believed. You don’t and that’s fair enough.

 

[Quivorir]

A knee was seconds away from knocking Izzys head off I reckon. It was a good stoppage IMO.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

I can see both sides of the discussion regarding whether it was an early stoppage.

It looked like Israel was about five or ten seconds away from getting dropped.

The thing is, we will never know, and some might say this is a good thing, because if he did get knocked out, it would mean he suffered unnecessary damage.

On the other hand, he didn't even get knocked down. How can you know he was about to get knocked out?

In the Helwani interview he didn't make any excuses, or claim that he was about to spring up and win the fight.

His point was, as phantom explained earlier, that he was still lucid and still working to a makeshift plan, even if it didn't look like it.

Seriously, I do get the hate for Israel, I used to be a hater as well.

But I listened to the guy, especially after the Jan and now the Alex losses, and I have humbly changed my mind.

 

[phantom13]

Yeh I’m certainly not arguing it was a bad stoppage but if you listen to Izzys explanation (not excuse) I think he makes a fair point. The fact he literally pops his head up as soon as Goddard waved it off and the fact he’s still moving and never got dropped makes me think he has fair reason to not be thrilled with it.

It happened, we all move on (as has he).

 

[norway blue]

Izzy was up on the cards but he got knocked the frig out in that last 9punch onslaught by Alex .


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[Topkent]

 

[Topkent]

The bloke falls over and stops defending himself. It's as clear as any stoppage

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

 

[phantom13]

The bloke falls over and stops defending himself. It's as clear as any stoppage

Yeh, again, nobody is saying bad stoppage but he absolutely doesn’t fall over, he’s still on his feet and watching the stuff you just posted he slips the second last punch (more by luck than design to be fair). He’s obviously rocked, he said that himself but he doesn’t get knocked down and as soon as Goddard steps in he stands bolt upright to protest the stoppage very clearly lucid.

I can’t be much clearer in saying it’s not a bad stoppage personally I think given the circumstances (5th round of a title defense that he’s winning) you can wait for him to go down (which he probably does from the next shot).

In addition, if you wanna listen to his thoughts (clearly you don’t) he says something very similar. He accepts the loss, he’s acknowledged he got rocked but he notes how he was trying to recover, still moved and was never out.

Bad stoppage, no absolutely not. Tiny bit early given the circumstances, me and Izzy (and a couple of others in this thread) think so.

 

[Topkent]

Yeh, again, nobody is saying bad stoppage but he absolutely doesn’t fall over, he’s still on his feet and watching the stuff you just posted he slips the second last punch (more by luck than design to be fair). He’s obviously rocked, he said that himself but he doesn’t get knocked down and as soon as Goddard steps in he stands bolt upright to protest the stoppage very clearly lucid.

He literally stumbles over and goes down on his hand, gets up and doesn't return fire. Goddard tells him to fight back he doesn't. Izzy's explanation is irrelevant, to me he's completely cooked there and he's lucky he was saved

 

[phantom13]

He literally stumbles over and goes down on his hand, gets up and doesn't return fire. Goddard tells him to fight back he doesn't. Izzy's explanation is irrelevant, to me he's completely cooked there and he's lucky he was saved

Fair, I think it’s reasonable to give him a bit more time. I’m not even sure the stumble is considered a knock down?

I’m fine with others saying it’s a good stoppage, I’m not even really arguing against that, Izzy said he wanted longer and his explanation isn’t just “I was fine” he accepts the position and that the stoppage is reasonable but (rightly imo) wanted some more time. Given the way he pops up after the stoppage he was recovering as this was happening.

Every chance he takes another shot and goes down but there’s also a reasonable suggestion that he grabs a clinch and recovers. 5th round of a title fight he’s winning I can see his point.

 

[Dan]

Interestingly that stumble to the ground didn't count as a knock down on the stats sheet. It's easy to point out after the fact in the cheap seats but Goddard gave Izzy every chance and instead trying to clinch or continue moving after the knockdown (that didn't count) his head and arms were down whilst Pereira was tee'ing off.

Izzy had his chance to improve his position and Goddard prevented unnecessary extra damage.

That's the best stoppage you can get from that situation.

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

Really good stoppage imo (not too early, not too late). Let it go any longer and the ref gets criticised for letting it go too long. Izzy took a barrage of shots in those final moments, and this is after about 23 minutes of fighting.

Izzy can take a well earned break. And he was pretty unlucky btw - another 10 seconds in the first and he retains.

 

[Topkent]

Fair, I think it’s reasonable to give him a bit more time. I’m not even sure the stumble is considered a knock down?

I’m fine with others saying it’s a good stoppage, I’m not even really arguing against that, Izzy said he wanted longer and his explanation isn’t just “I was fine” he accepts the position and that the stoppage is reasonable but (rightly imo) wanted some more time. Given the way he pops up after the stoppage he was recovering as this was happening.

Every chance he takes another shot and goes down but there’s also a reasonable suggestion that he grabs a clinch and recovers. 5th round of a title fight he’s winning I can see his point.

I don't think the stumble is a knockdown or should be, but it's a bad look. A healthy fighter isn't stumbling half over. IMO if that fight isn't stopped then there's no point stopping any fight unless the person's unconscious, it was akin to when Nunes was teeing off on Ronda

 

[phantom13]

I don't think the stumble is a knockdown or should be, but it's a bad look. A healthy fighter isn't stumbling half over. IMO if that fight isn't stopped then there's no point stopping any fight unless the person's unconscious, it was akin to when Nunes was teeing off on Ronda

Again, fair enough, I don’t really agree with you given the circumstances of the fight, nor did Izzy, that was really the only point I was making.

