Analysis The Goldsack Conundrum

[Leviathan Pie]

You are welcome to your opinion. The coach disagrees.

And thats the only opinion that matters it

 

[loki04]

Goldsack should be no where near our forward 50 and even more so Blair!

Tonight showed that class is needed to kick winning scores it has a flow on effect for the entire field!

Fasolo, Karnezis, Elliott, Cloke, White and Degoey should be our starting 6.

Defensive acts as a forward are things that should be secondary ONCE your team has lost possesion or the contest!

All players can chase/harras/tackle etc it really is not HARD.

Buckley and the committee (like MM finally bit the bullet with in 2010) need to be brave and drop some of the lesser skilled hard working types in favour of the young up and coming talent that have class!

I'm extremely concerned the round 1 team will have marginal changes in direct replacements for out going players in Beams, Labumba, Maxwell and Ball.
Changes need to cut deeper to the 22 then that if we are to return to the upper echelon of the ladder.

Great win and excellent youth coming through, Dekka Hine heck me man can YOU please make this coming draft a heavy focus on KPFs and an indigenous x-factor forward or 2 even if rookied (still struggling for genuine silk crumbers!).

 

[loki04]

Comparing Goldsack with Puopolo is not appropriate. Goldsack is a genuine utility who can play all over the ground and does. Rating Goldsack on goals alone fails to acknowledge his other contributions to the team.

Even as a utility I'm afraid to say it he goes missing for far too large of periods in games. Hell I like his attack on the ball too but he quite simply doesn't do enough he is a DEPTH player it's as simple as that.

 

[loki04]

Did you watch the game?

Did you?

He has some good moments but they are few and far between he needs more ball and if forward he needs to be far more dangerous around goal. Facts are he is limited.

 

[HappyRed]

Goldsack has played to many great games of 2014 in recent memory for me to bag him out. I reckon he's a great forward and defender. He's clearly not a Key positon player, but more of a third option. tbh.. He does better then Toovey does often enough IMHO..

 

[jmac70]

Did you?

He has some good moments but they are few and far between he needs more ball and if forward he needs to be far more dangerous around goal. Facts are he is limited.

It was a practice game mate! He did enough to show that our forward pressure is better when he is playing. The fact is that he will be one of the first picked every week. If you want to waste your time bemoaning his role then good luck with that.

 

[loki04]

It was a practice game mate! He did enough to show that our forward pressure is better when he is playing. The fact is that he will be one of the first picked every week. If you want to waste your time bemoaning his role then good luck with that.

I'm not totally against him in the 22 but if we go into 15 with the same fwd set up we had in 14 I'll go bald!

Blair and Goldy can not and must not occupy 2/6 spots in our forward 50.

Imo Goldsack needs to find more consistency over 4 quarters he goes missing for large periods not sure this is too much to ask of a senior player?

 

[Mudeo]

I would actually like to see Goldy being in a rotation off a wing with PK and maybe Crisp, having these 3 players rotating off the wing will cause some match up nightmares for opposition teams, all are a good height and athletic and not many teams will have a match up on a wing for these players. In saying that i think Goldy fumbles to much and panics a little to much with ball in hand and kicks it down the line to often and teams with a player behind the ball kill us. I dont particularly want to see him in defence because of that reason.

 

[Laurie Holden]

Great win and excellent youth coming through, Dekka Hine heck me man can YOU please make this coming draft a heavy focus on KPFs and an indigenous x-factor forward or 2 even if rookied (still struggling for genuine silk crumbers!).

Hine needs the weed! haha.

Moore doesn't count?

 

[loki04]

Hine needs the weed! haha.

Moore doesn't count?

By the time Moore is AFL ready ie able to be a regular top line player, Cloke will near on retirement.

Generally takes a good 4 seasons for KPP to hit their straps, so will need another one developing away in then mean time so it's Moore plus who ever in 4 years or so.

This is assuming Moore lives up to his potential.

 

[Maggie5]

Even as a utility I'm afraid to say it he goes missing for far too large of periods in games. Hell I like his attack on the ball too but he quite simply doesn't do enough he is a DEPTH player it's as simple as that.

When he goes 'missing', are you aware of what his opponent is doing?
I am a big Goldsack fan and more often than not, when he isn't in the play, neither is his opponent.
Don't think I can recall a game when his opponent has starred.

