The great blackout of 2016

[Vhaluus]

Because science one of the least densely populated countries in the world which uses that land to feed and power the world should not be subject to criticism for a biased and prejudiced “emissions per capita” stat.

Now someone remove these rubbish posts from the great JO thread.

the coal we export doesn't count against our CO2 emissions, only what we burn here.

That being said the power coal that we export is becoming increasingly unviable economically but we keep doubling down on it for some reason.

Coking coal however is still a necessary evil given there's not really any alterantive for it. But again given the vast majority is burnt overseas does not count against our emissions.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

the coal we export doesn't count against our CO2 emissions, only what we burn here.

That being said the power coal that we export is becoming increasingly unviable economically but we keep doubling down on it for some reason.

Coking coal however is still a necessary evil given there's not really any alterantive for it. But again given the vast majority is burnt overseas does not count against our emissions.

The coal doesn’t dig itself out the ground and put itself on ships

 

[Vhaluus]

The coal doesn’t dig itself out the ground and put itself on ships

Every nation on earth has some sort of industry that produces emissions.

We're not some special butterfly in that regard.

Part the fact that burning the coal produces order of magnitude more emissions than digging it up.

If we'd transitioned nationally to renewable powers like a lot of other countries had done we'd be in a lot better shape.

 

[1970crow]

I'm certainly not advocating we do nothing. We all can, and should, make choices to make our own small contribution, however it won't amount to anything if government doesn't force industry to get on board.

And it makes the 'well if you're not carbon neutral how dare you lecture industry!' a truly disingenuous argument.

Why, if you're not going to act commensurate with your claims, then you're a hypocrite. You're the one arguing that my view that we need to protect those on the margins and progress at an appropriate is wrong. But you flatly refused to act in the same manner you're trying to tell me is necessary. Sure, makes sense.

 

[Geoffa32]

So less emissions by keeping sauce in the cupboard too.
Everyone should do their bit for the environment.

Noticed the other day we have two open bottles of sauce. One in the fridge. The other in the pantry.

Geoffa household is carbon neutral.






Although I did put one of the bottles in the proper place.........

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[Sanders]

China is not attending COP26 as it does not want to make any new commitments, and has recently increased coal consumption by 13% in response to the current energy crisis

my question: who is boycotting Chinese goods, and lobbying for Australia to stop selling them coal?

if you’re not going to the mattresses over this, pipe down and leave the homage to the great man alone

 

[MarcusP2]

China is not attending COP26 as it does not want to make any new commitments, and has recently increased coal consumption by 13% in response to the current energy crisis

my question: who is boycotting Chinese goods, and lobbying for Australia to stop selling them coal?

if you’re not going to the mattresses over this, pipe down and leave the homage to the great man alone

Are we still selling them thermal coal? I thought they boycotted us.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Golumless]

This is why I can't see the human race ever reversing climate change.

Basic principles of production. To produce an item you essentially have to generate energy/carbon as part of any production process.

Even using recycled resources requires energy.


We all like gadgets and consumerables. That won't stop.


Closest the human race came to implementing what is needed to drastically halt climate change was peak COVID global shut-down. We can't sustain that.


Trying is good, but I reckon we have gone past the tipping point, and future generations will just adapt.

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We do most likely survive climate change, and given enough time, inevitably climate change will be reversed (and likely pushed into the other direction) if we survive long enough. The scars will be present for a long, long time though even if we do. They're present now.

Really the solution isn't stopping gadgets/consumerables, because any solution that starts at that line is dead on arrival. The game is changing how they're created to make it more efficient, and thereby lower emitting scenarios, and it's certainly doable... with political, and more importantly market will. It's also quite convenient the things that need to be fixed are potential breakpoints for any civilization. How we create energy, and food security/land usage being the two big ones. Whilst you'll emit some carbon from the creation of renewables, it's orders of magnitude lower than burning it for energy. Same deal with changing how cars (and more importantly trucks) operate to EV. Food security is a trickier beast and one we're probably only starting to scratch the surface in terms of being able to solve (creating meat from stem cells, vertical farming and other potentially more consistent methods of growing food that's detached from our climate system etc). It's buying time, sure, but that's arguably all we really need.

I disagree that we've gone past the tipping point, though we are getting closer to it. We've gone past a suspected ones, I.e. Amazon starting to emit carbon due to being overwhelmed/land clearance/degradation etc, though others are harder to say at this point. Antarctica is holding up, despite thinning (which is scary in its own right), the true lungs of the world, the ocean, hasn't started emitting more carbon than it's trapping etc.

