The Greatest Footballer Ever??

[WCE2000]

1. Who is the greatest Player you have ever seen?
2. Who is the most coruagoues player you have ever seen?
3. Who is the best coach you have ever seen?
4. Which is the greatest team you have ever seen?

Here are my answers:
1. Bob Skilton
2. Dermott Brereton/Paul Kelly (Tie)
3. Kevin Sheedy
4. Hawthorn mid 80's

------------------
for all your footballing needs visit my AFL web-site at www.bigfooty.com/users/afl/eastsydney

 

[Dan26]

1.) Albert Thurgood/ Leigh Matthews. Thurgood was around at the turn of the century, but what I've heard makes him the grestest player to ever play. Do a search for him on the internet and see what you find. He played for Essendon, and was from Western Australia.

2.) Paul Kelly

3.) Denis Pagan

4.) Essendon in 2000. Regardless of whether they win the Grand Final. Hawthorn of 1989, was awesome. A close second.

 

[WCE2000]

yeah, i know a lot about Albert Thurgood. I have read reports about him kicking a 100 m place kick for a goal.
Just from that you would have to rate as the greatest ever except for the fact he played at 1900 when the game was no where near the standard we have today.

------------------
for all your footballing needs visit my AFL web-site at www.bigfooty.com/users/afl/eastsydney

 

[Dan26]

WCE2000,

A player who ws born in 1890, is NOT born into the world more skllful than a player born in, say, 1975.

The only differecne is the standard of professionalism, and the rules.

If Thurgood played in 1999, or 2000, he would be a champion. He would adpat (presumably) to the professionalism, and disciplines required to be a league footballer.

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

1. Greatest Player : Barrie Robran,
North Adelaide Football club

2. Most courageous : there are too many to mention.

3.Best Coach : Foster Williams or Jack Oatey

4. Greatest Team : Port Adelaide's 1914 side.

Went thru' the season undefeated, won highest goal kicker award, won magarey medal, won Grand Final, beat WA Premiers East Fremantle,
Accepted Carltons challenge for 'Champions of Australia' beat them, beat combined S.A. state side.

 

[Dan26]

PA1870,

Whilst you are entitled to your opinion,it has a distinctly South Australian view to it.

Given that they have a popultion three times less that of Victoria, this raises an eyebrow and confirms your bias.

You may have noticed I put a West Australian as the best player, and a New South Welshman as most courageous. No bias here.

As for the best team, it HAS to come from the VFL/AFL. So what if Port beat Carlton in 1914. That means nothing. Nothing. It would have meant a hell of a lot more for Port than Carlton (you know, the big brother theory, i said before)

In 1990, New South Wales beat the full strngth Victorina team (dont ask me how). It doesnt automatically make NSW a better team. Upsets happen.

Did you see the stat I sent you last week, which showd the resuts between the VFL and the SANFL since the two competitons started playing each other in the late 1800's, up until 1977 (when state of orgin was introduced)

The result was something like 58 to 22, (or something like that) in favour of the VFL. That included matches way back in the early 1900's, confirming the dominance on the VFL over 100 years. Sure there were upsets here and there, but hey.....upsets happen

As for Mr Robran. Obviously a great player. No doubt. But unless he competed against OTHER players at the highest level, there will be a question mark. It's lke Michael Jordan playing in the NBL (as opposed to the NBA)

I think the criteria, would be that you have to have proved yourself in the league with the highest standard. He may well have been one of the greatest (if not the greatest) players had he come over to Vioctoria, but how do we know ? He certainly wouldn't have dominated to the same extent.

No doubt you'll use lots of anecdotes in your response (eg, "but Barassi said this about the SA team", or "someone else said something good about the strength of SA Football"), but anecdotes are not the response I am looking for

 

[WCE2000]

Question Number 5:
5. Who is the greatest footballing brain of all-time:

My Answer: No doubt Ron Barrassi

------------------
for all your footballing needs visit my AFL web-site at www.bigfooty.com/users/afl/eastsydney

 

[Dan26]

Nothing wrong with your choice of coaches. Fair enough. You can have your opinion.

Jock McHale would be pretty unlucky, coaching Collingwood for 37 years. He gave that club the legacy that makes them the most famous club in Australia. If they aren't the most famous, then Collingwood share that title with Carlton and Essendon.

Port aren't really famous outside their own fishbowl.

 

[The Dutchman!]

