Review The Grand Final Disaster of 2017.

[fairfooty]

I guess I'm left with the question that how proactive would Walsh have been prior to the whole 'issue' - foresighted or responding ?

Good question - but I reckon he would have done the same as Pykey - 'team first'.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I said this before the grand final and was told it would be cutting off our nose despite our face. Easy in hindsight when you lose. Would have been better if we had shown some foresight.

I think you're misunderstanding what is being said here

 

[CrowBloke]

She watched the game and at the time said there was something else going on here

Yeah, that's definitely the feeling I got at halftime, watching the group sitting miserably in the room.

 

[Keilor Tiger]

Hi Crows fans. Just wanted to jump on your board to say how impressed I was with your supporters on Saturday. There was plenty of noise and support early but even when things went our way the crowd stayed to the end. I was surrounded by Crows but no abuse by either groups of supporters and no bad blood. Even at the bars with alcohol involved later your supporters were congratulating us and engaging in good natured chat. Kudos when its due and good luck next year.

 

[mick500]

I was the first one to say I would of told lever “thanks for your services but unless you’re planning on signing a contract right now you won’t be playing in a gf” after the prelim (knowing full well he wasn’t going to be signing on).

And I honestly appplaud any player who also had that view, if he’s not with us he’s against us.. as the reports of his dad bad mouthing the club before the gf suggest.

But once he’s selected, and you have had that conversation with pyke you have to move on. And quickly. It’s a gf. Don’t let bullshit get in the way. Sounds like lever and his dad brought the bullshit with him on gf day tho.

If this teaches us anything it’s that if a player doesn’t want to be there we probably shouldn’t play them at all imo. And if Charlie wants to go home we should do a deal now to get what we can for him. Not everyone has the character of Gibbs and will perform at a club he wants out from.

Also, if jake was leaving and he’s so great with his fists I wish he started swinging them at qtr time when he started getting worked up.

 

[captain blood 17]

Its probably somewhere in between. Clarkson was interviewed in the lead up to the game and mentioned that they meet up weekly and have done for a long time. It was insinuated Clarkson was in a mentoring type role. And no problem there. If you've got access to any resources that can give an advantage, why not utilise them.

Dimma was an assistant coach under him during a premiership year.


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[captain blood 17]

Are you Hardwick, Clarkson, or one of the playing group? If yes, thanks for the insider info, which suggests that the win was inevitable, based on the past.

If not, then your post is laughable, if not ridiculous, and here's why.
How would you know what Hardwick/Clarkson/ the players "knew"?
How would you know what Hardwick and Clarkson were talking about just after the PF and during the week? Do you think for a second that Hardwick didn't ask Clarkson for some ideas?

Did they also know that in every 2017 game where the Crows led at quarter time, they won? Better give up, then, eh? (which is just as silly)

Stick to emphatic and/or orgiastic posting in your Board, mate, and leave the knowing up to Hardwick and his players.

I was stating facts is all. And some of us do know people associated with the club. You're welcome.


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[CrowBloke]

And some of us do know people associated with the club.

*yawn*
You must be really important then. Show yourself out, thanks.

 

[Handyandy]

