Religion The God Question - part 2

[Procrastinator35]

The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you

A little education will turn one into an atheist. Whereas, & full & comprehensive education, will bring one back full circle.

It's pretty clear to which camp young Chelsea belongs in.

 

[Total Power]

A little education will turn one into an atheist. Whereas, & full & comprehensive education, will bring one back full circle.

It's pretty clear to which camp young Chelsea belongs in.

I will disagree with that. Most of the "organised religions" thrive in 3rd world countries for a reason. Little education, lack of understanding of science and ignorance above all leads to indoctrination. I have lived a few years in Central and South Asia and i am speaking from experience. Anyone who has been to these parts would know what i am talking about. How many of us really understand spirituality? how many of these religious types understand symbology and mythology? to them hinduism is about cows and demi gods, buddhism is about going to heaven and christianity is about saving yourself from eternal hell of fire. As i said to you before, you must not take anything for granted, including what i said to you about meditation, you must try it yourself like a good scientist would. I encourage atheism cause it questions everything, however the assumption that nothing exists beyond the physical is just a **** assumption.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I will disagree with that. Most of the "organised religions" thrive in 3rd world countries for a reason. Little education, lack of understanding of science and ignorance above all leads to indoctrination. I have lived a few years in Central and South Asia and i am speaking from experience. Anyone who has been to these parts would know what i am talking about. How many of us really understand spirituality? how many of these religious types understand symbology and mythology? to them hinduism is about cows and demi gods, buddhism is about going to heaven and christianity is about saving yourself from eternal hell of fire. As i said to you before, you must not take anything for granted, including what i said to you about meditation, you must try it yourself like a good scientist would. I encourage atheism cause it questions everything, however the assumption that nothing exists beyond the physical is just a **** assumption.

Kinda proves my point really....Most of those 3rd world country's have little to no education at all....Ergo the religiosity.

Coming to know God either through intense introspection/aestheticism or a thorough education are both enlightened routes....Many paths, one truth.

 

[Total Power]

Kinda proves my point really....Most of those 3rd world country's have little to no education at all....Ergo the religiosity.

Coming to know God either through intense introspection/aestheticism or a thorough education are both enlightened routes....Many paths, one truth.

You missed out on another : Blind faith. Do you actually know the practices of such societies and the effect it has on their children/families? people would rather not go to doctors and go to witch doctors instead. That is not "introspection" at all. When faith oppresses its actually harmful. Vast majority of the people in 3rd world countries have **** practices that can be traced back to blind faith. In countries like India, its the priests who become rich by keeping the masses uneducated. Whether Islam, Christianity and Hinduism, these practices exist universally. Have you been to South America? (not as a drunken tourist), its no different to Asia

 

[Procrastinator35]

You missed out on another : Blind faith. Do you actually know the practices of such societies and the effect it has on their children/families? people would rather not go to doctors and go to witch doctors instead. That is not "introspection" at all. When faith oppresses its actually harmful. Vast majority of the people in 3rd world countries have **** practices that can be traced back to blind faith. In countries like India, its the priests who become rich by keeping the masses uneducated. Whether Islam, Christianity and Hinduism, these practices exist universally. Have you been to South America? (not as a drunken tourist), its no different to Asia

You can take the negative spin & I'll stick with the positive.

The 'blind-faith' currently shown in U.S Imperialism, as it destroys the Middle East & other 3rd world nations in the name of oil/greed & progress/materialism, is no different.

 

[Total Power]

View attachment 373061

You do understand what Rumi was talking about here right? in his poems he talks about "him" being god and god being "him" all the time. I am sure you understand what it means. Nothing to do with the subject we are discussing here.

 

[Total Power]

You can take the negative spin & I'll stick with the positive.

The 'blind-faith' currently shown in U.S Imperialism, as it destroys the Middle East & other 3rd world nations in the name of oil/greed & progress/materialism, is no different.

Yet all US presidents been religious. Such a coincidence hey? when will you accept that greed got nothing to do with theism or atheism, its universal.

 

[Procrastinator35]

You do understand what Rumi was talking about here right? in his poems he talks about "him" being god and god being "him" all the time. I am sure you understand what it means. Nothing to do with the subject we are discussing here.

LOL....Young TP....Do cheque the thread topic title before looking the fool once again, with your attempted naive condescension.

Yet all US presidents been religious. Such a coincidence hey? when will you accept that greed got nothing to do with theism or atheism, its universal.

