Religion The God Question - part 2

[Procrastinator35]

So,it is your contention that consciousness is a supernatural force controlling or guiding our deepest thoughts and ideas?
So no free will then,sounds a bit Totalitarian Pro?

No, there's nothing 'supernatural' about it.....The visible words, audible language, thoughts & ideas become manifest from the invisible consciousness.

 

[chelseacarlton]

No, there's nothing 'supernatural' about it.....The visible words, audible language, thoughts & ideas become manifest from the invisible consciousness.

And what does that have to do with the metaphysical?,because that's what I asked of you,not consciousness,because consciousness belongs to the physical world whether you like it or not!
Show us where something from the metaphysical world that has interacted with the physical world!
Blind faith in magic does not impress me one iota.

 

[Procrastinator35]

And what does that have to do with the metaphysical?,because that's what I asked of you,not consciousness,because consciousness belongs to the physical world whether you like it or not!
Show us where something from the metaphysical world that has interacted with the physical world!
Blind faith in magic does not impress me one iota.

LOL....Such a shame it's both invisible & intangible then....Which was my point to begin with.

Prove that it doesn't exist after death....You cannot....Point it out in it's physical guise....Impossible.
Science is all lost at sea on this point....The visible becomes manifest via the invisible.

And, finally....No one cares about impressing you snookums.

 

[skilts]

No, there's nothing 'supernatural' about it.....The visible words, audible language, thoughts & ideas become manifest from the invisible consciousness.

If this 'consciousness' manifests itself invisibly, how certain can we be in an accurate assessment of it? You seem certain that there's nothing supernatural about it.

Jung, the irredeemable root rat and cultist, rears his ugly head again. You are a devoted follower of a charlatan, because you can't be bothered to think for yourself. It is for this reason that you spend your life in search of redemption in the words of such hucksters, shysters and crooks.

 

[skilts]

Prove that it doesn't exist after death....You cannot.

It is easy to prove it doesn't exist after death - refer to prior to birth. It didn't exist then either.

 

[chelseacarlton]

LOL....Such a shame it's both invisible & intangible then....Which was my point to begin with.

Prove that it doesn't exist after death....You cannot....Point it out in it's physical guise....Impossible.
Science is all lost at sea on this point....The visible becomes manifest via the invisible.

And, finally....No one cares about impressing you snookums.

You're the one claiming it does,therefore,you need to provide the evidence it does.
As Skilts pointed out,does it exist prior as well?
Consciousness is basically just a bunch of neurons electrically firing in a 1.5kg mass of fat and water computer.
Just because we don't understand the total inner workings and may never,doesn't imply a magic sorcerer that supernaturally supervisors our every thought.
It's ******* banal and like akin to totalitarianism.
It's amusing to me in your case,because it reminds me of your fascination with the CIA ala 1984.
You love the supernatural CIA,but despise the one the actually exists in nature and reality.
Absurdlity at its finest!

 

[Present Not Past]

It is easy to prove it doesn't exist after death - refer to prior to birth. It didn't exist then either.

Two unknowns don't make a known

 

[skilts]

Two unknowns don't make a known

How do you know?

 

[chelseacarlton]

Two unknowns don't make a known

It's called reasoned logic,without evidence,we calculate that it doesn't occur until some reasonable evidence appears for us to test and apply and gather substantial and quantifiable data to suggest that it does in fact occur.
That's how anything works.
My old man was an electrical and refrigeration engineer,he said,"always follow the flow to and from and there you will find the answer,otherwise you'll find yourself,dead,don't have faith in how it might work,have knowledge in how it will work,or you're dead".

 

[Procrastinator35]

Two unknowns don't make a known

He may be using mathematical formula, where 2 negatives = a positive.

 

[Procrastinator35]

You're the one claiming it does,therefore,you need to provide the evidence it does.
As Skilts pointed out,does it exist prior as well?
Consciousness is basically just a bunch of neurons electrically firing in a 1.5kg mass of fat and water computer.
Just because we don't understand the total inner workings and may never,doesn't imply a magic sorcerer that supernaturally supervisors our every thought.
It's ******* banal and like akin to totalitarianism.
It's amusing to me in your case,because it reminds me of your fascination with the CIA ala 1984.
You love the supernatural CIA,but despise the one the actually exists in nature and reality.
Absurdlity at its finest!

You're cute when you get all uppity.

