Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

god or advanced entity?

  • god

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • advanced entity

    Votes: 21 60.0%

  • Total voters
    35
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hardon

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The most conclusive evidence for my total lack of belief in the Christian god, is the fact that there are religions in nearly all cultures. The majority were created in a time when we knew very little, scientifically about the earth and universe. Certain geological processes were only discovered in the mid 20th century. And it wasn't until Hubble, that we realized the enormity of the universe. Now we know so much more. They've described fables about creation and god, in a time where they didn't have the evidence we have today. I'm absolutely certain the evidence we have today, thwarts every single religion on earth. While it doesn't disprove a creator, it disproves every single religion.
yeah, i go further and discount the idea of a creator because it's still too human a concept for my liking. we don't have any reason to believe that 'creator' in our limited sense has any meaning outside of the construct that i believe the 'creator' notion is. i can't point to anything, that isn't a construct, that was created in the out-of-nothing sense. so everything 'real', if you like, has really been rearranged from other 'stuff'. and it may go on in all directions just like that with no creation.
 

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i don't believe in god any more than i believe in the easter bunny. if i don't believe in him then how the hell can i follow him? and if everything he left behind didn't convince my brain, the very one he supposedly equipped me with, then why is it that i'm going to pay the price?
Don't want to sound condescending or to insult you ..But your having ago. Exercising your free will and looking for truth. You are honest in your beliefs and even if you don't believe... your actions towards your fellow man will be probably how you are judged.

Who friggin knows
 

hardon

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Don't want to sound condescending or to insult you ..But your having ago. Exercising your free will and looking for truth. You are honest in your beliefs and even if you don't believe... your actions towards your fellow man will be probably how you are judged.

Who friggin knows
that's cool. i realise 'ego' wasn't used as a pejorative.

this is part of why none of the religious explanations come close to convincing me. they just make things worse in that they throw up more questions than answers. i'm sorry but your post does just that again.

i just completely fail to see how god isn't responsible for everything, including my lack of belief. he has no excuses. i can construct things things that will produce results that are, at some level, unpredictable. but this is only due to my lack of complete knowledge of the systems the govern the physical world. a god has NO SUCH EXCUSE. he knows everything about everything at the initial state, and the processes that govern how it will unfold. if he doesn't know then he isn't, and can't be god.

free will is a totally nonsense concept, probably dreamt up by a human, to explain away these tricky questions. when everybody was indoctrinated it probably worked. but it doesn't stand up in any satisfactory way to honest enquiry.
 

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actually, you have missed the point, and no amount of quips can change that. Just because God knows what we will do in a situation does not mean that we are not exercising our free will! If I give you a pint of beer and a pint of chlorine, I'm pretty sure that I know what you will drink, but you are still making that choice! This does not mean that everything we do as people is a predestined and fated thing to happen. At the end of the day, free will is just the position that people are capable of making their own choices free of outside influence and coercion. You would disagree with this? As far as to the question of what you think God should or should not do, I'm sure he'll take your opinion on board, but bad things sometimes happen because we live in a broken and decaying world.
Wow, you just gave out a post that shows how far you've missed the point then you are gonna have a go at someone else missing the point. Is this a trait
that certain "Christians" have, this self-unaware hypocrisy?

You know predestination was never the topic in dispute, right? But you're gonna bring it up, go off on a tangent about things that wasn't actually the main point of question then you're gonna have a go at someone else for missing the point? Well done

Yes, a broken and decaying world, created by God, who is suppose to be all powerful, whom according to tesseract could destroy Satan any time he wants, but chooses not to, but allow the exercising of free will, where anyone can be free to choose to commit evil, where the innocent and the oppressed will freely be maimed and persecuted and killed even though they have done nothing wrong, where kids can have predisposed genetic diseases, the list goes on.

So you'r'e telling me, this broken and decay world, created by God, is this ****** up, this unfair, this unjust, but all of it is because of free will, the ability for people to be able to choose to have a relationship with Jesus, to understand His love. That sounds ultimately screwed up bat droppings crazy. If God is all powerful, yet chooses to ignore this terrible mess, unjust things happening, innocent perishing, then He must be psychotic. If God is all loving, then I don't see how allowing all these heinous things happening is love at all, it sounds like Charlie Sheen beating his wife kinda love, and if He is truly loving, then He should be actively doing something about this mess, which He chooses not to, even though he's omnipotent

So either God isn't omnipotent or he isn't loving, because free will doesn't allow for both of those to be true. He wouldn't be very just, either

