Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

god or advanced entity?

  • god

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • advanced entity

    Votes: 21 60.0%

  • Total voters
    35
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Pie eyed

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Interesting hint about why Jews were expelled:
[Claudius was concerned with the spread of eastern mysteries within the city and searched for more Roman replacements. He emphasized the Eleusinian mysteries which had been practiced by so many during the Republic. He expelled foreign astrologers, and at the same time rehabilitated the old Roman soothsayers (known as haruspices) as a replacement. He was especially hard on Druidism, because of its incompatibility with the Roman state religion and its proselytizing activities.[citation needed]
It is also reported that at one time he expelled the Jews from Rome, probably because the Jews within the city caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus.[32] Claudius opposed proselytizing in any religion, even in those regions where he allowed natives to worship freely. The results of all these efforts were recognized even by Seneca, who has an ancient Latin god defend Claudius in his satire.]
How about a link to dialogues quoted in your posts?
 

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Bennett.

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If you're keen for debate then getting a hold of the facts is a great start.
Everything Roylion and others have posted regarding the historicy of the Jesus tale is easily available on the net.
I have posted in minute detail the actual evidence, the actual words of the key players, the facts as officially acknowledged by the Vatican, their own scholars, numerous unaffiliated experts in the field and the hard evidence for every aspect numerous times in this and numerous other threads on the exact subject down to linking to scans of the actual dead sea scrolls, accurate translations of said and a literally hundreds of links to relevant documents and records.

That you now wish to ask the question is fabulous but I've posted and reposted this inormation dozens of times, as have numerous others.

It is a simple task to spend a week, not posting what you believe, but researching the actaul facts.
Then come back and draw up the parametersof your debate.

I'm sick of being the called upon to disprove the unprovable by those too lazy to even get a decent grasp of their own beliefs.
They're not my beliefs and the onus is on the claimant to back their claims.

No, you have posted opinion pieces, slants, musings etc.
I have done a bit of study as well you know, and it is not too hard to
find answers that aren't coloured by any certain bent on things true.
But for you to say that I am not holding any facts whatsoever, is
in fact ironically wrong! Facts are facts and there will always be different ways of interpreting them.
I have tried to reply stating facts and asking questions myself. No more, no less,
so please stop the condescension and try reading things with both eyes open
and you will be able to see that I am merely answering points with counterpoints.
 

Bennett.

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I find it lol-worthy that all evidence for Jesus actual existence, let alone his holiness, is dependent on the perceived writing style and possible mood on the day he may or may not have offhandedly mentioned, not by name mind you, a person who may or may not be construed to be a man who possibly had something to do with a small, but otherwise un-noteworthy minor civil disturbance amongst a few jews, who may or may not have been of an unnamed sect which may possibly be construed to "Christians" of you squint from a distance, by an otherwise totally unremarkable minor Roman clerk.

Hollah!


What a massive stretch I see.

The problem is that people like yourself like to pull apart every detail
in the hope of finding some minutiae that may be erring, and in doing so
miss the total picture and complete collection of data that show the
things you're trying so hard to explain away. It's like trying to account
for every brush stroke and colour of the Mona Lisa and not stepping back
and seeing the complete work.
 

Bennett.

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How about a link to dialogues quoted in your posts?
Would al link help, or would it just open up the possibility
that it has been interpreted wrong, or misconstrued or some
kind of skulduggery at hand to make a political statement therefore
rendering it inaccurate?
 
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p[ie eyed,
Had a bad day did you? "I'm sick of being the called upon to disprove the unprovable by those too lazy to even get a decent grasp of their own beliefs."
The quote is from Mr W Ikipedia "Claudius". We're just chatting about whether historians wrote about a person.
Sir.
 

Pie eyed

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No, you have posted opinion pieces, slants, musings etc.
I have done a bit of study as well you know, and it is not too hard to
find answers that aren't coloured by any certain bent on things true.
But for you to say that I am not holding any facts whatsoever, is
in fact ironically wrong! Facts are facts and there will always be different ways of interpreting them.
I have tried to reply stating facts and asking questions myself. No more, no less,
so please stop the condescension and try reading things with both eyes open
and you will be able to see that I am merely answering points with counterpoints.
No. I have posted exactly what I have claimed.
Up to you to dredge through my posts, with links and references to every fact, dating back to 2007 if you want to debate their content.
You're the one new to this subject on BF.

How are those 25 posts going.;)
 

Bennett.

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No. I have posted exactly what I have claimed.
Up to you to dredge through my posts, with links and references to every fact, dating back to 2007 if you want to debate their content.
You're the one new to this subject on BF.

How are those 25 posts going.;)

Really? a measuring contest?
 

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see, one of the first things people need to realise is that the gospels in particular and books like the Acts are full of actual history and real people. There is no chance at all that Christianity would have survived 20 years after the crucifixion if it was easy to discredit or disprove! If it was pure mythology it would have been impossible to survive.
How is this in any way different to Scientology, Islam or Buddhism?
 
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is it unreasonable to believe that this religion would have grown so widely in such a short time if fallacies and discrepancies of its origins were being questioned?

It would not have been difficult for Tacitus to find fallacies if he had wanted to. He was a historian after all.
Cough Scientology Cough.

People believe anything. And it doesn't take much at all to get them going.
 
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I would also like to add that God did not place sin on people.
Err; yes he did. He must have. We are His creation remember.

God knew we would sin before he even thought about making us. (He's omniscient). Also (as he is omnipotent) he could quite simply have fixed that little bug and created us not to sin should He have so chosen.

He was well aware (before even he began making us) that we would sin, why we would sin, where it would happen, and exactly how often. He was also precisely aware of how to make us so we wouldn't (He knows everything, and can do anything).