Peak Covid really showed one thing; it really isn't a case of everyone is in it together, or changing habits will fix this. It's a case of changing methods. That's ultimately fixable, and has been done in the past. I.e. the hole in the ozone is starting to repair after we banned the use of cloroflurocarbons.

 

[Geoffa32]

We do most likely survive climate change, and given enough time, inevitably climate change will be reversed (and likely pushed into the other direction) if we survive long enough. The scars will be present for a long, long time though even if we do. They're present now.

Really the solution isn't stopping gadgets/consumerables, because any solution that starts at that line is dead on arrival. The game is changing how they're created to make it more efficient, and thereby lower emitting scenarios, and it's certainly doable... with political, and more importantly market will. It's also quite convenient the things that need to be fixed are potential breakpoints for any civilization. How we create energy, and food security/land usage being the two big ones. Whilst you'll emit some carbon from the creation of renewables, it's orders of magnitude lower than burning it for energy. Same deal with changing how cars (and more importantly trucks) operate to EV. Food security is a trickier beast and one we're probably only starting to scratch the surface in terms of being able to solve (creating meat from stem cells, vertical farming and other potentially more consistent methods of growing food that's detached from our climate system etc). It's buying time, sure, but that's arguably all we really need.

I disagree that we've gone past the tipping point, though we are getting closer to it. We've gone past a suspected ones, I.e. Amazon starting to emit carbon due to being overwhelmed/land clearance/degradation etc, though others are harder to say at this point. Antarctica is holding up, despite thinning (which is scary in its own right), the true lungs of the world, the ocean, hasn't started emitting more carbon than it's trapping etc.

Peak Covid really showed one thing; it really isn't a case of everyone is in it together, or changing habits will fix this. It's a case of changing methods. That's ultimately fixable, and has been done in the past. I.e. the hole in the ozone is starting to repair after we banned the use of cloroflurocarbons.

Any solution being suggested now is really just kicking the can down the road.

BBC World radio have done a series about countries countries going carbon neutral.


Denmark being applauded for doing so.

Easy to do when the service sector makes up 75% of your GDP and agriculture plus mining less than 3%.

Citizens of Denmark need food, and goods made with raw materials. So another country has to "fail" at being carbon neutral for them to succeed. Overall affect on Climate change is nil.

There is no efficient way to create steel/concrete/plastics in the scale (globally) to supply all the products us humans want, and reverse Climate Change.




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[feenix67]

Really the only long term solution to carbon emissions is population density. We are part of the Earth's eco system, and by their very nature eco systems tend to self balance. There will be events that lead to the thinning of the Earth's human population and those remaining will hopefully retain sufficient technological knowledge to thrive in a more sustainable fashion.

Meanwhile, Elon's spending all his Bitcoin getting out of dodge. What does that tell you.

 

[Mutineer]

Really the only long term solution to carbon emissions is population density. We are part of the Earth's eco system, and by their very nature eco systems tend to self balance. There will be events that lead to the thinning of the Earth's human population and those remaining will hopefully retain sufficient technological knowledge to thrive in a more sustainable fashion.

Meanwhile, Elon's spending all his Bitcoin getting out of dodge. What does that tell you.

1970crow love him or hate him has been saying this for as long as I've been on Big Footy and he's bang on.
I look at all the housing development going gangbusters around Ballarat and Bendigo currently, large blocks that are almost completely taken up by the home itself, hardly any backyard for the kids to run wild in and not one with a Hills Hoist or similar (no room) so of course the energy burning clothes dryers are employed instead of the old fashioned methods, then you look at Mum picking the kids up from school in the petrol/diesel guzzling family "tractor", gone in the main are the days of kid's walking or cycling to school

 

[StonesThrow]

1970crow love him or hate him has been saying this for as long as I've been on Big Footy and he's bang on.
I look at all the housing development going gangbusters around Ballarat and Bendigo currently, large blocks that are almost completely taken up by the home itself, hardly any backyard for the kids to run wild in and not one with a Hills Hoist or similar (no room) so of course the energy burning clothes dryers are employed instead of the old fashioned methods, then you look at Mum picking the kids up from school in the petrol/diesel guzzling family "tractor", gone in the main are the days of kid's walking or cycling to school

Yep. That's why we need better planning laws. High density corridors with sufficient green space. Low density areas must have a larger minimum outdoor space. Building codes need to be stricter on energy efficiency standards to reduce reliance on AC and huge solar systems. You obviously can't force people to reduce hardscaping their entire backyards, so these shitty need estates should be obliged to regenerate green spaces and recycle run off water

Real estate /property industry needs to be held accountable for driving 'consumer demand' for unnecessarily large houses with butlers' pantries, media rooms, theatre rooms, extra bedrooms for 'resale value' etc...

