Politics The "Gig Economy" is bullshit

[kickazz]

This is a very good OP and its going to be interesting seeing where things develop.

I remember 'inventing uber' in my mind around 2005; I needed to get to the airport and while I waited for a taxi I lamented that it the trip itself was going to cost a huge chunk of my then student wages. There was a busy street full of cars, and I was thinking to myself that any one of them could be heading to the airport and could just give me a lift for $10. I didn't need a taxi, I just needed that exchange of information.

That's not quite how it has all evolved (yet), but it is in essence what the gig economy is. The only real service needed is the exchanging of information. Need a place to stay in Frankston Friday night? Ill have a free room then cause I'm heading down to Bonnie Doon, just chuck us $75 and you can crash.

In many ways this is kind of good; its certainly a way to make use of otherwise unused resources. Why put a second car on the freeway to the airport when there's an uber pool seat on a car already going there? Why build another hotel in Frankston when there's 200 rooms free in domiciles?

But there are costs, as the OP points out. The reality though is its inevitable; there will be more information avaliable online going forward, and privacy will continue to be traded for convenience. These are things that just cannot be stopped.

I'm sure we can put in regulations to protect us from the worst of it all, but it's inevitable that this sort of an economy will continue to grow and eventually take over. Entire industry sectors will probably fall by the wayside (real estate agents, I'm looking at you), but our economy would not compete globally if we still had fat collectors and ice delivery men riding through our neighbourhoods. We just have to try and make sure whatever is coming works for all classes as best it can.

Yeah, it's about efficient use of assets now, isn't it? The thing is, inefficiency creates employment. As we solve old inefficiencies, we need to find new things for workers to do. It seems not to be happening fast enough. We are moving on times where owning things is really the only way to make money

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

You know how you use webjet to find the best flights and then buy the actual tickets via the airline's site, in order to avoid the fees?

Do the same with uber eats or menulog. Use them to find what you want, then order directly from the restaurant. It's not that much harder and the place making nice food for you just might stay in business.

Yes, I'm starting a new job next Wefnesday, still in WA so I had to find myself flights from MLB to Perth return. I used Webjet, found what I wanted, went to book through them and noticed that they were going to charge me an extra $40 in fees. I went and booked straight off the Virgin site.

I have been doing fifo for the last 8 months and drive and park off site at Andrew's, they then drive me to the airport. $167 for 15 nights undercover parking. My 2nd last time parking there I booked using a booking agency because I could get Virgin points doing it that way. I checked my CC statement they charged me a nice little $20, international booking fee that I didn't see anywhere at the time of booking.

My new job requires me to fly at different times so I can ditch that now. From Phillip Island to the airport return, I can catch V/Line - SkyBus for $66 return and it's practically door to door.

No more driving home fatigued after catching the red-eye and being up for 26 hours. No more 2nd car required.

 

[Run n Spread]

I always found the introduction of Uber in Australia fascinating.

1. Uber could have approached government and established their business through traditional channels having regulations and laws amended and revised as required, yada yada yada; or
2. Uber could just operate how ever the hell they want and worry about the legality of what they were doing later.

Obviously they went with option 2. But this has exposed two massive problems in the system;

1. It highlights that it is practically impossible to implement something like Uber if you were forced to negotiate all of the regulatory obstacles.
2. It also highlight government are going to do sweet **** all to stop you even if you do completely ignore them.

This exactly. I couldn't agree more with the OP on one hand that this is being used to screw workers to the bottom. What was once a contract with mutual obligations is fast becoming a Master Slave relationship.

On the other hand thou if anyone wants to branch out it is basically impossible with all the red tape, bullshit laws and costs. No wonder someone like Uber came about. Although Uber in itself is not really to blame. All it is is like someone said above an info sharing app. I'm going to the airport who's driving?

Problem is the unlicensed operators who then build a business round this flouting labour laws. (If a mate wants a lift I say fine sling me $20 for petrol no worries. No different to anything in the past). But the delivery companies etc employing people round this model is dodgy as.

Also gig economy goes far beyond Uber.

 

[Run n Spread]

You know how you use webjet to find the best flights and then buy the actual tickets via the airline's site, in order to avoid the fees?

Do the same with uber eats or menulog. Use them to find what you want, then order directly from the restaurant. It's not that much harder and the place making nice food for you just might stay in business.

Do this all the time. You get a package that's on sale then just book your own flights, insurance, transfers, accommodation. Can come out cheaper especially if you book the slightly cheaper hotel down the street and the basic cover. (Having said that if it roughly works out to say a $20 fee I'll let a travel agent do it save me the hassle). Anything else or domestic I just do myself.

