Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

god or advanced entity?

  • god

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • advanced entity

    Votes: 21 60.0%

  • Total voters
    35
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Ghossein

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I'm guessing death is like before we are born. Not much to be scared of really.
Real immortality is having our kids carry on some of our genetic makeup.
it's also not helped by the fact that parents want their children to be religious because it apparently teaches them good values

it just end up in them getting raped.....
 

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Monniehawk

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Exactly.
This is why I find it entertaining that people buy into these obviously antiquated and debunked belief systems but get upset when it's pointed out to them.
What a surprise!
Attack a person's ideas as being ridiculous, antiquated, debunked, irrational rubbish, unscientific, fables, brain-washing, psychological crutch, primitive dune-dweller's myths, etc., and they actually get upset?? :eek:
Over what!!??
Can't understand it at all.
Why not just accept that they are wrong and we are right?
As usual.
 

Ghossein

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What a surprise!
Attack a person's ideas as being ridiculous, antiquated, debunked, irrational rubbish, unscientific, fables, brain-washing, psychological crutch, primitive dune-dweller's myths, etc., and they actually get upset?? :eek:
Over what!!??
Can't understand it at all.
Why not just accept that they are wrong and we are right?
As usual.
He contrasts this with the scientific method, which he describes as a system whereby working assumptions may be falsified by recourse to reason and evidence. Dawkins provides an example from his undergraduate study, when a visiting researcher disproved a hypothesis of a professor, who accepted the outcome with "My dear fellow, I wish to thank you, I have been wrong these fifteen years."
Excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Root_of_All_Evil? describing a moment in Richard Dawkins' movie, 'The Root Of All Evil'.

if you ask me it's pretty immature. large sums of evidence are shown to them and instead of questioning their beliefs, and approaching everything with a logical mind, they decide to cover their eyes and ears because they don't like to be wrong.
 
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What a surprise!
Attack a person's ideas as being ridiculous, antiquated, debunked, irrational rubbish, unscientific, fables, brain-washing, psychological crutch, primitive dune-dweller's myths, etc., and they actually get upset?? :eek:
Over what!!??
Can't understand it at all.
Why not just accept that they are wrong and we are right?
As usual.
Whilst I appreciate your exasperated post it really seems that simple to me.
Life isn't about one size fit's all. Humanities recorded experiences and knowledge base has expanded, for better or worse since our ancestors first started walking around. It seems logical to me that we should spend our finite time and resources in the best way possible. Invisible, silent and unprovable deities that serve no purpose other than to empower individuals who claim to know it's mind and speak it's will are just a waste of our precious time. How can we ever reach our full potential when being help back with superstition. It's much like the progression towards mixed martial arts these days. I have participated in and enjoyed martial arts since I was a kid. Now as much as I personally like Budo and traditional martial arts for traditions sake I also recognise that they are for the most part ineffective in reality for self defence. This isn't based on some arrogant belief the UFC or mixed martial arts is the be all and end all. Rather from personal experience and researching the collected knowledge based of unarmed combat. I have trained in Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, Judo, Brazilian Jiu jitsu and Boxing. Each on their own is fine but no empirical system of self defence. Together they make randori/sparring/rolling much more fun and effective. No one style is one size fits all. I view religion and philosophical systems exactly the same way. Morality and ethics cannot solely come from a bronze age belief system whose foundational text is riddled with contradiction and violence. I am however aware of the irony that the original concept of western scepticism originated from classical Greece and is older than christianity. I'm not sure of the origins of secular humanism, the renaissance perhaps?
 

bombermick

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What a surprise!
Attack a person's ideas as being ridiculous, antiquated, debunked, irrational rubbish, unscientific, fables, brain-washing, psychological crutch, primitive dune-dweller's myths, etc., and they actually get upset?? :eek:
Over what!!??
Can't understand it at all.
Why not just accept that they are wrong and we are right?
As usual.
Agree. They can believe whatever they want, as long as their kids are exposed to the rational alternative and they're not allowed to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.