 

[doppleganger]

Tonight showed that class is needed to kick winning scores it has a flow on effect for the entire field!.

Not sure how you came to that outcome from watching the game....
The main difference was our intensity at the ball and then also at Hawthorn, the pressure we placed on them meant they couldn't cut us up like they normally do. Not getting carried away, as they had half their team out and seemed to lack intensity.

The pressure is what results in turn-overs, stoppages and then provides scoring opportunities.

As Dermott kept waffling on about, Fasolo and PK sneaking out the back and hoping for a turnover to give them an easy scoring chance is not how you want your forwards to always play.

Defensive acts as a forward are things that should be secondary ONCE your team has lost possesion or the contest!

All players can chase/harras/tackle etc it really is not HARD.

Performing your role when the team doesn't have the ball is just as important as finishing things off on the scoreboard. Not all players have the fitness/will power/concentration levels to know where to run and position themselves in zone defences, they wont run as hard chasing a player as they do when running onto the ball with a scoring opportunity presenting itself.

Blokes who cant understand defensive systems, who wont chase and harass are liabilities in modern day footy as all you need is one weak link and an entire system can be cut open and then overlaps start and a team has gone coast to coast and scored against us.

Blair was best 22 for the 2nd half of 2010 and all of 2011, when we were playing our best footy with the manic press our biggest strength.

Goldsack unfortunately had his injury/illness problems during that time but still played plenty of footy in our dominant TEAMS.

 

[mike123]

As Dermott kept waffling on about, Fasolo and PK sneaking out the back and hoping for a turnover to give them an easy scoring chance is not how you want your forwards to always play.

Fasolo and PK weren't hoping for a turnover, they read the play well and when the turnover was committed they ran hard into a smart position before the defence. We need guys like these that can read the turnover and capitalise on it otherwise Blair and Goldsack's pressure acts are useless.

 

[doppleganger]

Fasolo and PK weren't hoping for a turnover, they read the play well and when the turnover was committed they ran hard into a smart position before the defence. We need guys like these that can read the turnover and capitalise on it otherwise Blair and Goldsack's pressure acts are useless.

Point being the team was creating turnovers, which enabled us to create easier scoring chances. This was a combination of Hawthorn being off their game, and our boys swarming all over the park.

When coaches assess a forwards game they will rarely rely on stats like goals scored, as they are more concerned about following team instructions, work rate, positioning.

IFF guys like PK, Fas, BenKen, Broomhead, DeGoey can demonstrate that they apply as much defensive pressure, and understand role in defensive systems as well as guys like Goldsack and Blair....that is when their "class" and "talent" will see them picked in preference of them.

They won't get a game if they are defensive liabilities, no matter how "classy" they are, Didak being phased out of the team and having no other team interested in him is evidence of that, he was still a classy finisher but offered nothing defensively.

 

[Old Spice]

Point being the team was creating turnovers, which enabled us to create easier scoring chances. This was a combination of Hawthorn being off their game, and our boys swarming all over the park.

When coaches assess a forwards game they will rarely rely on stats like goals scored, as they are more concerned about following team instructions, work rate, positioning.

IFF guys like PK, Fas, BenKen, Broomhead, DeGoey can demonstrate that they apply as much defensive pressure, and understand role in defensive systems as well as guys like Goldsack and Blair....that is when their "class" and "talent" will see them picked in preference of them.

They won't get a game if they are defensive liabilities, no matter how "classy" they are, Didak being phased out of the team and having no other team interested in him is evidence of that, he was still a classy finisher but offered nothing defensively.

Totally agree with this sentiment. Karnezis gave himself a chance to play the other night not by his ability to find space and score but by his greater defensive intensity which resulted in 5 tackles. He can certainly grab Goldsack's spot if he displays a high defensive intent consistently. People seem to forget that loose defensive efforts lead to turnover and scoring chains (which negate any opportunistic goals). Further to that, any player can score by getting into opportunistic, offensive positions, but when they are not positioned properly the knock on effects put a kink in the whole structure and create turnovers.