But I know what you're gonna do, you're gonna do a tesseract, somehow ignore all this, talk about me missing the point, and go off on a tangent about something else, because that's just what you do
 

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that's cool. i realise 'ego' wasn't used as a pejorative.

this is part of why none of the religious explanations come close to convincing me. they just make things worse in that they throw up more questions than answers. i'm sorry but your post does just that again.

i just completely fail to see how god isn't responsible for everything, including my lack of belief. he has no excuses. i can construct things things that will produce results that are, at some level, unpredictable. but this is only due to my lack of complete knowledge of the systems the govern the physical world. a god has NO SUCH EXCUSE. he knows everything about everything at the initial state, and the processes that govern how it will unfold. if he doesn't know then he isn't, and can't be god.

free will is a totally nonsense concept, probably dreamt up by a human, to explain away these tricky questions. when everybody was indoctrinated it probably worked. but it doesn't stand up in any satisfactory way to honest enquiry.
Fair enough. So God knows that you up to this point don't believe in a higher power etc) and more importantly knew this 60 million years ago in other words always knew this. But gave you free will?
So it was always going to happen.
So therefore no matter what choices you made .. It didn't matter because it was always going to happen and why then let it happen or your point make it happen.
It's a loving God so what's the story?

A ramble but I'm I getting it?

Too hard for me too answer but I think theologians start throwing out terms like God working out the confines of time and other rules because he was never created so has no beginning.

But that ain't going make any sense without the belief of a higher power?
 
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Bennett.

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Wow, you just gave out a post that shows how far you've missed the point then you are gonna have a go at someone else missing the point. Is this a trait
that certain "Christians" have, this self-unaware hypocrisy?

You know predestination was never the topic in dispute, right? But you're gonna bring it up, go off on a tangent about things that wasn't actually the main point of question then you're gonna have a go at someone else for missing the point? Well done

Yes, a broken and decaying world, created by God, who is suppose to be all powerful, whom according to tesseract could destroy Satan any time he wants, but chooses not to, but allow the exercising of free will, where anyone can be free to choose to commit evil, where the innocent and the oppressed will freely be maimed and persecuted and killed even though they have done nothing wrong, where kids can have predisposed genetic diseases, the list goes on.

So you'r'e telling me, this broken and decay world, created by God, is this ****** up, this unfair, this unjust, but all of it is because of free will, the ability for people to be able to choose to have a relationship with Jesus, to understand His love. That sounds ultimately screwed up bat droppings crazy. If God is all powerful, yet chooses to ignore this terrible mess, unjust things happening, innocent perishing, then He must be psychotic. If God is all loving, then I don't see how allowing all these heinous things happening is love at all, it sounds like Charlie Sheen beating his wife kinda love, and if He is truly loving, then He should be actively doing something about this mess, which He chooses not to, even though he's omnipotent

So either God isn't omnipotent or he isn't loving, because free will doesn't allow for both of those to be true. He wouldn't be very just, either

But I know what you're gonna do, you're gonna do a tesseract, somehow ignore all this, talk about me missing the point, and go off on a tangent about something else, because that's just what you do
I've answered you twice, the fact that you don't want to accept it is not my problem.
Perhaps you could actually HAVE a point rather than repeat the bog standard arguments.
 

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I've answered you twice, the fact that you don't want to accept it is not my problem.
Perhaps you could actually HAVE a point rather than repeat the bog standard arguments.
Who is the one who doesn't wanna accept it? I've offered a perfectly good rebuttal and this is your pathetic response, but you're gonna say someone else ain't accepting it. You hypocrite

I do have a point, quite a few people the past few pages have acknowledged it, but you're just conveniently ignoring it coz you clearly don't have a satisfactory rebuttal to it, yet you have the cheek to call someone else for having bog standard arguments
 

Bennett.

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Who is the one who doesn't wanna accept it? I've offered a perfectly good rebuttal and this is your pathetic response, but you're gonna say someone else ain't accepting it. You hypocrite

I do have a point, quite a few people the past few pages have acknowledged it, but you're just conveniently ignoring it coz you clearly don't have a satisfactory rebuttal to it, yet you have the cheek to call someone else for having bog standard arguments
you don't have a point at all. You just regurgitate old arguments. I answered your questions, what is your problem with the answer?
 

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you don't have a point at all. You just regurgitate old arguments. I answered your questions, what is your problem with the answer?
Your answer wasn't even relevant to the point at hand, you were just going off topic on a tangent about something else that wasn't even discussed

But you're gonna have a go at someone else for not having a point, this is what you do when you have nothing and are desperate, lads. Take spartanwa as a fine example
 

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Bennett.