Another thing webjet/Flight Centre do also is say there is only one flight to and from say NZ or Bali on that day. When actually there is 5 or 6 but with stopovers if you're willing to be in transit an hour or 2.

 

[Fire]

There has been some study (will have to try and find it) around a certain type of person who works in tech, who just loves tech for the sake of tech, without really caring for the ethics of what they do, nor the real human impact, (be that ignoring the negative impact caused by disruption, or over valuing the positive impact by not understanding the real human benefit, just being obsessed with the technology).

Well yeah. A huge portion of technically minded people are on the spectum.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

This exactly. I couldn't agree more with the OP on one hand that this is being used to screw workers to the bottom. What was once a contract with mutual obligations is fast becoming a Master Slave relationship.

On the other hand thou if anyone wants to branch out it is basically impossible with all the red tape, bullshit laws and costs. No wonder someone like Uber came about. Although Uber in itself is not really to blame. All it is is like someone said above an info sharing app. I'm going to the airport who's driving?

Problem is the unlicensed operators who then build a business round this flouting labour laws. (If a mate wants a lift I say fine sling me $20 for petrol no worries. No different to anything in the past). But the delivery companies etc employing people round this model is dodgy as.

Also gig economy goes far beyond Uber.

When you leave Melbourne airport, there is a BP servo and McDonalds on the left as you drive out, it is absolutely packed every time I drive past it with Uber drivers.

 

[Run n Spread]

When you leave Melbourne airport, there is a BP servo and McDonalds on the left as you drive out, it is absolutely packed every time I drive past it with Uber drivers.

People undercutting taxis.

Actually watched some random show once (midnight sitcom) but on NYE a guy with a yellow car (who people mistook for a cab) went out and offered people lifts. made a thousand as no one could get a cab and he was cheaper. This is that situation come to life.

Hired one myself. As had to get to airport (from 130KM away) and rather than get a bus an ad went up that said for $55 I am making only 3 stops and will drive you direct. People ultimately go with the cheaper option and business props up accordingly. Not saying I agree with everything but it crops up time and time again and 99.99% people go for what is cheap.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Well yeah. A huge portion of technically minded people are on the spectum.

If it is a 'spectrum', aren't we ALL on it?

 

[mouncey2franklin]

As for the 'gig economy', I understand why some people are concerned that this is effectively the eating away of minimum working conditions.

Because it is. Quite blatantly so.

And yet people are signing up to ride scooters around the place, drive their car to pick up strangers, allow strangers to stay in their homes.

It is almost as though the red tape was getting in the way of people living life the way they wanted to live it.

If I want to work in a role with no 'benefits', who the hell are you to try to stop me? Where do you get off?

If I want to pay some dude to deliver me food, and I know he works a job with no 'benefits', so what?

Do I honestly care? No. He gets his money, I get my food, and we have nothing to do with each other ever again.

Everybody's happy, except the people who used to make money out of red tape.

 

[pugsville]

People undercutting taxis.

Actually watched some random show once (midnight sitcom) but on NYE a guy with a yellow car (who people mistook for a cab) went out and offered people lifts. made a thousand as no one could get a cab and he was cheaper. This is that situation come to life.

"Gypsy" Cabs they exist around Melbourne. mainly at super peak times. Seen mini vans doing the run from Remington to city cup day $30 a head.

of course it's illegal. Funny how corporation like Uber can break the law but individuals can get smashed,

 

[evo]

I always found the introduction of Uber in Australia fascinating.

1. Uber could have approached government and established their business through traditional channels having regulations and laws amended and revised as required, yada yada yada; or
2. Uber could just operate how ever the hell they want and worry about the legality of what they were doing later.

Obviously they went with option 2. But this has exposed two massive problems in the system;

1. It highlights that it is practically impossible to implement something like Uber if you were forced to negotiate all of the regulatory obstacles.
2. It also highlight government are going to do sweet **** all to stop you even if you do completely ignore them.

I've been driving Uber pretty much since it started.

Early in the piece when it was still 'illegal' I got busted at the airport by the Taxi Police (who even knew there was such a thing?)
They fined me $1900. I took the fine into Uber head office and they paid it for me without batting an eyelid. Apparemntly they were paying dozens of them every day.

 

[Fire]

If it is a 'spectrum', aren't we ALL on it?

 

[QuietB]

I've been driving Uber pretty much since it started.

Early in the piece when it was still 'illegal' I got busted at the airport by the Taxi Police (who even knew there was such a thing?)
They fined me $1900. I took the fine into Uber head office and they paid it for me without batting an eyelid. Apparemntly they were paying dozens of them every day.

That is interesting. Paying the fines would have been shitload cheaper than dealing with the government to legitimise the business. In the end Uber got everything they wanted.