 

[Apex36]

Totally agree with this sentiment. Karnezis gave himself a chance to play the other night not by his ability to find space and score but by his greater defensive intensity which resulted in 5 tackles. He can certainly grab Goldsack's spot if he displays a high defensive intent consistently. People seem to forget that loose defensive efforts lead to turnover and scoring chains (which negate any opportunistic goals). Further to that, any player can score by getting into opportunistic, offensive positions, but when they are not positioned properly the knock on effects put a kink in the whole structure and create turnovers.

He's more likely to get Blairs spot than Goldsacks. If Blair were a decent crumber I'd agree, but he's not.

 

[Old Spice]

He's more likely to get Blairs spot than Goldsacks. If Blair were a decent crumber I'd agree, but he's not.

I don't have Blair in my best 22 at the minute although I suspect he might have a spot to lose. In any event, Karnezis will need to show this season he is more than a floating opportunist. If Didak couldn't hold a position on that basis, Karnezis has no chance.

 

[Sloth]

BACK:
Brown Reid Keefe
Goldsack Langdon Frost

FWD:
Fasolo White Elliott
Gault Cloke Karnesis

done and dusted, kippers & custard

 

[Et tu Nathan]

BACK:
Brown Reid Keefe
Goldsack Langdon Frost

FWD:
Fasolo White Elliott
Gault Cloke Karnesis

done and dusted, kippers & custard

Think its too top heavy at both ends Sloth, but especially the Backs.

 

[jmac70]

The only conundrum will be for the defenders of the opposing team as they search haplessly for passing options. The Sack is going to put the squeeze on.

 

[soreplums]

The new holding the ball rule will help the sack out up forward.

One area that he hasn't improved in is his fumbling. Has never been able to pick the ball up from the deck and use his speed to break away or set up opportunities to be damaging

 

[PTpie]

I think unfortunately for the Sack the area that needs the most improvement is public relations with the BF forum fans. If he could just work on that area of his game he would be able to focus on footy and I'm certain we would see improvement in his performance.

Or maybe BF needs to realise replacing a mature player that is driven, committed and plays to the game plan at a high level with an 18 - 20 yr old with less than 10 games but has potential is perhaps not the best move when we already have one of the most inexperienced playing lists in the competition.

 

[Pendles!]

We can't have Goldsack and Blair in the same forward line, neither are attacking enough. One has to drop out for Fasolo/Karnezis to come in.

 

[loki04]

Not sure how you came to that outcome from watching the game....
The main difference was our intensity at the ball and then also at Hawthorn, the pressure we placed on them meant they couldn't cut us up like they normally do. Not getting carried away, as they had half their team out and seemed to lack intensity.

The pressure is what results in turn-overs, stoppages and then provides scoring opportunities.

As Dermott kept waffling on about, Fasolo and PK sneaking out the back and hoping for a turnover to give them an easy scoring chance is not how you want your forwards to always play.

Performing your role when the team doesn't have the ball is just as important as finishing things off on the scoreboard. Not all players have the fitness/will power/concentration levels to know where to run and position themselves in zone defences, they wont run as hard chasing a player as they do when running onto the ball with a scoring opportunity presenting itself.

Blokes who cant understand defensive systems, who wont chase and harass are liabilities in modern day footy as all you need is one weak link and an entire system can be cut open and then overlaps start and a team has gone coast to coast and scored against us.

Blair was best 22 for the 2nd half of 2010 and all of 2011, when we were playing our best footy with the manic press our biggest strength.

Goldsack unfortunately had his injury/illness problems during that time but still played plenty of footy in our dominant TEAMS.

I got that from watching our more classy players set up goals, kick goals, be dangerous enough to have their opponents stick to them as opposed to running off or clogging our f50 which leads to more space and the fact they were for the most part doing the defensive acts too.

2014 further proves my point which was an ultra defensive set up thar struggled to kick a winning score most weeks despite the defense being top 4 most the year for conceding.

Pressure needs to be applied not only defensively but offensively too.

I guess my tl:dr is pressure is all well and good but if you lack class to capitalize and make the f50 cohesive and dangerous then u end up with 2014 season.

 

[northpie]

BACK:
Brown Reid Keefe
Goldsack Langdon Frost

FWD:
Fasolo White Elliott
Gault Cloke Karnesis

done and dusted, kippers & custard

Gault on rookie list so cant play unless a senior spot becomes vacant through injury