I don't see it changing though.

 

[feenix67]

Yep. That's why we need better planning laws. High density corridors with sufficient green space. Low density areas must have a larger minimum outdoor space. Building codes need to be stricter on energy efficiency standards to reduce reliance on AC and huge solar systems. You obviously can't force people to reduce hardscaping their entire backyards, so these shitty need estates should be obliged to regenerate green spaces and recycle run off water

Real estate /property industry needs to be held accountable for driving 'consumer demand' for unnecessarily large houses with butlers' pantries, media rooms, theatre rooms, extra bedrooms for 'resale value' etc...

I don't see it changing though.

It's actually councils and development agencies that need to be held accountable. It's laughable they all have bullshit tree policies but allow unsustainable development.

 

[1970crow]

Looks like common sense starting to prevail with the push for nuclear to replace coal/gas. See what happens here.

 

[Mutineer]

Looks like common sense starting to prevail with the push for nuclear to replace coal/gas. See what happens here.

Wonder how Kane McGoodwin battery powered house is going, seems problems occurring with some batteries in both household and systems and electric vehicles.....not too mention the problems arising from recycling certain elements used in their manufacture along with components that aren't recyclable headed for landfill.

Thousands of electric cars and home batteries are being recalled in Australia. This is what's happening to the waste

Australians may have only just started buying electric cars and household batteries – but several product recalls are showing that a national plan for dealing with renewable energy waste may already be needed.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Wonder how Kane McGoodwin battery powered house is going, seems problems occurring with some batteries in both household and systems and electric vehicles.....not too mention the problems arising from recycling certain elements used in their manufacture along with components that aren't recyclable headed for landfill.

Thousands of electric cars and home batteries are being recalled in Australia. This is what's happening to the waste

Australians may have only just started buying electric cars and household batteries – but several product recalls are showing that a national plan for dealing with renewable energy waste may already be needed.

www.abc.net.au

I don't have a battery, but intend to get one once they become reasonably priced for the size needed.

 

[StonesThrow]

I would hold off on batteries to see what happens with EV 'vehicle to grid' capabilities. Could use your car as a battery in short spurts to power late arvo things like AC, cooking etc.

 

[FR0GGY]

UK going with no diesel cars from 2030?
Not sure how we are going to be charging all these electric vehicles.
As far as I’m aware diesel is a by product of petrol so if there’s a lot less diesel vehicles does that mean diesel will get a lot cheaper, like it used to be?

 

[1970crow]

UK going with no diesel cars from 2030?
Not sure how we are going to be charging all these electric vehicles.
As far as I’m aware diesel is a by product of petrol so if there’s a lot less diesel vehicles does that mean diesel will get a lot cheaper, like it used to be?

No more manufacturing or banned altogether?

 

[1970crow]

Are we still selling them thermal coal? I thought they boycotted us.

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We sell to someone else who then sells to them. Apparently that's what's happening with crayfish.

 

[FR0GGY]

No more manufacturing or banned altogether?

They could surely only ban manufacturing.

 

[1970crow]

They could surely only ban manufacturing.

Can tax the vehicles out of existence by increasing levies on diesel only. Plus rego levies, which is state based here, not sure how England and other UK countries work though.

 

[FR0GGY]

Can tax the vehicles out of existence by increasing levies on diesel only. Plus rego levies, which is state based here, not sure how England and other UK countries work though.

Going to be a lot of wasted diesel around.

 

[1970crow]

Going to be a lot of wasted diesel around.

It's weird. Diesels are hugely economical and meet whatever current requirements are with the DPFs. In terms of wasted diesel, it won't happen in a global economy. It'll just become cheaper with less demand and be consumed in countries that mightn't have been able to afford much of it in the past. It'll get burned either way, it won't go to waste.

 

[Mutineer]

It's weird. Diesels are hugely economical and meet whatever current requirements are with the DPFs. In terms of wasted diesel, it won't happen in a global economy. It'll just become cheaper with less demand and be consumed in countries that mightn't have been able to afford much of it in the past. It'll get burned either way, it won't go to waste.

So with Australia and the distance thingy how does interstate heavy transport and also earth moving/mining/farming equipment get on?

Pie in the sky stuff for Australia.