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Your answer wasn't even relevant to the point at hand, you were just going off topic on a tangent about something else that wasn't even discussed

But you're gonna have a go at someone else for not having a point, this is what you do when you have nothing and are desperate, lads. Take spartanwa as a fine example
you were questioning free will were you not? And how a God could let bad things happen yada yada yada.
I'm sorry the answer you wanted wasn't sufficient enough for you
 

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you were questioning free will were you not? And how a God could let bad things happen yada yada yada.
I'm sorry the answer you wanted wasn't sufficient enough for you
I was pointing out that if God allows free will to exist, then He either isn't omnipotent or isn't loving. But apparently that isn't a point, and you just pointed out some irrelevant stuff about predestination and decay broken world, which I've already addressed and shot down, so your last resort is to say I don't have a point, clutching at straws at best

Of course it wasn't sufficient enough for me, if the answer is bad then the answer is bad, you can deflect all you want but it doesn't change that fact
 

Bennett.

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I was pointing out that if God allows free will to exist, then He either isn't omnipotent or isn't loving. But apparently that isn't a point, and you just pointed out some irrelevant stuff about predestination and decay broken world, which I've already addressed and shot down, so your last resort is to say I don't have a point, clutching at straws at best

Of course it wasn't sufficient enough for me, if the answer is bad then the answer is bad, you can deflect all you want but it doesn't change that fact
Who are you to make that judgement though? What basis do you make those claims on?
Are YOU perfect?
 

Cooldude

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Who are you to make that judgement though? What basis do you make those claims on?
Are YOU perfect?
Logic and common sense, my friend, something you seem to be foreign to

Now the 2nd question is just as random as a conversation with Courtney Love, and you're gonna have a go at someone else for not having a point?
 

Bennett.

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Logic and common sense, my friend, something you seem to be foreign to

Now the 2nd question is just as random as a conversation with Courtney Love, and you're gonna have a go at someone else for not having a point?
No the second question means precisely that you are not qualified to answer for you are an imperfect person.
 

Bennett.

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Whaaaat?

That is an insane jumping to conclusions there, how does that have anything to do with anything? This is like talking to a schizophrenic
Not at all. You think you can question the way that God operates and how he works, yet you are a fundamentally flawed person who knows very, very little.
 

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Not at all. You think you can question the way that God operates and how he works, yet you are a fundamentally flawed person who knows very, very little.
So basically you can't use logic and reason to see blatant injustices and inconsistencies as being completely farcical, coz clearly we are not perfect, we know very little, we are fundamentally flawed, we can't make a judgment. So however screwed up, however non-sensical, however unfair, however stupid something is, we would just have to suck it up and accept it, because God knows best, far more than we do.

Okay, that just explains that you must be a brainless sheep, now I understand why you've acted so stupidly the past few pages

And let's have the same Christians using the same imperfect, fundamentally flawed people argument to justify not persecuting sinners, homosexuals, excommunicating those you don't like, etc etc etc. Oh wait.

Double standards and hypocrisy? No wai!
 

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Good Friday ? Not even a holy day of obligation. Eg don't have to go to church. So I can't see too much of a problem.
Can't go to the footy, most shops closed, TV full of dickheads babbling on about a fairy tale and telling us how to live etc, etc....but loving the irony how a rabbit and chocolate has taken it over.

charming. For a person who would claim to have all the knowledge, you really don't know much at all.

About REAL life? Yeah, I know a fair bit. A helluva lot actually.

I'm not interested in your platitudes and interpretational shyte on some random book that you think talks about history and foretells the future and damns all who refuse to believe.

What horseshit.

Yeah, I'm charming - charming to the point of literally hoping that all of you pious pricks get your comeuppance n the future.


That last breath and heartbeat, when you think that the pearly gates await, will only be darkness and worms eating your flesh like the rest of us.

If you are right, LOL, then best of luck to you. However, I hope you get what for from this Christian God for continuously trying to tell us how to think and to live.

I'll be enjoying the eternal flames and damnation with a grin on my face.
 

Bennett.

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So basically you can't use logic and reason to see blatant injustices and inconsistencies as being completely farcical, coz clearly we are not perfect, we know very little, we are fundamentally flawed, we can't make a judgment. So however screwed up, however non-sensical, however unfair, however stupid something is, we would just have to suck it up and accept it, because God knows best, far more than we do.

Okay, that just explains that you must be a brainless sheep, now I understand why you've acted so stupidly the past few pages

And let's have the same Christians using the same imperfect, fundamentally flawed people argument to justify not persecuting sinners, homosexuals, excommunicating those you don't like, etc etc etc. Oh wait.