1. Hear Coleman was pretty good. Polly Farmer too. And Royce Hart. And Skilts. NOT QUALIFIED TO COMMENT.
2. Neale Daniher/ Leon Baker/ Leigh Matthews/ Paul Kelly/ Wayne Carey tie...
3. Jock, Barrassi & Kennedy
4. Essendon 1985, Hawthorn 1989, WCE 1994, Carlton 1995 & (potentially) Essendon 2000.
(note: WCE, you can't be serious nominating the mid 80's Hawks - pumped in back-back GF's!! late 80's = another thing.)
5. Neale Daniher, Greg Williams (grrr), James Hird (dead set serious folks), Lethal Leigh.

 

[Grendel]

Cmon Dutchman, calling the mid-eigties Hawks is really just a misnomer for what?
The 'late eighties Hawks'? Same thing really, everyone realises who its in regards to. BTW by that logic, the back to back 84/5 sides cant have been greats, the only side to ever (in 83) to have been over a hundred points down in a GF.

All this 'whos the greatest' 'whats the best' WCE2000 you bring those up quite a bit. I notice that you have afl historian listed as your occupation. Do you intend to write a book on this type of thing? Just wondering.

Anyway for what its worth,

Matthews best ever.

Flower for courage, he shouldnt have played A game with the build he had. That he played so many is testament to his bravery.


Coach is tricky, ive never really seen a coach 'coaching'. They do it in the box. All of them even greats like Jeans/Sheedy/Parkin have all made huge gaffs that have cost GF's. At a push, Kennedy, just for the respect he seems to have at every level of the game.

88 Hawks for best team. 89 runners up 85 Dons 3rd.


Thats all from what ive actually seen, not from who or what ive heard about.

 

[fef]

I will show my age ,but I watched whitten every week for about the last three years of his career and he had the most incredible presents, although he was obviously nearing the end.
I thought though that Blight was the most graceful player I had seen, and then along came Ablett who raised the bar to a new level, and an honourable mention to Carey.
As far as coaching is concerned , surely Parkin would have to go close, he got a very ordinary Fitzroy team within a kick of the grand final and a very basic Carlton team into the granny last year he has done it against the odds.

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Dear Dan 24,
I find it amusing, that you seek out my comments and denegrate them at every opportunity. WCE 2000 asked for our opinions,
I put mine in.
Dan, having never seen the players and coaches nor really know much about these clubs and teams your comments hold little weight, except anectdotally.

The Port Adelaide football club
would at times spend up to 4 weeks in Melbourne in the 18th and early 19 th century.
Whilst not playing in the VFL they may have met some clubs up to 4 - 5 times in challenge matches.

Those early "Champions of Australia" titles WERE set up by the VFA then VFL and the challenge for them was issued by VICTORIAN PREMIERS to interstate Premiers, they meant as much to SA and WAFL clubs as they did to VICTORIAN CLUBS who ISSUED the Challenge.

If you challenge me to a game or fight, from what position do you do it ?
Are you doing it once off ?
These challenges by Victorian Premiers began in the 1800's and continued thru to the 20th Century.

Dan I dont spend my time denegrating University or othe early VFL clubs or their achievements or lack of them.

I can only go on what my club has done and my points of referance to their competing against VFL clubs when they did.

They have a record of nearly 100 games against Victorian clubs

So wether it means anything to you or other people or not, it shows Port have competed agains the BEST, being VFA/VFL teams since the 1870's.

I understand your viewpoint, but I can only go on what Port have done. Whether the clubs that played against them cared, tried, or gave a stuff or not,

PA 1870

 

[Grendel]

PA1800's so did you SEE those teams,players or are you going by what youve heard read. As WCE2000 asked who was the best you have actually SEEN. If not then you are just speculating..........

Dan same goes for you, Thurgood, cmon even your not that old

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Grendel,
quite seriously, all I can go by is the record of games played, as Port are now in the AFL it is a useful resource to be able to go back to the games Port played against VFA / VFL clubs prior to their involvement with the AFL.

Because they have played these clubs there is
some referance points. I am sorry that they are flippantly disregarded by some.

I could just as easily flippantly disregard
all the games played against other interstate clubs since our first encounter, against Geelong in 1879, which we lost,

but they are on the historical record.
and they can give us a useful insight into the relevant football strength of the PAFC against the colony of Victorias best in the 1800's and 20 th century.