Oh dear....Trump religious....Good one.

Tripping over your own ego I see once more.

 

[Total Power]

LOL....Young TP....Do cheque the thread topic title before looking the fool once again, with your attempted naive condescension.

I am aware of the thread topic and i am telling you the effects of blind faith, i have doubt you have been to places i have been to. You know google doesnt tell you everything, there is a world outside of youtube, do explore when you get time. You complain about ad-homs all the time, yet at the first sign of some disagreement you come back with insults and then its "my ego". Mirror mate mirror. There are alternative point of views and opinions as well, which you thoroughly support when it comes to your agenda but any other view is shut down. Religious fundamentalism at its best.

Oh dear....Trump religious....Good one.

Tripping over your own ego I see once more.

So Trump is an atheist is he? care to provide some evidence?

However trump has been in office for a few months. Which US president been an atheist president?

 

[Total Power]

Oh dear....Trump religious....Good one.

Tripping over your own ego I see once more.

Asked "Who is God to you?" by the Christian Broadcasting Network, Trump answered "God is the ultimate," then began a brief spiel about how he got a great deal on a golf course before circling back to his original definition. "So nobody, no thing, no there's nothing like God."

Yep atheist he is, fits your agenda right.

 

[M Malice]

Hey Total Power what is your take on NDEs? I've been fascinated by these for many decades, most of the stories seem very similar although my logical/commonsense brain dismisses them and tells me it is just a chemical reaction as the lady in the video did. Found it today while scrolling through you tube and found it particularly interesting because it comes form a Biophysicist.

 

[Total Power]

Hey Total Power what is your take on NDEs? I've been fascinated by these for many decades, most of the stories seem very similar although my logical/commonsense brain dismisses them and tells me it is just a chemical reaction as the lady in the video did. Found it today while scrolling through you tube and found it particularly interesting because it comes form a Biophysicist.

What will be ironic to you is that everyone who had (or remembers) an NDE, suits the expanded consciousness side of the argument better. It cannot be drugs, dying brain, fear of death, anoxia etc. or else everybody would have have these experiences.
also, if you've read enough NDE's like I have, you will appreciate that there a staggering amount of detailed accounts, whereby the experiencer can explain their "journey", and even come back saying that there was information which they were told, which was taken from their memory of the experience. Within the experience, they are often told that they will forget the information!

the spiritual argument is that each person has a different path to take. Some require the memory of the NDE in their development, some dont (and some may even not want the memory!). the person experiencing the NDE is imaginary or otherwise, changing from what they thought they were (ie. a physical lump of meat) to a new state of consciousnass. Given that the higher realms of consciousness (or illusion in an atheists case) are not subject to physical constraints, they are able to be shown relatives, places and even the individuals projected image of their gurus or for atheists experience NDE's even a higher state of "awareness". One thing's for sure, they aren't dreams in the sense that noone has an NDE and comes back talking about purple elephants doing cartwheels accross fields of fairy floss! It is a vivid, serious and consistent process and has been well documented for thousands of years.

the stress is on interrelationship between the human body and higher levels of consciousness, whereas atheist would seem to think that the phenomena of the human body is proof enough of the non-existence of anything other than the physical. But again, I am willing to accept that it is brain only, but it is in my opinion definitely not "normal" activity. It is not oxygen deprivation and nor is it endorphins, because such experiences would require brain activity in order to occur and in order to be remembered (presuming conciousness is a "product" of the brain).

 

[skilts]

LOL....Young TP....Do cheque the thread topic title before looking the fool once again, with your attempted naive condescension.

Do check your own spelling before upbraiding someone for alleged lack of attention to the topic.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Do check your own spelling before upbraiding someone for alleged lack of attention to the topic.

Poetic license 'kemosabe'.

 

[Total Power]

Do check your own spelling before upbraiding someone for alleged lack of attention to the topic.

Spamming every thread with conspiracy theories is the way to go i am told.

 

[Total Power]

View attachment 373150

How about you start acting like that? lot of big words followed by ad-homs, petty insults, sniping and shooting alternative views down. You are proof enough that saying "God is great" means next to nothing. What purpose does it serve if you are a d.ckhead? you have zero tolerance for other views, you have no respect for your fellow beings. That was my point to begin with, enlightenement is not chanting 'god is great' ,nor its about professing to have higher knowledge. Empty vessel etc.. Its reflected in how you conduct yourself, your relationships and the lives you touch.

