Religion The God Question - part 2

Discussion in 'Society, Religion and Politics' started by Total Power, Jul 20, 2016.

Put it out there
  1. jason pm

    jason pm Norm Smith Medallist

    Brisbane Lions
    Other teams:
    valleys
    Joined:
    Aug 15
    Posts:
    6,303
    Location:
    the scenic rim
    this post and J2Ss next 8 posts after it by J2S are some of the most brilliant logical, commonsense and concise postings i have read on this subject, great stuff J2S.:thumbsu::fire:

    i did start a thread with a poll re the god v advanced alien entity question a while ago (advanced alien entity won) which was merged with the god question thread by a mod, and my argument was the same ie. the numbers/probabilities and the mere fact that we exist confirms the hypothesis IMO.
     

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  2. chelseacarlton

    chelseacarlton BLUE it's the Magic Number

    Carlton
    Other teams:
    The Anti-Theists
    Joined:
    Apr 08
    Posts:
    12,116
    Location:
    So Frang
    Which of the 10,000 religions and inspired by which god,thought to number at least 1,000?
     
  3. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    Well only his of course, all the others are wrong and those gods don't exist. Only his does. He knows this so you'll just have to take his word on that.

    Christians are practically Atheists, it's just that we believe in one less god out of the thousands believed-up than they do.
     
    chelseacarlton likes this.
  4. chelseacarlton

    chelseacarlton BLUE it's the Magic Number

    Carlton
    Other teams:
    The Anti-Theists
    Joined:
    Apr 08
    Posts:
    12,116
    Location:
    So Frang
    I don't think of myself as an atheist because god never even entered the conversation in my house.
    But we easily vanquished and destroyed every religion with fervour,that's why I'm team Anti Theist.
    But for arguments sake let's assume the role of unbeliever or atheist on this occasion and ask him to go that extra one god and become the human that he so despises.
    It is some oddity in his philosophical psychological outrage against "humanity",that he finds "us" disgusting for not honouring consciousness above all creation except this thing he calls god.
    Maybe it's the same thing to him,but he's certainly obsessed with it and his new found love of conspiratorial enquiry.
     
  5. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    Apologies for picking on you specifically.

    But explain how the 'fact' that 'most cultures' believe in a god is in any way evidence that a god or gods exists?

    In fact this shows that all primitive uneducated cultures looked to explain the un-explainable (volcanoes, earthquakes, famines, crops dying out, plagues.... etc. etc.) as they simply weren't intelligent enough to reason out the true origins of their problems. I believe this is called the 'god of the gaps.' You can't explain something so god must have done it.

    All cultures, we can agree, were primitive and uneducated at one point. We know this to be true because it has been proven throughout history and through their trials and discoveries we are now able to live the life we do. So you could say the human race has evolved, evolved to a point now where we can explain why volcanoes erupt, why earthquakes occur, why crops die out, why swarms of locusts destroy whole fields of crops, etc. and I'll give you a hot tip - it's not because of god.

    Anyhow once again if we apply your logic we can argue that Santa and the tooth fairy are real, and the evidence is that so many children across so many countries believe in them at a young age. This would account for a significant portion of the population on the planet, and therefore this is now evidence.
     
  6. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    Wow, truly enlightening post. Thank you Roylion.
     
    paul180 likes this.
  7. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    The bible has been edited upteen times.

    The Quran has not been edited once. Does that mean the Quaran is more, or in actual reality, any less legitimate than the Bible?
     
  8. Procrastinator35

    Procrastinator35 Brownlow Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
    Joined:
    Feb 13
    Posts:
    19,868
    Location:
    The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
    Maybe you could pen a love-poem to him via p.m.o_O
     
  9. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    Let's just go back to the stone age then, shall we?

    Let's stone the homosexuals. Let's own our women as possessions, hell I'm lazy so let's bring back the bible-endorsed slavery because I'll be damned if I'm going to go out and bust my arse in the field. Shit, we won't have to work on Sunday's either.

    And if you argue with me I might just come around and murder you because that's the way it was back then.