I am not trolling or trying to incite the Hatfield & McCoy fued between the 2 clubs, I have read all the posts on this thread & thought I would make a few respectful observations. I have followed both sa teams very closely for a very long time and like to think I have grown wiser with age.
Crows supporters shouldn't throw the baby out with the wash water.
Clearly the best team all season but failed at the last hurdle.
I think the comp is so even that if one team brings its A game and the other is 5% off then it's a 10 goal spanking. As we saw repeatedly in the final series.
There is a huge difference in ground sizes which is very significant. Taller stronger teams seem to play the smaller grounds well whilst smaller faster teams with outside run play the big grounds like the mcg better. I have noted this phenomen for a while now, port always thumped the eagles at footy park/ subi but we can't beat them at the narrow gutted adelaide oval.
I thought crows went too tall at selection, particularly in defence and particularly on the expanses of the g against the tigers fleet of small.
Also thought Pyke needed a plan b, he could have thrown ottens or walker into ruck, done something radical before the game slipped away.
Also thought Jacobs would be most dominant player, picked him for norm smith but tigers turned that to their advantage by sharking his taps all day.
Also thought crows silky defence would rebound the ball brilliantly up the centre corridor, as they did in 1st qtr and as they have done all season, but again tigers small fast forwards were able to harass them into mistakes, denying them use of centre corridor and forcing them into rushed kicks up the wing.
I knew the umps would favour the tigers too, no use bemoaning the fact. Gf will always be played at the mcg & umps will always favour the vic teams at home. Interstate clubs need to be better + to counter this. After half time I didn't think umps effected the outcome.
Also thought the crows were so dominant during the season that they didn't have too many tough close games to prepare them, whilst tigers played 2 months of tough close games to harden them leading up the big dance. You learn more from losses than wins and winning big all the time can cause you to gloss over some of your weaknesses.
Not sure about the lever thing affecting the players, pure speculation, but crows didn't look like a united team.
Also the crows consistently high finishing position has denied them higher draft picks for a good many years so I think pyke and selectors have done well. Though star retention is becoming an issue.
All of these points have been discussed at length previously but one thing that hasn't been touched upon is positioning. I noted in both showdowns that port players would charge into the contest like a barbarian horde, outnumbering the crows around the ball. Whilst the crows would concede this advantage, they would have 2 or 3 players stationed 5-10 metres off the contest ready to intercept, tackle, smother should the ball go to the opposition, or ready to receive and run if the crows won it. A clear and obvious tactic that worked brilliantly in previous games but backfired badly in the gf as tigers had 2 or 3 players who were able to create space in the congestion and run away with it easily. Whilst the crows had a couple of guys hanging around the outside of the contest like seagulls waiting for a chip.
I hope you guys aren't offended, just my opinion.

 

[captain blood 17]

*yawn*
You must be really important then. Show yourself out, thanks.

Sorry for providing perspective on a club some of you posters know nothing about. Cherio and have a great off season.


Sent from my iPhone using Righteous Man Power.

 

[Jaeger]

Just gotta keep knocking on the door and eventually it will open.

Me and Pykey... great minds and that

 

[King Elvis]

I am not trolling or trying to incite the Hatfield & McCoy fued between the 2 clubs, I have read all the posts on this thread & thought I would make a few respectful observations. I have followed both sa teams very closely for a very long time and like to think I have grown wiser with age.
Crows supporters shouldn't throw the baby out with the wash water.
Clearly the best team all season but failed at the last hurdle.
I think the comp is so even that if one team brings its A game and the other is 5% off then it's a 10 goal spanking. As we saw repeatedly in the final series.
There is a huge difference in ground sizes which is very significant. Taller stronger teams seem to play the smaller grounds well whilst smaller faster teams with outside run play the big grounds like the mcg better. I have noted this phenomen for a while now, port always thumped the eagles at footy park/ subi but we can't beat them at the narrow gutted adelaide oval.
I thought crows went too tall at selection, particularly in defence and particularly on the expanses of the g against the tigers fleet of small.
Also thought Pyke needed a plan b, he could have thrown ottens or walker into ruck, done something radical before the game slipped away.
Also thought Jacobs would be most dominant player, picked him for norm smith but tigers turned that to their advantage by sharking his taps all day.
Also thought crows silky defence would rebound the ball brilliantly up the centre corridor, as they did in 1st qtr and as they have done all season, but again tigers small fast forwards were able to harass them into mistakes, denying them use of centre corridor and forcing them into rushed kicks up the wing.
I knew the umps would favour the tigers too, no use bemoaning the fact. Gf will always be played at the mcg & umps will always favour the vic teams at home. Interstate clubs need to be better + to counter this. After half time I didn't think umps effected the outcome.
Also thought the crows were so dominant during the season that they didn't have too many tough close games to prepare them, whilst tigers played 2 months of tough close games to harden them leading up the big dance. You learn more from losses than wins and winning big all the time can cause you to gloss over some of your weaknesses.
Not sure about the lever thing affecting the players, pure speculation, but crows didn't look like a united team.
Also the crows consistently high finishing position has denied them higher draft picks for a good many years so I think pyke and selectors have done well. Though star retention is becoming an issue.
All of these points have been discussed at length previously but one thing that hasn't been touched upon is positioning. I noted in both showdowns that port players would charge into the contest like a barbarian horde, outnumbering the crows around the ball. Whilst the crows would concede this advantage, they would have 2 or 3 players stationed 5-10 metres off the contest ready to intercept, tackle, smother should the ball go to the opposition, or ready to receive and run if the crows won it. A clear and obvious tactic that worked brilliantly in previous games but backfired badly in the gf as tigers had 2 or 3 players who were able to create space in the congestion and run away with it easily. Whilst the crows had a couple of guys hanging around the outside of the contest like seagulls waiting for a chip.
I hope you guys aren't offended, just my opinion.