 

[cannot]

I suppose he's offered up some tangible evidence for his bottom of the barrel summation,yes?

he sort of invented the barrels bottom, then the humans proceeded to agree he was spot on

but chelseacarlton has a lot of creditably too so im torn

 

[cannot]

Hey Total Power what is your take on NDEs? I've been fascinated by these for many decades, most of the stories seem very similar although my logical/commonsense brain dismisses them and tells me it is just a chemical reaction as the lady in the video did. Found it today while scrolling through you tube and found it particularly interesting because it comes form a Biophysicist.

there is a lot of 'evidence' people have been 'alive' somewhat after medical death

 

[chelseacarlton]

A little education will turn one into an atheist. Whereas, & full & comprehensive education, will bring one back full circle.

It's pretty clear to which camp young Chelsea belongs in.

If 47 is young,I'll wear the cap proudly.
I've been brutally honest from the start,that I was raised by an anti-theist father and agnostic mother.
Nothing has changed with their particular views of our world.
My mother now has an incurable genetic disorder that gives me 50% chance of acquiring it,which places me in a rather problematic position given I have children.
I haven't had the blood test yet,but will do when I feel the time is right,I just hope that her agnosticism isn't a late recurring symptom.
I'm very comfortable with my position @Procrastinator35,always have been and feel I always will.
It's not through lack of trying to discover a world or worlds beyond the physical,again,as I have divulged many of my attempts to engage the ideas,faiths,beliefs and systems available to all of us on this planet.
After exhaustive and trying personal attempts to seek a higher plane,I was left devoid from what I believed to be cognisant in the human condition.
I looked and felt like Joffa in the first quarter on Saturday night.
So I embraced my fathers stance,that which is,any form of higher order belief is weak,cult-like and damaging to humanity and a personal endeavour and it's greater purpose in this wonderous,spectacular and almost infinite universe.
We are a little virus,albeit,slightly emboldened by a thing some worship called consciousness,eeking out a knifes edge existence on a beautiful little planet buried in the Milky Way,soon to be swallowed by the Andromeda more or less.
Some ******* Master plan,omniscient guy!
Hai I'm cc and this is me!
You say you know more about the divine,I say prove it ya' campaigner!

 

[cannot]

If 47 is young,I'll wear the cap proudly.
I've been brutally honest from the start,that I was raised by an anti-theist father and agnostic mother.
Nothing has changed with their particular views of our world.
My mother now has an incurable genetic disorder that gives me 50% chance of acquiring it,which places me in a rather problematic position given I have children.
I haven't had the blood test yet,but will do when I feel the time is right,I just hope that her agnosticism isn't a late recurring symptom.
I'm very comfortable with my position @Procrastinator35,always have been and feel I always will.
It's not through lack of trying to discover a world or worlds beyond the physical,again,as I have divulged many of my attempts to engage the ideas,faiths,beliefs and systems available to all of us on this planet.
After exhaustive and trying personal attempts to seek a higher plane,I was left devoid from what I believed to be cognisant in the human condition.
I looked and felt like Joffa in the first quarter on Saturday night.
So I embraced my fathers stance,that which is,any form of higher order belief is weak,cult-like and damaging to humanity and a personal endeavour and it's greater purpose in this wonderous,spectacular and almost infinite universe.
We are a little virus,albeit,slightly emboldened by a thing some worship called consciousness,eeking out a knifes edge existence on a beautiful little planet buried in the Milky Way,soon to be swallowed by the Andromeda more or less.
Some ******* Master plan,omniscient guy!
Hai I'm cc and this is me!
You say you know more about the divine,I say prove it ya' campaigner!

as indoctrinated than those than your ridicule

 

[Procrastinator35]

If 47 is young,I'll wear the cap proudly.
I've been brutally honest from the start,that I was raised by an anti-theist father and agnostic mother.
Nothing has changed with their particular views of our world.
My mother now has an incurable genetic disorder that gives me 50% chance of acquiring it,which places me in a rather problematic position given I have children.
I haven't had the blood test yet,but will do when I feel the time is right,I just hope that her agnosticism isn't a late recurring symptom.
I'm very comfortable with my position @Procrastinator35,always have been and feel I always will.
It's not through lack of trying to discover a world or worlds beyond the physical,again,as I have divulged many of my attempts to engage the ideas,faiths,beliefs and systems available to all of us on this planet.
After exhaustive and trying personal attempts to seek a higher plane,I was left devoid from what I believed to be cognisant in the human condition.
I looked and felt like Joffa in the first quarter on Saturday night.
So I embraced my fathers stance,that which is,any form of higher order belief is weak,cult-like and damaging to humanity and a personal endeavour and it's greater purpose in this wonderous,spectacular and almost infinite universe.
We are a little virus,albeit,slightly emboldened by a thing some worship called consciousness,eeking out a knifes edge existence on a beautiful little planet buried in the Milky Way,soon to be swallowed by the Andromeda more or less.
Some ******* Master plan,omniscient guy!
Hai I'm cc and this is me!
You say you know more about the divine,I say prove it ya' campaigner!