Not much society can do about the home-schooled kids ...
 

tesseract

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My issue you accept an old earth, but reject evolution for seemingly no other reason than the Bible says so. IF you must start with that conclusion you still need science and logic to support it, otherwise it's blind acceptance.
Whilst the bible doesn't claim to be a scientific textbook, what science the bible has is completely correct. This gives way to my confidence and trust in the bible in this regard. Besides, you're making an assumption that the bible is all I've looked into. Just because I don't bother to discuss anything other than the bible here, it doesn't mean that the bible is the only source for my conclusions; just the main source. Again, I'm here to comment as I please, not to convince you of the rightness of my belief.
 
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Whilst the bible doesn't claim to be a scientific textbook, what science the bible has is completely correct. This gives way to my confidence and trust in the bible in this regard. Besides, you're making an assumption that the bible is all I've looked into. Just because I don't bother to discuss anything other than the bible here, it doesn't mean that the bible is the only source for my conclusions; just the main source. Again, I'm here to comment as I please, not to convince you of the rightness of my belief.

god fashions a woman out of one of Adam's rib's. Seem's legit.
 

tesseract

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I'm guessing death is like before we are born. Not much to be scared of really.
Real immortality is having our kids carry on some of our genetic makeup.
I think you need to check the definition of immortality, because what you've said regarding "real immortality" is false.
 

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bombermick

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Whilst the bible doesn't claim to be a scientific textbook, what science the bible has is completely correct. This gives way to my confidence and trust in the bible in this regard. Besides, you're making an assumption that the bible is all I've looked into. Just because I don't bother to discuss anything other than the bible here, it doesn't mean that the bible is the only source for my conclusions; just the main source. Again, I'm here to comment as I please, not to convince you of the rightness of my belief.
Except for the bit that says every animal was created almost simultaneously 6000 years ago. Oh,and that homosexuality is an unnatural abomination.
 

tesseract

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Except for the bit that says every animal was created almost simultaneously 6000 years ago. Oh,and that homosexuality is an unnatural abomination.
Where does the bible say "every animal was created almost simultaneously 6000 years ago"?

Unlike some believers who turn to an authority on matters such as homosexuality, those who believe as you do make up their own morality as they go, then claim that their way is correct and believers are wrong. Who to believe... an infallible God or a fallible human?
 
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I'm glad we agree.
Precisely.
Where does the bible say "every animal was created almost simultaneously 6000 years ago"?
Unlike some believers who turn to an authority on matters such as homosexuality, those who believe as you do make up their own morality as they go, then claim that their way is correct and believers are wrong. Who to believe... an infallible God or a fallible human?
If god asked you to kill your own child for him, would you do it?
 

tesseract

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Precisely.

I

If god asked you to kill your child for him, would you do it?
Since your question is obviously leading to another of your trolls, I will answer by means of an example of such, such as when God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on the alter.

Now you know what to look up to read up on this, you can find out why it was asked and what happened in the end. It should be enlightening for you.

Keep your posts general, please. I won't be answering personal questions.
 
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Since your question is obviously leading to another of your trolls, I will answer by means of an example of such, such as when God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on the alter.

Now you know what to look up to read up on this, you can find out why it was asked and what happened in the end. It should be enlightening for you.

Keep your posts general, please. I won't be answering personal questions.
..and there's your bible morality.

I'm asking a sincere question yet you label it as 'trolling' because you do not like the answer you would give.

And thank you for you concern but I have read the bible and other religious text's so you can cease the ad-hominem strategy of defence as well.

If you stone your disobedient children to death as prescribed by deutoronmy is that moral?
 

tesseract

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..and there's your bible morality.

I'm asking a sincere question yet you label it as 'trolling' because you do not like the answer you would give.

And thank you for you concern but I have read the bible and other religious text's so you can cease the ad-hominem strategy of defence as well.

If you stone your disobedient children to death as prescribed by deutoronmy is that moral?

What do you mean by "and there's your bible morality"?

It may be sincere, but it's also leading to a troll of myself and the bible. So, it's not the answer I could give that's the issue, but the inevitable troll that you'll respond with. I'm not taking the bait and giving you the ammunition.