Not offended - your spot on.

 

[mick500]

one thing that hasn't been touched upon is positioning. I noted in both showdowns that port players would charge into the contest like a barbarian horde, outnumbering the crows around the ball. Whilst the crows would concede this advantage, they would have 2 or 3 players stationed 5-10 metres off the contest ready to intercept, tackle, smother should the ball go to the opposition, or ready to receive and run if the crows won it. A clear and obvious tactic that worked brilliantly in previous games but backfired badly in the gf as tigers had 2 or 3 players who were able to create space in the congestion and run away with it easily. Whilst the crows had a couple of guys hanging around the outside of the contest like seagulls waiting for a chip.
I hope you guys aren't offended, just my opinion.

Fair observation. And a good understanding of why we get beaten badly when we get beaten. And why we go for long periods without being able to touch the footy.

I noticed this happening against Geelong in the 2nd qtr and we couldn't win a centre clearance so we put Cameron on the back of the square to stem the flow and it worked.

Not sure if we tried similar in the GF or not.

 

[Handyandy]

Fair observation. And a good understanding of why we get beaten badly when we get beaten. And why we go for long periods without being able to touch the footy.

I noticed this happening against Geelong in the 2nd qtr and we couldn't win a centre clearance so we put Cameron on the back of the square to stem the flow and it worked.

Not sure if we tried similar in the GF or not.

You would have to be at the ground to tell if this was the case or not.
Port won 3 minor premierships in a row, but it took 2 before the penny dropped.
The style of footy that wins a minor premiership is not the same that wins a gf.
Port had to adjust their game plan, cut some front runners & bring in some in some hard nuts to finally crack it. Crows are probably at a similar stage now.
Interesting that the last 2 premiers had small forward lines, pressuring the defence is more important than tall pack marking in the forward line now it would appear

 

[robboaustralia]

Just flicked through first qtr for the first time since I attended the gf. 11pts up at qtr time. Wow we were fumbly. Sloane even fumbled for his 2nd goal. Not sure what the Rance free was for against Jenkins so Bruce tells me. Hmm the Richmond guy just throwing his body back in dual with cameron. Atkins shocking play on advantage. Can't watch the rest yet. Might need a sick bag.

 

[Samcro24]

You would have to be at the ground to tell if this was the case or not.
Port won 3 minor premierships in a row, but it took 2 before the penny dropped.
The style of footy that wins a minor premiership is not the same that wins a gf.
Port had to adjust their game plan, cut some front runners & bring in some in some hard nuts to finally crack it. Crows are probably at a similar stage now.
Interesting that the last 2 premiers had small forward lines, pressuring the defence is more important than tall pack marking in the forward line now it would appear

Good post.

