Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

god or advanced entity?

  • god

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • advanced entity

    Votes: 21 60.0%

  • Total voters
    35
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Boston tiger

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Genesis was not meant to be a scientific explanation of creation. The first 3 books don't pretend to be anything to with physics or biology.
It's a work of theology that focuses on the who , why and what.
It's an important story but by no means a scientific explanation of creation. Only meant to be discussed on a theological level.
Fundamentalists will say something different I imagine.
 
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Boston tiger

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If free will exists, then either God is a bit irresponsible or He doesn't love the world as much as Christians tell us it's so
Good question and plenty of people have pondered this one.

You are right in that love is the cornerstone of this whole Christian God business. But you can't force someone to love you. God wants us to love God but can't force it. ( making us robotic sheep type beings would not be loving us )

Some say he didn't make this physical world we live in perfect so we wouldn't just rely on ourselves but come to rely on a perfect God.
(Guided free will maybe ?)



God not making this world perfect isn't so bad because if you believe in all this God business he said he has made a prefect world ( heaven) so everyone hold your horses and don't panic.

God being irresponsible is a big call.

It's a good and big question that I can't answer properly texting but I'm sure some else will have a go.
 

hardon

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God not making this world perfect isn't so bad because if you believe in all this God business he said he has made a prefect world ( heaven) so everyone hold your horses and don't panic.
well clearly heaven is not perfect; several angels wanted out of there and wanted no more to do with god.

there are problems with everybodys version of christianity. the ideas don't make sense and you have to be indoctrinated just to be at ease with the incoherent concepts.
 

slicedndiced

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God wants us to love God but can't force it. ( making us robotic sheep type beings would not be loving us )
You've obviously never attended a Christian boarding school.

All this pharking hoo-hah today for a normal bloke that a lot of us couldn't give two shytes about.

Can Sydney and Brisbane expect the 4 horseman of the Apocalypse to ride into town and lay them to waste for playing a game of sport on the "holy day"?

I think not.

Oh, tesseract, you are clearly not right in the head.
 

slicedndiced

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The standard response of the new atheist.
abuse the person rather than discuss the question.
Agnostic actually.

But thanks for the generalisation.

There is no question, no question at all.

Omnipotent God who sent his son to die for us? Give me a f***ing break.:rolleyes:

All from a collection of stories written over the centuries by numerous non-eyewitnesses who have given their own interpretation of events, which untold numbers of people have since re-written and reinterpreted over and over again.

But it's all in the vibe huh, it's in the feeling, it's a faith thing.

Suck my balls and let this country be truly secular.


F***ing God-floggers, all religions, should all be lined up and shot.

Praise Satan!

/rant
 

Cooldude

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Good question and plenty of people have pondered this one.

You are right in that love is the cornerstone of this whole Christian God business. But you can't force someone to love you. God wants us to love God but can't force it. ( making us robotic sheep type beings would not be loving us )

Some say he didn't make this physical world we live in perfect so we wouldn't just rely on ourselves but come to rely on a perfect God.
(Guided free will maybe ?)
That's all well and good, but if God loves the world, why are some blatantly heinous and unjust things continually be allowed to happen in the world? Things like war, innocent getting killed, genetic diseases for children that have done nothing wrong, extreme poverty and starvation. Why does an ominpotent God allow those things to happen just in the name of letting people be able to choose to love Him outta their own free will? I think that's actually a bit psychopathic

Which is why I say a God that allows that to happen out of the name of free will and love must either be irresponsible or aren't as loving as being made out

However it's Good Friday, and there's one thing I'd say though, I really like that Jesus bloke and a lot of what He says according to the scriptures. There are inconsistencies in the whole God thing but you can't deny that Jesus provided some great solutions to some big problems. My biggest gripe is that those Christians who allegedly follow this bloke aren't anything like him, they are just imposters and deceivers
 

Boston tiger

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You've obviously never attended a Christian boarding school.

All this pharking hoo-hah today for a normal bloke that a lot of us couldn't give two shytes about.

Can Sydney and Brisbane expect the 4 horseman of the Apocalypse to ride into town and lay them to waste for playing a game of sport on the "holy day"?

I think not.

Oh, tesseract, you are clearly not right in the head.
Good Friday ? Not even a holy day of obligation. Eg don't have to go to church. So I can't see too much of a problem.
 

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Bennett.

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Agnostic actually.

But thanks for the generalisation.

There is no question, no question at all.

Omnipotent God who sent his son to die for us? Give me a f***ing break.:rolleyes:

All from a collection of stories written over the centuries by numerous non-eyewitnesses who have given their own interpretation of events, which untold numbers of people have since re-written and reinterpreted over and over again.

But it's all in the vibe huh, it's in the feeling, it's a faith thing.

Suck my balls and let this country be truly secular.


F***ing God-floggers, all religions, should all be lined up and shot.

Praise Satan!

/rant

charming. For a person who would claim to have all the knowledge, you really don't know much at all.
 

Bennett.

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That's all well and good, but if God loves the world, why are some blatantly heinous and unjust things continually be allowed to happen in the world? Things like war, innocent getting killed, genetic diseases for children that have done nothing wrong, extreme poverty and starvation. Why does an ominpotent God allow those things to happen just in the name of letting people be able to choose to love Him outta their own free will? I think that's actually a bit psychopathic

Which is why I say a God that allows that to happen out of the name of free will and love must either be irresponsible or aren't as loving as being made out

However it's Good Friday, and there's one thing I'd say though, I really like that Jesus bloke and a lot of what He says according to the scriptures. There are inconsistencies in the whole God thing but you can't deny that Jesus provided some great solutions to some big problems. My biggest gripe is that those Christians who allegedly follow this bloke aren't anything like him, they are just imposters and deceivers
These things happen BECAUSE of free will and the amount of evil in this broken world.
People don't seem to realise that by living for themselves and by being completely self-centred that the problem
in this world of evil, injustice and devastation are because people have strayed from following the one who says
to love and honour God and serve one another. You want the answer why? Look at people.
 