Double standards and hypocrisy? No wai!
who is persecuting who here?
I answer your questions, you don't like it, you go to insults.
The fact is that there ARE many things that we will never know or understand, suffice to say that the world is truly evil and corrupt
and the manifestations of that are evident no matter where you look, just watch the news! Logic and common sense can take you so far, but
where does logic come from? This is the point, there are so many questions and sometimes we focus on the wrong ones - rather than asking
where is God? why not try and see the good that IS done by people who give there lives serving Him. THAT is where you will find God in this world.
 

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Can't go to the footy, most shops closed, TV full of dickheads babbling on about a fairy tale and telling us how to live etc, etc....but loving the irony how a rabbit and chocolate has taken it over.




About REAL life? Yeah, I know a fair bit. A helluva lot actually.

I'm not interested in your platitudes and interpretational shyte on some random book that you think talks about history and foretells the future and damns all who refuse to believe.

What horseshit.

Yeah, I'm charming - charming to the point of literally hoping that all of you pious pricks get your comeuppance n the future.


That last breath and heartbeat, when you think that the pearly gates await, will only be darkness and worms eating your flesh like the rest of us.

If you are right, LOL, then best of luck to you. However, I hope you get what for from this Christian God for continuously trying to tell us how to think and to live.

I'll be enjoying the eternal flames and damnation with a grin on my face.
You really think I care what you think of me? Do you think I am trying to tell you how to live?
Stop trying to impress people.
 

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who is persecuting who here?
I answer your questions, you don't like it, you go to insults.
The fact is that there ARE many things that we will never know or understand, suffice to say that the world is truly evil and corrupt
and the manifestations of that are evident no matter where you look, just watch the news! Logic and common sense can take you so far, but
where does logic come from? This is the point, there are so many questions and sometimes we focus on the wrong ones - rather than asking
where is God? why not try and see the good that IS done by people who give there lives serving Him. THAT is where you will find God in this world.
I wasn't going to insults at all, I'm just using accurate descriptions

Christians, to other people, studied history? Been happening for centuries

So the world is truly evil and corrupt, yet you are told you follow this God who is all powerful all knowing and all loving, but you somehow can still justify God allowing this world to be truly evil and corrupt, the innocent to suffer, despite all the power and all the justice and all the love, all because of this concept of free will? Dont' make me repeat myself just because you can't understand simple concepts, and btw you don't need Einstein to work out that it's clearly completely nonsensical

So the questions that don't suit you however legitimate, is the wrong one, yet the questions you ask, however irrelevant, are the right ones. Alright

I've seen good people do good things and bad people do bad things, all in the name of Christ, so if that's how I'm gonna find God in this world then it still proves my point that God mustn't be very powerful or loving
 

Bennett.

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I wasn't going to insults at all, I'm just using accurate descriptions

Christians, to other people, studied history? Been happening for centuries

So the world is truly evil and corrupt, yet you are told you follow this God who is all powerful all knowing and all loving, but you somehow can still justify God allowing this world to be truly evil and corrupt, the innocent to suffer, despite all the power and all the justice and all the love, all because of this concept of free will? Dont' make me repeat myself just because you can't understand simple concepts, and btw you don't need Einstein to work out that it's clearly completely nonsensical

So the questions that don't suit you however legitimate, is the wrong one, yet the questions you ask, however irrelevant, are the right ones. Alright

I've seen good people do good things and bad people do bad things, all in the name of Christ, so if that's how I'm gonna find God in this world then it still proves my point that God mustn't be very powerful or loving

You have no basis to make that claim though! You will only filter what you want to see to support what argument you wish to portray!
The world is corrupt because we are imperfect, sinful people who have willingly turned our backs on God and then question why things
are so bad!
 

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You have no basis to make that claim though! You will only filter what you want to see to support what argument you wish to portray!
Which is exactly what YOU are doing, you are the one filtering what you want to see to support your own agenda, you are the daddy of it. Yet you have the cheek to have a go at someone else for doing it, hilarious

If you really wanna see the deeds of Christians as a foundation of where we'd find God, then you really are gonna be in trouble

The world is corrupt because we are imperfect, sinful people who have willingly turned our backs on God and then question why things
are so bad!
You can keep repeating that statement all you want despite all the obvious rebuttals to it and blatant takedowns that have shot it down, just keep closing your eyes block your ears and repeat it to yourself, maybe you can brainwash yourself to it somehow. Oh wait you already have
 
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