I am not suggesting that because the VFL clubs did not play a full premiership round against Port that they werent capable, all I am saying is that on greater than 50% of Ports encounters against all challengers they have had an exceptional record.

The bottom line is this.............

at least I can talk about Ports relevant games against Victorian sides from 1879 until AFL entry.. because we have that shared History.

And Iam proud that Port Adelaide had the opportunity to pit themselves against the Best football competition, the VFL..

what I am even more proud of...Is the fact these clubs respected Port Adelaide enough to begin challenging them to games as early as 1879...and continuing to engage in encounters up until the mid 1990's prior to Ports AFL entry.

Thanks PA1870

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Seen with my very own eyes (not just heard about, or read about)

1) Can't decide between Malcolm Blight or Wayne Carey

2) Paul Kelly

3) Denis Pagan

4) Carlton of 1995 and Essendon of 2000

 

[Rooboy 96]

1. Wayne Carey, consistently does things on a football oval no one else can.

2. Dean Laidley, anyone that small to stand in Big Tony's path in a Grand Final, TRUE COURAGE.

3. Denis Pagan, with limited money, facilities and player list, has 2 Flags.

4. very biassed especially after what I saw on the W/E but the 1975 Premiership Team is my best, so long in the waiting, and so enjoyable. Boy did we party.

 

[Bernie]

1. Polly Farmer

2. Garry Wilson

3. The Smith brothers

4. Essendon (1985).

Interesting point - Eade was commenting on ABC on Sat. afternoon. After the match, they got Sheedy on - his first comment ' What did Eade say ? '. Eade at a big club - Carlton / Richmond / Essendon - would be awesome.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Eades' already at a big club

 

[Grendel]

PA1870 i have no problem aknowledging the history of your club. However I still dont know the players/coach etc the YOU have actually seen as you have still nominated historical teams players. Thats all

 

[Dan26]

Paul Kelly, is definately the most courageous player I have SEEN.

As for the best player I have SEEN, I would have to say Ablett when he was at his best. He was the complete package. Strength, skill, pace, nous, a prodigious kick. He had it all.

Best team I have seen. Hawthorn of 1988-89 goes close. As does Essendon of 1985. But the West Coast team of early 1991, was the only time I have ever felt a team was actually unbeatable.

I never felt Essendon was unbeatable this year. Sure I thought we were going to go unbeaten, but I still thought we COULD be beaten, if everything went right for the oppostion.

In early 1991, I seriously didn't think there was any possible way to beat the Eagles. From memory they were 12-0 at one point with a percentage of over 200. They were certainly a few goals better than the Eagles team of 1992 who won 15 H&A games. Ironically the Eagles team of 1992 won the Grand Final.

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Greatest Player ever seen.. Barrie Robran

Most courageous...Neil Kerley

Best Coach.. Foster williams

Best team: Essendon 2000

PA1870

 

[jod23]

Only been following footy since around 1989 so i aint no history buff.

1. Greatest - Harvey back to back brownlows says it all.

2. Courageous - Kelly, courage written all over his forehead.

3. Coach - Parkin!

4. Team - 94 WCE so much class!!

 

[Woof]

Who is this dickhead PA1870,try looking outside your insular little small-minded world.
Basically no-one gives a toss what some insignificant crappy little suburb of Adelaide did prior to joining the big boys, so just deal with it.

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Dear Woof,
WCE 2000, asked us to contribute our thoughts on the best we have ever seen. I have been fortunate enough to see The VFL as a melbourne based local league, the WAFL as a perth based local league, The SANFL as a Adelaide based local league.
I also seen the afore mentioned people
play in inter state team challenge matches, state teams and Grandfinals .


I also enjoy the whole concept of our new AFL national league.

There seems to be place for contributors to put forward their 'best ever' players, coaches, teams etc. from the PRE AFL melbourne Local VFL in your opinion.

Well please allow me the grace of putting forward my opinion.

Whether you like it or not.

Abusing me only serves to show you up for what you really are.

If you wish to observe my reply, the greatest team I have seen is a melbourne based team .

PA 1870

PS whether you like it or not there was exceptional standard football in Australia outside of Melbourne, it may have not beenconsistantly at the Level played in Melbourne, but it was exceptional non the less.

So just accept that that is now over and we have a national league based on that premise.


GET OVER IT.

 

[GoEagles]

Ron Barassi, Polly Farmer are the 2 best players who have played football come to mind. But there are so many 'champiuns' playing the game it's impossible to mention them all