And your use of charged words like 'Supernatural', 'Magic Sorcerer' 'Totalitarian' & 'banal' do give me a chuckle....Even if they do add nothing to your attempt at making a sensible or substantial point.

We grasp & apprehend the visible via our senses through our invisible consciousness....Even Plato grasped this compendium of opposites....The pupil is black for a reason....It's a light receptor.

Our sense of self has nothing to do with the firings & inner workings of the brain neurons....That is the hardware, but our psyches are the invisible & innate software.

Finally....Your penultimate sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

It's called reasoned logic,without evidence,we calculate that it doesn't occur until some reasonable evidence appears for us to test and apply and gather substantial and quantifiable data to suggest that it does in fact occur.
That's how anything works.
My old man was an electrical and refrigeration engineer,he said,"always follow the flow to and from and there you will find the answer,otherwise you'll find yourself,dead,don't have faith in how it might work,have knowledge in how it will work,or you're dead".

Reason & logic are but 2 functions of man's consciousness. You cannot subvert man's nature via the use of it's dependent functions.

 

[chelseacarlton]

You're cute when you get all uppity.

And your use of charged words like 'Supernatural', 'Magic Sorcerer' 'Totalitarian' & 'banal' do give me a chuckle....Even if they do add nothing to your attempt at making a sensible or substantial point.

We grasp & apprehend the visible via our senses through our invisible consciousness....Even Plato grasped this compendium of opposites....The pupil is black for a reason....It's a light receptor.

Our sense of self has nothing to do with the firings & inner workings of the brain neurons....That is the hardware, but our psyches are the invisible & innate software.

Finally....Your penultimate sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.



Reason & logic are but 2 functions of man's consciousness. You cannot subvert man's nature via the use of it's dependent functions.

Consciousness is still just a bunch of firing and misfiring electrical neuron impulses or whatever.
Where's the magic or unseen?

Use faith when work with electrical current and you will die,dead.
Use logic and reason and flick a switch and the light will appear.
No magic.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Consciousness is still just a bunch of firing and misfiring electrical neuron impulses or whatever.
Where's the magic or unseen?

Use faith when work with electrical current and you will die,dead.
Use logic and reason and flick a switch and the light will appear.
No magic.

The so-called 'magic' lies within the electrical magnetic current itself....Surely even you can see that.

It's existence is provided for by natural forces, just like our consciousnesses.

Life itself is magical....As too Existence itself....We are animated, self-aware creatures due to the forces that have created us & made our being possible.

All ancient cultures knew this intuitively....It is only modern Western man who suffers under a delusion.

 

[Procrastinator35]

If this 'consciousness' manifests itself invisibly, how certain can we be in an accurate assessment of it? You seem certain that there's nothing supernatural about it.

Jung, the irredeemable root rat and cultist, rears his ugly head again. You are a devoted follower of a charlatan, because you can't be bothered to think for yourself. It is for this reason that you spend your life in search of redemption in the words of such hucksters, shysters and crooks.

Your repeated ad hominem, so far as Jung is concerned, betrays a distinct lack of understanding of his work & thought,...While it is true that he remains an influence of mine, he is by no means the only one....Plato, Aristotle, Campbell, Eliade, Ficino, Otto, Nietzsche, Schuon, Locke & many others, have also shaped & influenced my thought.

Name calling is for children in school yards....Stop being absurd & reductionist.

 

[chelseacarlton]

The so-called 'magic' lies within the electrical magnetic current itself....Surely even you can see that.

It's existence is provided for by natural forces, just like our consciousnesses.

Life itself is magical....As too Existence itself....We are animated, self-aware creatures due to the forces that have created us & made our being possible.

All ancient cultures knew this intuitively....It is only modern Western man who suffers under a delusion.

You are entering darthbards territory friend!
Yes,I can see where some would imply a magical element to certain as yet unknown factors that govern the fabric of our universe.
Dark matter/energy etc,but there is pretty good math that suggests that it does exists,given we know that the universe is exponentially speeding up and not slowing.
"Created us",is infinitely problematic and is suggestive of the infinite regress we've discussed here many times.
Re the bolded,yes I agree,it's a natural phenomenon,most forces that occur in the natural world we have reasonable a understanding of,so where is the magic elixir?
We'll get there!

 

[Procrastinator35]

Yes,I can see where some would imply a magical element to certain as yet unknown factors that govern the fabric of our universe.
Dark matter/energy etc,but there is pretty good math that suggests that it does exists,given we know that the universe is exponentially speeding up and not slowing."Created us",is infinitely problematic and is suggestive of the infinite regress we've discussed here many times.Re the bolded,yes I agree,it's a natural phenomenon,most forces that occur in the natural world we have reasonable a understanding of,so where is the magic elixir? We'll get there!