Most stoppages are somewhat subjective and as I’ve made the point numerous times, hardly anyone is going to argue this was a bad one (and I’m not) but I can see Izzy’s point. That’s all.

 

[phantom13]

Fwiw the other part of the point he made is that Goddard reffed him and Gastelum and Kelvin got knocked down 4 times without a stoppage.

Izzy will have 0 knockdowns counted in this but also loses via TKO.

I’m not sure how you can argue there is any consistency to that.

Again, it’s not a bad stoppage, not even Izzy is saying that but I can understand why he’s not thrilled with it.

 

[Topkent]

Fwiw the other part of the point he made is that Goddard reffed him and Gastelum and Kelvin got knocked down 4 times without a stoppage.

Izzy will have 0 knockdowns counted in this but also loses via TKO.

I’m not sure how you can argue there is any consistency to that.

Again, it’s not a bad stoppage, not even Izzy is saying that but I can understand why he’s not thrilled with it.

Because Kelvin fought back, I don't see the confusion. Kelvin went down but was immediately to a leg or was back up. Izzy got knocked down as well or atleast badly wobbled but he defender himself.

He stopped defending himself, as to Izzy thinking it was early well no s**t, no fighters gonna say it was a good stoppage they are a fighter. It literally doesn't matter what he thinks. Alistair overeem would think it was stopped early in the Ngannou fight

It's completely on him, if he was so fine he should have kept either his hands or eyes up and he'd be allowed to continue. He didn't. Throw one punch and he probably continues, he didn't.

 

[phantom13]

Because Kelvin fought back, I don't see the confusion. Kelvin went down but was immediately to a leg or was back up. Izzy got knocked down as well or atleast badly wobbled but he defender himself.

He stopped defending himself, as to Izzy thinking it was early well no s**t, no fighters gonna say it was a good stoppage they are a fighter. It literally doesn't matter what he thinks. Alistair overeem would think it was stopped early in the Ngannou fight

It's completely on him, if he was so fine he should have kept either his hands or eyes up and he'd be allowed to continue. He didn't. Throw one punch and he probably continues, he didn't.

Kelvin didn’t have a 5 second period of being on dream street? I remember thinking they probably should have stopped that fight but they didn’t just as I know watching this I thought it was a touch early.

I’m not even really arguing against the stoppage, purely saying Izzy made a fairly reasonable point about why he thought it was early but also accepts what happens, you’re making out like me and Izzy are calling for Goddardz head and that’s just not the case.

Agree to disagree, it’s subjective and it’s a pointless back and forth now anyway.

 

[Topkent]

Kelvin didn’t have a 5 second period of being on dream street? I remember thinking they probably should have stopped that fight but they didn’t just as I know watching this I thought it was a touch early.

I’m not even really arguing against the stoppage, purely saying Izzy made a fairly reasonable point about why he thought it was early but also accepts what happens, you’re making out like me and Izzy are calling for Goddardz head and that’s just not the case.

Agree to disagree, it’s subjective and it’s a pointless back and forth now anyway.

Yeah but mate you're saying Izzy thought it was early, my point is that in that case any fighter who's isn't unconscious could argue it's early. Whats the point of the ref then

 

[phantom13]

Yeah but mate you're saying Izzy thought it was early, my point is that in that case any fighter who's isn't unconscious could argue it's early. Whats the point of the ref then

I mean, I’d rather hear the former world champs thoughts on the fight than yours. He was asked about it in an interview and gave what I thought was a pretty insightful response. Given he’s the guy doing it it warrants consideration. It’s very easy for you and I to speculate what he was doing or feeling in the moment, he can just tell us and given he didn’t carry on like a dickhead about being robbed etc. it has some weight.

I’m also not arguing that he’s right just that he’s articulate, reasonable and made some pretty fair points. This isn’t someone who got absolutely starched after getting their ass handed to them for 3 straight rounds arguing about “going out on their sword” this is a guy who was almost certainly was winning the fight, nearly KOd his opponent in the first and got caught at the end saying “I don’t think I was completely done, here’s what I was doing and here’s a few points why I would have liked some more time but also Marc’s great and I get it”.

You don’t even want to listen to it so ultimately any discussion with you on what Izzy thought (which was what I originally responded to) isn’t gonna have much insight.

 

[Topkent]

I mean, I’d rather hear the former world champs thoughts on the fight than yours. He was asked about it in an interview and gave what I thought was a pretty insightful response. Given he’s the guy doing it it warrants consideration. It’s very easy for you and I to speculate what he was doing or feeling in the moment, he can just tell us and given he didn’t carry on like a dickhead about being robbed etc. it has some weight.

I’m also not arguing that he’s right just that he’s articulate, reasonable and made some pretty fair points. This isn’t someone who got absolutely starched after getting their ass handed to them for 3 straight rounds arguing about “going out on their sword” this is a guy who was almost certainly was winning the fight, nearly KOd his opponent in the first and got caught at the end saying “I don’t think I was completely done, here’s what I was doing and here’s a few points why I would have liked some more time but also Marc’s great and I get it”.

You don’t even want to listen to it so ultimately any discussion with you on what Izzy thought (which was what I originally responded to) isn’t gonna have much insight.

Lol ok cause all fighters opinions are the most important. Just like Connor saying he was beating Khabib that must be truth.

Izzy would have said it was a great stoppage if the shoe was on the other foot.