God, in his infinite wisdom choose not to make us like that. He instead choose to make us so we could Sin (and knowing we would).

He also knew (before making us so we could go around doing all this Sinning he doesn't apparently like) that he would also 'have' to kill a whole lot of us in vengeance for a few thousand years as punishment for what we he created us to do, and that he would have to send his own Son down to earth to get tortured, and that we would go on sinning anyways.

You look at it any other way and either God didn't know we were going to Sin when he made us (hes not omniscient) or he lacked the ability to create us with the ability not to sin (he's not omnipotent).

Next time you Sin remember - God knew you were going to do it before you did it, and he made you that way.

Really, there was nothing you could have done about it at all.
 

bombermick

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If Christianity (or most religions) is true its followers have to be monsters. Who could sit in eternal bliss, while their unbelieving husband/wife/son/friend etc was burning in hell, having their privates attended to by a friendly demon?
 

Pie eyed

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The problem is that people like yourself like to pull apart every detail
in the hope of finding some minutiae that may be erring, and in doing so
miss the total picture and complete collection of data that show the
things you're trying so hard to explain away. It's like trying to account
for every brush stroke and colour of the Mona Lisa and not stepping back
and seeing the complete work.
Truth, the facts and the reality of what happened in history, real history is in fact burried deep with the detail. I welcome this critique of my logical examination of the alleged facts.
Thank you.
If you skip the deatil you may as well just make up any story you like and call it history.
It irks me that on matters religious, dwelling on the detail seems to be a negative whilst on matters scientific, every single "i"must be dotted and the most infinitesimal "t" crossed before the even the basic assumptions are even begrudgingly acknowledged by the religious fundamentalsits.
The facts if you care to actually open your eyes are that the score, science vs religion currently stands at science everything up to and including the first trillionth of a second after creation, so a googol to religion nil.

How about you start dealing in some detail?

Mary was a virgin......bullshit,,,if there was a Mary, in the biblical sense she got knocked up outside of wedlock and made upa story that even those in her family would find hard to believe.
Mary, the mother of Jesus was for all intents and purposes a liar and in the eyes of her family, peers and society a whore.

People were killed in the street for her "crime" and still are in fundamentalist circles.. Not that I have any issue with child bearing out of wedlock, but really...Wake the **** up.
 

Pie eyed

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and this is the uniqueness of Christianity. It is called Grace.
Grace says that God would love his creation so much that he would sacrifice everything so that they
can be in relationship with him. Grace says that there is nothing you can do to earn the favour of God,
and it is just given. Grace says that no matter what you have done, God is willing to forgive it
and take the penalty upon himself just so that people can have community with him.

No other religion has the awesome message of grace.
It is freeing!

I would also like to add that God did not place sin on people.
People choose to sin.
My daughter is called Grace.

That said any alleged God has sacrificed nothing for human kind. In fact if you take a word of the Old and New Testaments literally God has done nothing but torture humanity like a small child with a magnifying glass does a colony of ants.

He created sin, put it before Adam and Eve, bestowed it on Cain and Able and has held every hamuna being born ever since personally responsible.
He handed you free will and every other tool you could possibly require to fail to uphold his laws, which he has done absolutely nothing to make clear, instead relying on a cult of pseudo-celibate men who have no experience what-so-ever of normal human life, to interpret the second hand ramblings of tiny group of medieval fan-bois, themselves unable to agree on what it is that the man who may or may not have been the son of a god, and a god himself, yet was incapable of convincing the masses of his deity, or even saving his own life.

Nothing which the bible or Christianity claims of their god is even remotely impressive and points to a god of little worth even if he existed.
A "clints" god.
 

Bennett.

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Truth, the facts and the reality of what happened in history, real history is in fact burried deep with the detail. I welcome this critique of my logical examination of the alleged facts.
Thank you.
If you skip the deatil you may as well just make up any story you like and call it history.
It irks me that on matters religious, dwelling on the detail seems to be a negative whilst on matters scientific, every single "i"must be dotted and the most infinitesimal "t" crossed before the even the basic assumptions are even begrudgingly acknowledged by the religious fundamentalsits.
The facts if you care to actually open your eyes are that the score, science vs religion currently stands at science everything up to and including the first trillionth of a second after creation, so a googol to religion nil.

How about you start dealing in some detail?

Mary was a virgin......bullshit,,,if there was a Mary, in the biblical sense she got knocked up outside of wedlock and made upa story that even those in her family would find hard to believe.
Mary, the mother of Jesus was for all intents and purposes a liar and in the eyes of her family, peers and society a whore.

People were killed in the street for her "crime" and still are in fundamentalist circles.. Not that I have any issue with child bearing out of wedlock, but really...Wake the **** up.

Before we even look at the question, please answer me one question.

Are, in your opinion, miracles at all possible in our world?
 

Bennett.

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My daughter is called Grace.

That said any alleged God has sacrificed nothing for human kind. In fact if you take a word of the Old and New Testaments literally God has done nothing but torture humanity like a small child with a magnifying glass does a colony of ants.

He created sin, put it before Adam and Eve, bestowed it on Cain and Able and has held every hamuna being born ever since personally responsible.
He handed you free will and every other tool you could possibly require to fail to uphold his laws, which he has done absolutely nothing to make clear, instead relying on a cult of pseudo-celibate men who have no experience what-so-ever of normal human life, to interpret the second hand ramblings of tiny group of medieval fan-bois, themselves unable to agree on what it is that the man who may or may not have been the son of a god, and a god himself, yet was incapable of convincing the masses of his deity, or even saving his own life.

Nothing which the bible or Christianity claims of their god is even remotely impressive and points to a god of little worth even if he existed.
A "clints" god.

It's no wonder you have such a negative outlook on things!
If the God you described was real, I'd doubt him myself!
 
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