    Let's blame science for all of our problems. Science is the reason why people do bad things, yeah? It's not the people with their own individual motivations that cause them to do bad things, it's science.

    Your line of argument is absolutely mind-numbingly stupid and totally absolves us of any sort of accountability for the stupid decisions we make. We are all innocent because science is the real bad guy.

    In short - we, the people, are the cause of our problems. People use science, religion and a myriad of other personal agendas to help meet their ends both good and bad.
     
    The Unforgiven and paul180 like this.
  10. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    Maybe you could offer a single satisfactory point, just one, instead of either deflecting or picking up grammar mistakes in posts.
     
    Total Power likes this.
  11. Present Not Past

    Present Not Past Premiership Player

    St Kilda
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Oct 10
    Posts:
    4,627
    Location:
    Sydney
    What a stupid statement considering how old and how many times these texts have been translated and reproduced.
     

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  12. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    Well that is coming from Muslims themselves and it's something they take pride in, so you take that up with them.
     
    chelseacarlton likes this.
  13. Procrastinator35

    Procrastinator35 Brownlow Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
    Joined:
    Feb 13
    Posts:
    19,868
    Location:
    The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
    Maybe our so-called 'education', tv & 'rushed-lives' blind us to the simple truths?....I'm no where as ready to be so dismissive of 50,000 years of culture in labeling them all as 'primitive' for their beliefs in Gods.

    The breadth & scope of your hubris is duly noted, for the tarp of ignorance it conceals.
     
  14. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    Your poetic words change nothing. These people were primitive and uneducated as a whole, this is an undeniable fact.

    You haven't actually addressed the point of the post and have yet again tried played the deflection card. Try again please, though this time explain to me how in any way all of these primitive societies believing in whatever god(s) they believed in, somehow, is evidence for the existence of their god(s)?

    My point is that these primitive societies believed in their gods due to natural things that occurred around them that they could not explain. To explain these happenings away they claimed that it was their god that did it for whatever reason.

    People don't believe the sun is a god anymore. People don't believe that harsh seas are due to Poseidon being angry. Zues isn't throwing down lightning bolts in anger. Hurricanes aren't god's holy wrath. Swarms of locusts don't eat our crops because god saw two boys kissing. Gaia didn't cause earthquakes, etc. etc.

    Luckily we are smarter now, we are not primitive. We have access to knowledge, and thankfully have scientific breakthroughs that have provided us with the answers that explain away these superstitions kinds of clearly stupid superstitions.

    Anyhow where does 50,000 years come from? The bible tells me the world is only approximately 6,000 years old.
     
  15. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    So at the end of the day we have literally no evidence to ever suggest there is or was or will be an all-powerful god.

    In the corner for (a Christian) god, we have:
    a) an antiquated book full of contradictions, questionable (to put it lightly) morals and stories that are so ridiculous it's no surprise they have been debunked time and time again.
    b) faith, which by definition is the belief in something with literally no evidence to support said belief.
    c) a completely convoluted breakdown of beliefs that the religious cannot agree on within their own religions, let alone across all of the other varying religions spawned throughout the world.

    Meanwhile, in the corner for Atheism we have:
    a) scientific facts and theories.
    b) actual evidence to support said facts and theories.
    c) common sense.

    Well I think that just about wraps this thread up.
     
  16. Total Power

    Total Power Brownlow Medallist

    Port Adelaide
    Other teams:
    Team Rafael Nadal
    Joined:
    Aug 04
    Posts:
    22,402
    Location:
    Grand Finals
    Here we go again, you knocking science, never in doubt. No science no internet, no mobile, no tv, no cable, no medicine, no airplane etc etc and you have to pick on "bombs"?? really? so you reckon if there were no bombs humans will have no other way to kill each other? history hasnt taught you anything. Since when "bombs" been used to commit most mass genocide historically? Humans will kill each other, with bombs or without bombs, that is a given. We are our own worst enemy and more importantly our planets worst enemy. Only fools blame it on science.
     