Cooldude

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These things happen BECAUSE of free will and the amount of evil in this broken world.
People don't seem to realise that by living for themselves and by being completely self-centred that the problem
in this world of evil, injustice and devastation are because people have strayed from following the one who says
to love and honour God and serve one another. You want the answer why? Look at people.
Talk about missing the point completely

If a God is as loving as Christians claim to be, or as omnipotent and powerful, then how could those absolutely heinous things be allowed to happen throughout history? If God is all powerful then at least some of those things should've been stopped, and if God is loving, then those things would've have been allowed to happen in the first place. The fact that free will somehow justifies God ignoring or allowing such things to happen, yet somehow He still loves the world, is just completely screwed up. No sane people in their right mind can think that is consistent or isn't completely stupid

So free will means either God isn't as loving as has been claimed or not as omnipotent as claimed, both of which breaks Christian's arguments completely

This has been said and explained numerous times the past few pages, you should read them before replying or you'd be doing a tesseract
 

Bennett.

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Talk about missing the point completely

If a God is as loving as Christians claim to be, or as omnipotent and powerful, then how could those absolutely heinous things be allowed to happen throughout history? If God is all powerful then at least some of those things should've been stopped, and if God is loving, then those things would've have been allowed to happen in the first place. The fact that free will somehow justifies God ignoring or allowing such things to happen, yet somehow He still loves the world, is just completely screwed up. No sane people in their right mind can think that is consistent or isn't completely stupid

So free will means either God isn't as loving as has been claimed or not as omnipotent as claimed, both of which breaks Christian's arguments completely

This has been said and explained numerous times the past few pages, you should read them before replying or you'd be doing a tesseract
actually, you have missed the point, and no amount of quips can change that. Just because God knows what we will do in a situation does not mean that we are not exercising our free will! If I give you a pint of beer and a pint of chlorine, I'm pretty sure that I know what you will drink, but you are still making that choice! This does not mean that everything we do as people is a predestined and fated thing to happen. At the end of the day, free will is just the position that people are capable of making their own choices free of outside influence and coercion. You would disagree with this? As far as to the question of what you think God should or should not do, I'm sure he'll take your opinion on board, but bad things sometimes happen because we live in a broken and decaying world.
 

hardon

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These things happen BECAUSE of free will and the amount of evil in this broken world.
People don't seem to realise that by living for themselves and by being completely self-centred that the problem
in this world of evil, injustice and devastation are because people have strayed from following the one who says
to love and honour God and serve one another. You want the answer why? Look at people.
christian arguments, besides not making sense, also have the problem of completely not explaining degrees of evil, or even providing a standard for evil.

why isn't just bumping into someone, or giving them a shove, the worst evil we are capable of? why isn't the penalty for turning away from god just being admitted to lesser heaven, instead of greater heaven? why isn't having a sore toe the worst suffering that free will could inject into the world?

you see, if god really is the moral standard then he could have said "right, suffering is a sore toe. evil s bumping into someone. if you follow me you get into greater heaven. if you don't follow me you go to lesser heaven." only a ******* arsehole, when setting up the whole system, would say "right, if you don't follow me i'll **** you up and make sure you burn, and not following me will lead to genocide, disease, screaming, miscarriages." to answer otherwise would be to completely undermine god as the creator of the whole thing.
 

hardon

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...but you are still making that choice!
i don't believe in god any more than i believe in the easter bunny. if i don't believe in him then how the hell can i follow him? and if everything he left behind didn't convince my brain, the very one he supposedly equipped me with, then why is it that i'm going to pay the price?
 

Bennett.

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christian arguments, besides not making sense, also have the problem of completely not explaining degrees of evil, or even providing a standard for evil.

why isn't just bumping into someone, or giving them a shove, the worst evil we are capable of? why isn't the penalty for turning away from god just being admitted to lesser heaven, instead of greater heaven? why isn't having a sore toe the worst suffering that free will could inject into the world?

you see, if god really is the moral standard then he could have said "right, suffering is a sore toe. evil s bumping into someone. if you follow me you get into greater heaven. if you don't follow me you go to lesser heaven." only a ******* arsehole, when setting up the whole system, would say "right, if you don't follow me i'll **** you up and make sure you burn, and not following me will lead to genocide, disease, screaming, miscarriages." to answer otherwise would be to completely undermine god as the creator of the whole thing.
why don't you ask him yourself?
 

Bennett.

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i don't believe in god any more than i believe in the easter bunny. if i don't believe in him then how the hell can i follow him? and if everything he left behind didn't convince my brain, the very one he supposedly equipped me with, then why is it that i'm going to pay the price?
I can't answer for you, but everyone is capable of believing if they want to
 

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i don't believe in god any more than i believe in the easter bunny. if i don't believe in him then how the hell can i follow him? and if everything he left behind didn't convince my brain, the very one he supposedly equipped me with, then why is it that i'm going to pay the price?
The most conclusive evidence for my total lack of belief in the Christian god, is the fact that there are religions in nearly all cultures. The majority were created in a time when we knew very little, scientifically about the earth and universe. Certain geological processes were only discovered in the mid 20th century. And it wasn't until Hubble, that we realized the enormity of the universe. Now we know so much more. They've described fables about creation and god, in a time where they didn't have the evidence we have today. I'm absolutely certain the evidence we have today, thwarts every single religion on earth. While it doesn't disprove a creator, it disproves every single religion.
 
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