 

[kickazz]

Everybody's happy, except the people who used to make money out of red tape.

And the restaurant that is barely getting by and has to pay extortion level amounts to stay competitive.

And the dude on his bike who had better not get sick, or wishes he got decent pay and conditions.

And that same dude who retires with no super.

 

[Bombermania]

And the restaurant that is barely getting by and has to pay extortion level amounts to stay competitive.

And the dude on his bike who had better not get sick, or wishes he got decent pay and conditions.

And that same dude who retires with no super.

Wages are not that high in restaurants, there is a bigger cost that is never discussed and that is the cost of rent.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Wages are not that high in restaurants, there is a bigger cost that is never discussed and that is the cost of rent.

And electricity

 

[Reynolds Number]

Wages are not that high in restaurants, there is a bigger cost that is never discussed and that is the cost of rent.

And the cost of maintenance to deal with health and safety "issues" according to government beaurecrats.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

I recently saw a post from Silent Alarm complaining about the conditions at Chemist Warehouse.

So I asked him, why are people working there if the conditions are so bad?

He asked me what kinds of jobs young people are supposed to be doing other than shitty retail.

I says to him, bro, I says to him, mate, why not the gig economy?

Learn some skills, pay some bills. Start on Fiverr and work your way up.

Why not?

 

[Silent Alarm]

I recently saw a post from Silent Alarm complaining about the conditions at Chemist Warehouse.

So I asked him, why are people working there if the conditions are so bad?

He asked me what kinds of jobs young people are supposed to be doing other than ****ty retail.

I says to him, bro, I says to him, mate, why not the gig economy?

Learn some skills, pay some bills. Start on Fiverr and work your way up.

Why not?

It's just not sustainable.

You can't sit here and whinge about the state of the economy and the future of the workforce. You have to be a survivor. Adapt or die.

But at the same time these jobs are inconsistent, there's a notable danger element (for you or the person 'hiring' you), you generally will have to travel and your rate can't really change depending on that, there's also only a finite amount of work and there will always be some backpacker willing to undercut you and do it cheaper.

Learning skills that will pay higher (let's say a computer technician) requires study and practical learning. If you're desperate and willing to go on these apps to make a few bucks, you generally won't have the time or resources to learn a skill that is in demand. And if you do end up getting something like that, it's a bit ****ed that you won't have the security of a weekly pay cheque or sick leave or a sense of financial security. No bank's going to give a home loan to a dude who does Airtasker. If it was so lucrative, you wouldn't have computer shops anymore because every bloke with 40 years experience would be doing it.

All of these apps are just like uber. The 'employees' can never get ahead and are still being reamed by the big business. The customer gets cheap prices but attached to that is an uncertainty on the quality of product.

I mean is an 18-year old girl working at Chemist Warehouse really going to start driving for Uber eats or going to strangers' houses to give them massages? C'mon bra.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

If you're desperate and willing to go on these apps to make a few bucks, you generally won't have the time or resources to learn a skill that is in demand.

Give me a break.

People are time rich these days. Time rich.

And they waste that time doing what?

How much time does the average lemming spend on facebook these days? It's into the hours, last I heard.

 

[Steinfreo]

Read Capitalist Realism by Mark Fisher (its only short like 100 pages), the economic and psychological issues associated with unreliable work conditions goes deep.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

For all the outcry about unfair practices from established businesses, the idea that there are any virgins in these sectors is absolutely ludicrous.

Hilarious to see wealthy taxi plate holders who'd happily sharecrop their cars out between 5-10 dirt poor foreign students, pay them below minimum wage and charge for fuel suddenly deeply concerned about how Uber treats their drivers.

 

[Pessimistic]

When you arrive at your airbnb and it doesnt exist, and you and your family are basically screwed. Get back to us.

It didnt happen to me, but nearly did (i smelled a rat, put the picture of the ‘spectacular villa’ in mykonos into google picture seach and found it was something different all together)

Consumer protections as well as employee protections are diminished

 

[Pessimistic]

There has been some study (will have to try and find it) around a certain type of person who works in tech, who just loves tech for the sake of tech, without really caring for the ethics of what they do, nor the real human impact, (be that ignoring the negative impact caused by disruption, or over valuing the positive impact by not understanding the real human benefit, just being obsessed with the technology).

I like technology, studied it and worked with it. But over the yearsy I've noticed that the stereotype is somewhat true: a lot of those nerds really had no people skills, probably didn't care too much for them. Just want to play with gadgets.

Government agencies put multinational tech companies who pay little tax in australia on the panel of companies their procurers must buy from.
Yet goverment agencies funds come from taxes. Its madness