  17. Total Power

    Total Power Brownlow Medallist

    Port Adelaide
    Other teams:
    Team Rafael Nadal
    Joined:
    Aug 04
    Posts:
    22,402
    Location:
    Grand Finals
    I think that science has an oversupply of mechanistic minded folk, and that those who have a different tangent like Bohm and Planck, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Tesla etc among others are quickly dismissed as tending toward psuedo-science (or because of their contributions to science are more kindly regarded as 'slightly eccentric').

    I also think that theories can be so influenced by world-view. This naturally cuts both ways (see dismissal of above scientific theories above by p35).

    Some scientists professing to understanding "truth" through observation are kidding themselves. They may be just like the prisoners in Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

    "We have observed, named forms and reached concensus...we know the truth!" :eek:

    It is why I much prefer David Bohm's humility in explaining the role of perception in science (specifically quantum mechanics).
     
    Judd2Sewell likes this.
  18. jason pm

    jason pm Norm Smith Medallist

    Brisbane Lions
    Other teams:
    valleys
    Joined:
    Aug 15
    Posts:
    6,303
    Location:
    the scenic rim
    i would call it an appreciation poem P35, i couldn't bring myself to love anyone i conversed with on the google machine. i would need evidence that they were a flesh and blood person before jumping in.

    J2S is such a welcome addition to the god question and alike threads, with J2S, Roy, TP, chelcarl among others on the heathens side we are an unbeatable force, you can't lose when you have commonsense, logic, evidence and peer review on your side.
     
  19. Procrastinator35

    Procrastinator35 Brownlow Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
    Joined:
    Feb 13
    Posts:
    19,868
    Location:
    The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
    Oh?....I'll just make a phone call to God & check on that....One moment please.

    Yes, yes....It's just as I thought....God thinks you're hilarious.
     
  20. Total Power

    Total Power Brownlow Medallist

    Port Adelaide
    Other teams:
    Team Rafael Nadal
    Joined:
    Aug 04
    Posts:
    22,402
    Location:
    Grand Finals
    Serious question, why are you so aggressive all the time? this is internet we dont know each other but it can tell us heaps about the person we are conversing with cause here you can talk without filters. If someone disagrees with you, you can either play the ball or play the man, (i have done both but i make a conscious effort to avoid the latter), it does speak heaps about you as a person. For someone who claims to have an understanding of religion/mythology which apparently promotes tolerance, you are not a very tolerant person at all. Disagreement is fine, sniping and abuse isn't
     
  21. jason pm

    jason pm Norm Smith Medallist

    Brisbane Lions
    Other teams:
    valleys
    Joined:
    Aug 15
    Posts:
    6,303
    Location:
    the scenic rim
    [​IMG]
    next time you speak to him/her ask him/her if she/he wants to submit to the peer review process to prove his/her existence, would be good for the god business you would think.;)
     
    The Unforgiven and Judd2Sewell like this.
  22. Procrastinator35

    Procrastinator35 Brownlow Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
    Joined:
    Feb 13
    Posts:
    19,868
    Location:
    The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
    A peer review on God....Now you are taking the mickey.
     
  23. jason pm

    jason pm Norm Smith Medallist

    Brisbane Lions
    Other teams:
    valleys
    Joined:
    Aug 15
    Posts:
    6,303
    Location:
    the scenic rim
    just working on my comedy skills, seeing god appreciated it so much.;)
     
    Total Power likes this.
  24. Total Power

    Total Power Brownlow Medallist

    Port Adelaide
    Other teams:
    Team Rafael Nadal
    Joined:
    Aug 04
    Posts:
    22,402
    Location:
    Grand Finals
    You know sometimes i feel some people need to take a chill pill and take a long hard look at themselves instead of attacking a certain field of study. Science is our friend, not our enemy, how we use science is upto us, humans. But most advancement in human history has been on the back of science. Science is actually neutral, it doesnt speak about god (cue evolution), yet certain types feel threatened by it.
     
    Judd2Sewell and jason pm like this.
  25. Judd2Sewell

    Judd2Sewell Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Other teams:
    Nuggets
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    5,552
    They're threatened by it because it clearly exposes their long-held 'sacred' beliefs to be an utter sham. That must be a hard thing to face up to.
     
    The Unforgiven and Total Power like this.