1. Minor round wins can be overrated. It's a bug bear of mine. We get 12 games at home and history shows the bottom 10-12 can be incredibly average. Easy to bank cheap wins. Look at us finishing top, just the 1 away game vs a top 4 team. Look at port nearly making top 4 despite poor record vs top 8. Team should be judged on the high pressure/difficulty games.

2. We have had a gun full back for about 12 seasons (rutten then talia) and generally a second tall who can defend well. Often means that one is shut down completely, effectively the opposition is one short. If they go small this becomes a problem. I remember thinking we'd be much better off if in the GF if Richmond still had vickery.

 

[FR0GGY]

I naively thought player contracts wouldn't impact match day but obviously they do. So how do we stop this from happening again in the future. If they haven't signed by round 20 banish them from the club?

JJ admitted this year that they do in a roundabout way. Said when the McGovern news was told the lift in the room was enormous.

 

[Geoffa32]

Lever was contracted for this year. Which means we pick the best 22 for this year and if the other players had an issue with him in the side it is their problem to let it bother them.

This is a professional sport and the players must realise this. Especially the ones we have recruited from other clubs.

The reason the club has turned on Lever since is the BS line he wants to take in being homesick when we know the truth. Not to mention his dump run has barely been refuted by his camp and the way bus camp have used the media. Not even Dangerfield had an exclusive channel 7 interview to announce bus intentions.

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[GreyCrow]

Interesting that the last 2 premiers had small forward lines, pressuring the defence is more important than tall pack marking in the forward line now it would appear

Wow we were fumbly

My brother said this at the game

This leads to something I noticed and especially our forwards. And not just the GF. Players/forwards dont seem to grab the ball as much for the mark but use soft hands to bump the ball and 2nd grab. Tex used to be such a strong grab of the ball and now he looks as if its a bump grab attempt, which then gives defenders more time and options to spoil. JJ does it a lot as well.

I wonder if its a coaching direction or a lack of marking strength which hen follows the comments by handyandy. It then becomes a game of the defenders knowing there is a chance at it so the extra effort is there. Just a thought

 

[Slippery Pete]

One thing Pyke and the coaching group have to take responsbility for is they didn't produce a team that had "bad day insurance."

If you look at the team's results throughout the year, this really starts to become clear. I can't think of one game where we had to grind to win, where we won in spite of having a bad day, where we won narrowly, or where we came from behind to win. Maybe that Collingwood game, but that wasn't a win.

These traits are almost always hallmarks of premiership teams, because relying on having 3 or 4 good days in succession during a finals series puts you right in the lap of the gods.

The finals we won against GWS and Geelong were textbook "good day" games.

The 1997 prelim is an example of what I'm talking about. The team had just about the worst day imaginable. Played horribly for almost three quarters. Kicked 12.21. But won.

Look at Geelong in the 2007 prelim. Played almost their worst game for the year. But won. And then went on to win three flags.

That is Pyke's challenge, to build a team that can win when they're having a s**t day.

 

[TrainRoo32]

Jumping at shadows a little,
But I’m sensing a 2012 type off season!
And I think next year might be a 2013 type year

 

[Scorpus]

One thing Pyke and the coaching group have to take responsbility for is they didn't produce a team that had "bad day insurance."

If you look at the team's results throughout the year, this really starts to become clear. I can't think of one game where we had to grind to win, where we won in spite of having a bad day, where we won narrowly, or where we came from behind to win. Maybe that Collingwood game, but that wasn't a win.

These traits are almost always hallmarks of premiership teams, because relying on having 3 or 4 good days in succession during a finals series puts you right in the lap of the gods.

The finals we won against GWS and Geelong were textbook "good day" games.

The 1997 prelim is an example of what I'm talking about. The team had just about the worst day imaginable. Played horribly for almost three quarters. Kicked 12.21. But won.

Look at Geelong in the 2007 prelim. Played almost their worst game for the year. But won. And then went on to win three flags.