Not an ad-hom at all, for the proof that you're a troll is littered within this thread, with your mocking pics and condescending posts.

You say you've read the bible, so find whatever answer you wish to garner from that.
 

Pie eyed

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Whilst the bible doesn't claim to be a scientific textbook, what science the bible has is completely correct. This gives way to my confidence and trust in the bible in this regard. Besides, you're making an assumption that the bible is all I've looked into. Just because I don't bother to discuss anything other than the bible here, it doesn't mean that the bible is the only source for my conclusions; just the main source. Again, I'm here to comment as I please, not to convince you of the rightness of my belief.
Exactly what science does the bible contain?
Excerpts would be appreciated.
I honestly doubt there is any...apart from maybe the Humanities, which is more philosophy.
 

tesseract

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Exactly what science does the bible contain?
Excerpts would be appreciated.
I honestly doubt there is any...apart from maybe the Humanities, which is more philosophy.
Look for it yourself. Your comment here goes to show that you trash something you haven't read for yourself. Not that I didn't already know this, but hence why I ignore most of your posts relating to God.
 
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What do you mean by "and there's your bible morality"?
Killing for your god. Old Testament. You refuse to answer a simple question because you don't like the answer. If god appeared to you today and asked you to kill your child for him, would you do it?




It may be sincere, but it's also leading to a troll of myself and the bible. So, it's not the answer I could give that's the issue, but the inevitable troll that you'll respond with. I'm not taking the bait and giving you the ammunition.
What you call "troll" seems to be the bare facts of the bible. I'm not doing anything other than questioning direct passages from the bible. Since when has asking a question of someone who is a believer a troll? I don't have a supernatural entity as the guiding principle in my life. I am earnestly interested to see if you would openly admit that you would kill for your god or any christian for that matter if your god demanded it from you.


Not an ad-hom at all, for the proof that you're a troll is littered within this thread, with your mocking pics and condescending posts.

You say you've read the bible, so find whatever answer you wish to garner from that.
Yes it is ad-hom when you assume I haven't read any holy text or done a fair bit of personal research and go on to flippantly label me a troll as I have a differing opinion to you. I could say you are trolling reality believing in the supernatural but I don't feel the need. It just seems our minds have come to different conclusions with the evidence at hand.
BTW A few funny meme pics shouldn't upset you. They are right on the money. Kirk Cameron is a douche bag. I make no apologies for poking fun at that hate filled bigot. Not to mention his mate Ray Comfort's Atheist Nightmare Banana evidence that in his mind disproves evolution and proves creationism. A banana.

Tess, are you upset by the memes that are posted that critique Islam, Mormonism, Scientology or New Age religions or psychics?
 

Monniehawk

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Agree. They can believe whatever they want, as long as their kids are exposed to the rational alternative and they're not allowed to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.
Not much society can do about the home-schooled kids ...
And why should it?
Let's think it through.
To validly do "something", society would first have to assess that "religion" (per se) is in some way fundamentally wrong, undesirable or evil.
I just do not subscribe to that notion. Even as an atheist, I can see religion in general as not a threat, but just another human construct trying to reconcile man's place in the universe. (Specific manifestations of particular religions may well be a different matter!)
Therefore religion entertains a number of the flaws of humanity. Like Capitalism or Welfare. It may not be perfect, but it requires constant maintenance to keep it in line. Not annihilation.
I find it abhorrent that a society would completely ban religion from children (Avert your eyes, son. Here comes a nun!!) because of a rather paranoid fear that xians are manipulative, deranged or irrational mind-twisters. Strike! That criteria endangers icons such as News Ltd, Gina Rinehart, Anzac/Australia Day, Scouts, the Union Movement, H.R. Nichols Society, the Business Council of Australia, ATSIG, etc, and any school ever built!
Aboriginal kids would necessarily have to be denied access to the so-called 'Dreaming' thereby losing contact with a fundamental part of their cultural heritage.
By all means monitor and temper any aberrations, but banning a complete human activity that does not fully address our prejudices or philosophical expectations is pretty severe. It would send us beyond the Dark Ages!
I'd go to war over that one!
 
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