Well, if or when we ever do, the word for it shall remain God....Like it or not.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Well, if or when we ever do, the word for it shall remain God....Like it or not.

No,I don't like it because it's boring.
Many creative people believe that their creations actually exist beforehand and that they are only given the task of bringing it into the realms of reality,you hear painters sculpters musos talk about it and having a background in this area with many friend still active in these areas,it's a great starting point in which to manifest an outcome.
But really it's just an idea and a journey to which there is an outcome and that's the exciting part.
In the studio,we always talked about happy accidents that gave rise to these outcomes.
If that's the magic,I'm happy to agree with you on that,but it still took the agent to compose or caste or judge what is or isn't the happy accident.
I don't believe in the guided hand I guess,unless of course it's by way of inspiration!

 

[Procrastinator35]

No,I don't like it because it's boring.
Many creative people believe that their creations actually exist beforehand and that they are only given the task of bringing it into the realms of reality,you hear painters, sculptors, musos talk about it and having a background in this area, with many a friend still active in these circles, it's a great starting point in which to manifest an outcome.
But really it's just an idea and a journey to which there is an outcome and that's the exciting part.
In the studio,we always talked about happy accidents that gave rise to these outcomes.
If that's the magic, I'm happy to agree with you on that, but it still took the agent to compose or caste or judge what is or isn't the happy accident.
I don't believe in the guided hand I guess, unless of course it's by way of inspiration!

The Muse works equally well as a concept in harmony with the Godhead....Writers are also very well aware of her....The lady beneath the dragon.

The imagination is quite literally the nation/land of images/ideas....The realm of Plato's forms if you like....It is also where all magic resides & derives from.

Keeping those channels open & unobstructed is always the tricky bit. Especially as an adult.

 

[chelseacarlton]

The Muse works equally well as a concept in harmony with the Godhead....Writers are also very well aware of her....The lady beneath the dragon.

The imagination is quite literally the nation/land of images/ideas....The realm of Plato's forms if you like....It is also where all magic resides & derives from.

Keeping those channels open & unobstructed is always the tricky bit. Especially as an adult.

Agreed.
As a father,my daughter mostly prefers the stories from my brain.
I'm certainly not embarrassed or ashamed that I liberally borrow from the past to embellish my own imagination.
I suppose I'll have to deal with the outcome when she acquires the knowledge,that it is a rarity to fully have a totally pure and original idea.
Not sure that really exists in the modern world,because everything at some point,is inspired by something,moreorless,that preceded it,that's how evolution works.
Without the Gospel we don't have The Blues and then Jazz and Rock and Funk and Disco and Pop and Punk and New Romantic and Hip Hop and Dance and Grunge and Electro and The Mash Up etc.
It all derives from the heart of Africa and the enslavement of people that were driven by the beat of their hearts and the stomping sounds of their connection to the earth by pounding feet and the emotion that they were given redemption,by way of the melody of their forefathers/mothers in fields to which they were subjected to,by way of many stolen generations in combination with the christ fellow.(sorry long sentence).
It's something myself i slave over,given,a predominant amount of early music that reaches deep into me,comes from the inspiration of the book.
I'm considerate in this though and am happy to split my beliefs with my love for the earlier enslavement of the peoples of Africa,Jamaica etc have given me.
My 5 yr old daughters favourite song is Buffalo Soldier,on repeat,for at least an hour or so,I am more than happy to grant her this kindness,as much as it annoys my son and partner.

Here's some Miles,miles ahead of anyone!
So What! cc

 

[Procrastinator35]

I'll run them Miles riding a smooth Coltrane.

 

[chelseacarlton]

I'll run them Miles riding a smooth Coltrane.

Coltrane is god!

 

[chelseacarlton]

Coltrane is god!

Damn boi I'm impressed

 

[Procrastinator35]

Ken Burns 'History of Jazz' in 6 episodes on Youtube....Anything worthwhile on U.S cultural History....He's 'Yo Man'.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Notes

 

[chelseacarlton]

Ken Burns 'History of Jazz' in 6 episodes on Youtube....Anything worthwhile on U.S cultural History....He's 'Yo Man'.

Pro35
I never thought you and I would have something in common,but now I'm a bit like