That is Pyke's challenge, to build a team that can win when they're having a s**t day.

The solution is uncompromising toughness at the football and showing at selection that putting in the wrong level of effort at any time is unacceptable.

If our skills are off, if our transition is off, if we are struggling at clearances, fine. But if you don't play hard and don't put in effort, you'll enjoy some time in the SANFL

 

[Bone71]

You think there's no AO bias and you think I'm blind? Everyone except Adelaide and Port fans KNOW there's an AO umpiring bias. It's discussed in the commentary every time a game is played there. As I said, same with Kardinia Park and Subi. The crowd influence the umpires. That's fine but don't sook when it goes against you here. What comes around, goes around. I agree with the Betts one, that was a bad miss, but the umpires didn't kill you 12-4 - your players did with undisciplined football.

Go * yourself. You have just made the argument for why the MCG should not be the only venue to hold the GF. Should be a neutral venue at all times dickhead and certain not the lower ranked teams home ground EVER. You argue that the non vic sides have an advantage at home but conveniently forget that it rubs the other way.

You vics spend all your time crying about having to play so many "neutral" games against other vic clubs but all that means is that if you are the best vic side in any given year you are likely to win the vast majority of those"neutral away" games along with your "neutral home" games. Non vics sides that are good are more likely to drop more away games because they are AWAY games with the crap crowd bias that goes along with it.

Simply getting to play the GF on your home ground in front of a crowd mostly made up of your supporters when you DID NOT EARN IT is unbelievably crap and you can justify it all you like but it does not change the fact that your club had an advantage it did not deserve.

 

[FrustratedTiger]

Go **** yourself. You have just made the argument for why the MCG should not be the only venue to hold the GF. Should be a neutral venue at all times dickhead and certain not the lower ranked teams home ground EVER. You argue that the non vic sides have an advantage at home but conveniently forget that it rubs the other way.

You vics spend all your time crying about having to play so many "neutral" games against other vic clubs but all that means is that if you are the best vic side in any given year you are likely to win the vast majority of those"neutral away" games along with your "neutral home" games. Non vics sides that are good are more likely to drop more away games because they are AWAY games with the crap crowd bias that goes along with it.

Simply getting to play the GF on your home ground in front of a crowd mostly made up of your supporters when you DID NOT EARN IT is unbelievably crap and you can justify it all you like but it does not change the fact that your club had an advantage it did not deserve.

Polite bunch you are, aren't you? You were clearly not at the game because if you were you'd know that the Adelaide supporters who were there at the start of the game were loud, louder than we were and I was sitting above our cheer squad. They were awesome. It was only once we got on top that they quietened down and our noise got on top.

At the end of the day, you guys can sook all you like, the Grand Final is played at the MCG, no amount of interstate whinging when you lose will change that, and YOU CAN USE ALL THE CAP LOCKS YOU LIKE IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER, but RICHMOND are the 2017 PREMIERS. Your club can focus on making pathetic excuses like the supporters have all week or they can focus on why your players and coaches got stagefright on the biggest stage of the year and do something about it.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

Polite bunch you are, aren't you? You were clearly not at the game because if you were you'd know that the Adelaide supporters who were there at the start of the game were loud, louder than we were and I was sitting above our cheer squad. They were awesome. It was only once we got on top that they quietened down and our noise got on top.

At the end of the day, you guys can sook all you like, the Grand Final is played at the MCG, no amount of interstate whinging when you lose will change that, and YOU CAN USE ALL THE CAP LOCKS YOU LIKE IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER, but RICHMOND are the 2017 PREMIERS. Your club can focus on making pathetic excuses like the supporters have all week or they can focus on why your players and coaches got stagefright on the biggest stage of the year and do something about it.

Thanks for the lecture but many of us have been dissecting the game over many posts and recognise that the mcg is only one factor. This is our board , so stop waving your dick around . Good bye.