Can always depend upon you CC for a sweet rant....Man as but a mere little virus?....Religion is all about honoring human dignity, & representing the best things that can be thought & said about humanity. Of all that is sacred & good in man; including his indomitable sovereign spirit.

My position is very simple.....Remove all the accumulated crud from one's lens, gathered from childhood onwards, & return to one's own true center.....Which does not exist in externals, society nor others.

Our true nature's are divine, as the innocent & fully vulnerable & open baby Jesus is representative of.....It's keeping an open heart in a materialist & competitive rat-race world, that remains the true test of character....Our Western culture is all about seducing us out of ourselves, of alienating us from our own self via mass education, collective socialization & brain-washing through advertising & mass media narratives, that surround us everywhere.

That's the beauty of Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Camus, Kafka & sundry other existentialists.....They return us back to man qua man as the grounds of our being.....Their superlative & insightful representations of what happens to the human soul, trapped in the materialist world of modernity, are true works of art.

Modern Western society is geared 180 degrees against inner enlightenment & knowing thyself.....It teaches us that there is no such thing as the divine or the sacred....What modernity is suffering from is a spiritual bankruptcy.....Such is the legacy of 'The death of God'. For it is we who have killed him/her in ourselves & in others.

You're welcome.

 

[chelseacarlton]

as indoctrinated than those than your ridicule

No no no and no.
You obviously can't read,therefore your point is manure,just like the s**t poured on your clubs doorstep!
Infantlle!

 

[Procrastinator35]

No no no and no.
You obviously can't read, therefore your point is manure, just like the s**t poured on your clubs doorstep!
Infantlle!

No need for this chum....Also, spaces after commas thanks.

And what is this new word you've invented here then?

 

[chelseacarlton]

Can always depend upon you CC for a sweet rant....Man as but a mere little virus?....Religion is all about honoring human dignity, & representing the best things that can be thought & said about humanity. Of all that is sacred & good in man; including his indomitable sovereign spirit.

My position is very simple.....Remove all the accumulated crud from one's lens, gathered from childhood onwards, & return to one's own true center.....Which does not exist in externals, society nor others.

Our true nature's are divine, as the innocent & fully vulnerable & open baby Jesus is representative of.....It's keeping an open heart in a materialist & competitive rat-race world, that remains the true test of character....Our Western culture is all about seducing us out of ourselves, of alienating us from our own self via mass education, collective socialization & brain-washing through advertising & mass media narratives, that surround us everywhere.

That's the beauty of Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Camus, Kafka & sundry other existentialists.....They return us back to man qua man as the grounds of our being.....Their superlative & insightful representations of what happens to the human soul, trapped in the materialist world of modernity, are true works of art.

Modern Western society is geared 180 degrees against inner enlightenment & knowing thyself.....It teaches us that there is no such thing as the divine or the sacred....What modernity is suffering from is a spiritual bankruptcy.....Such is the legacy of 'The death of God'. For it is we who have killed him/her in ourselves & in others.

You're welcome.

Do you actually like art,music,dance,architecture,theatre,sculpture,poetry etc without divine reference?
I do!
I think it's better off without it!
As for the people you quoted,I prefer,Bukowski,Mishima,Baudrillard,Murakami,Samo,White,Picasso,Cobain,Lennoneyc
Religion was the only game in town and "we" will never forget how you persecuted and tortured us back into the Bronze Age stupidity you'd prefer to live in.
Give me Thomas Jefferson,Thomas Paine,Abraham Lincoln,Bertrand Russell,Epicurus,Plato,Socrates over your drab mob every day.
Plus "we" claim the "master of the universe" Albert Einstein every day of the week.
And the Leakey Family,the finders of our humanity!
Rook to King four,
Check.......

 

[chelseacarlton]

No need for this chum....Also, spaces after commas thanks.

And what is this new word you've invented here then?

Infantile you moran!