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SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
The Greens being opposed to any and all privatisation is just as dumb and idiotic as the LNP being anti anything being run by the state. This was summed up when the Greens in Victoria opposed $9 billion of investment in new and upgraded Public Transport simply because the money came from the leasing of the Port of Melbourne. So much for being pro-PT, left wing and "social democrats" :rolleyesv1: .

ps. Oh by the way as someone who comes from a working class railway family who grew up in the western suburbs, when I pointed this out to the Greens MP from Prahran on twitter he called me surprise surprise a "neo-liberal" 🤪. Yes anyone who disagrees with the Greens is apparently a "neo-liberal" :roflv1: .
None of which alters the fact that your anti-Greens rants are a tad hysterical.

There's no denying they're hoovering up disaffected Labor voters right now, and the big thing Labor has to ask itself - unlikely (given their total denial, continuing to this day and presumably forever about the utter shiteness of Rudd's CPRS) - is why are voters deserting Labor for the Greens?
 

Leeda

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Not sure who this Thorpe person is, and I read the article.

'At least I kept my legs shut', and further down the 'dog noises' and the 'boofhead'

Sounds like Australian parliament doesn't it.

Not condoning any of this behaviour, however boofhead and legs shut is hardly hyperbole news.

Sure the inference is 'you're a ****' but the term is not stated only inferred - yeah I can see how this could be used as a card. I don't know this Hughes person either. I just find it all school yard sniping.

Just find it all sensationalised, remember much worse treatment in the school yard 40 odd years ago.

Also I don't find the thread title relevant as I don't think it's reflective of the 'Greens'. Maybe an update to 'Lidia Thorpe'
Talking like the beast of burden…..and we go round again….:rolleyes:
 

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mighty tiges

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Privatization of public assets is basically theft.
Our PT is run by private companies too. It's all a rort to funnel tax payer money to private companies.
The land, infrastructure and assets are owned by VicTrack on behalf of the State Government and is leased to Public Transport Victoria which then sub-leases them to Metro Trains Melbourne. MTM's current contract ends in 2024 IIRC. It's the Andrews Government funding and building the metro tunnel and purchasing the high capacity metro trains (HCMT) to through it.

ps. You do realise the early Victorian railways were built and run by private owned companies until all were eventually purchased by the state?

 

mighty tiges

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None of which alters the fact that your anti-Greens rants are a tad hysterical.

There's no denying they're hoovering up disaffected Labor voters right now, and the big thing Labor has to ask itself - unlikely (given their total denial, continuing to this day and presumably forever about the utter shiteness of Rudd's CPRS) - is why are voters deserting Labor for the Greens?
It's called rebuttal. If the Greens dish it out then they've got to be able take it. They are not above critique nor criticism for what they say and do!

Voting changes are mainly driven by demographic changes which are many and varied right now.

Geographically, the old inner suburban working class areas have become gentrified and expensive with young professionals buying into the area and university students renting share houses en masse. The working and lower middle classes now live in the outer burbs where the Greens vote is low.
As far as Victoria goes, Labor is hoovering votes from old regional LNP areas via urban spread. Like WA, it's the Libs that are being decimated.

The digital age has seen virtually the end of old school working class in large factories and belong to a union. There's obviously a group whose past generations of their family would've voted Labor but now because they run their own business they automatically vote Liberal (my uncle in Adelaide was one of these - blindly told me one day: "We obviously vote Liberal now because they are the party for business.")

The major demographic change for mine is religion or rather its dramatic decline in Australia. There's an inverse correlation between level of faith vs level of formal education and wealth. Eventually, the politics will right itself as the non-religious become the overwhelming majority in the decades to come but with a virtual 50/50 split at the moment it has significantly affected both major parties which were formed based on the old economic divide; not a belief/values divide. So the wealthy progressive has become less connected to the more social/religious conservative LNP resulting in the Teals; whereas Labor has realised it has to tread a fine line between the progressive new left in the inner city and the socially/religiously conservative new immigrant and old working class left in the burbs. Labor strategy thus being was to lose a couple of seats at each edge to secure the centre and majority government which it successfully did.
The minor parties such as the Greens and ONP/UAP aren't affected by this new divide in society because they appeal to smaller homogenous bases at the opposite ends of the political and social/religious spectrum and can promise the world without having to deliver it as a government.

Labor's other problem is Queensland. Take Queensland out of the equation and it was a landslide victory elsewhere across mainland Australia (70-35-11). Outside Brisbane, it's still mostly old school Australia up there: Anglo, monarchist, socially conservative and reactionary to change if it comes from the "Mexicans" south of the border. Labor's federal vote up there has never recovered from the 1996 election defeat due to being pro-multiculturalism and pro-republic except briefly for Rudd in 2007 (thanks to the parochialism for the local boy).

The Murdoch media's unrelenting almost daily attacks and frontpages have been an issue too but hopefully, as we've seen in Victoria, the tide is turning and their becoming less politically influential as the public catch on to their BS.

ps. Having said all that, the positive is the post-election honeymoon has seen a significant jump in the ALP primary vote according to Newspoll.
 

Baltimore Jack

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The Greens being opposed to any and all privatisation is just as dumb and idiotic as the LNP being anti anything being run by the state. This was summed up when the Greens in Victoria opposed $9 billion of investment in new and upgraded Public Transport simply because the money came from the leasing of the Port of Melbourne. So much for being pro-PT, left wing and "social democrats" :rolleyesv1: .

ps. Oh by the way as someone who comes from a working class railway family who grew up in the western suburbs, when I pointed this out to the Greens MP from Prahran on twitter he called me surprise surprise a "neo-liberal" 🤪. Yes anyone who disagrees with the Greens is apparently a "neo-liberal" :roflv1: .
You are so generous

You give things you already own to Billionaires so that they can make money out of your use of an asset you once owned
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
It's called rebuttal. If the Greens dish it out then they've got to be able take it. They are not above critique nor criticism for what they say and do!

Voting changes are mainly driven by demographic changes which are many and varied right now.

Geographically, the old inner suburban working class areas have become gentrified and expensive with young professionals buying into the area and university students renting share houses en masse. The working and lower middle classes now live in the outer burbs where the Greens vote is low.
As far as Victoria goes, Labor is hoovering votes from old regional LNP areas via urban spread. Like WA, it's the Libs that are being decimated.

The digital age has seen virtually the end of old school working class in large factories and belong to a union. There's obviously a group whose past generations of their family would've voted Labor but now because they run their own business they automatically vote Liberal (my uncle in Adelaide was one of these - blindly told me one day: "We obviously vote Liberal now because they are the party for business.")

The major demographic change for mine is religion or rather its dramatic decline in Australia. There's an inverse correlation between level of faith vs level of formal education and wealth. Eventually, the politics will right itself as the non-religious become the overwhelming majority in the decades to come but with a virtual 50/50 split at the moment it has significantly affected both major parties which were formed based on the old economic divide; not a belief/values divide. So the wealthy progressive has become less connected to the more social/religious conservative LNP resulting in the Teals; whereas Labor has realised it has to tread a fine line between the progressive new left in the inner city and the socially/religiously conservative new immigrant and old working class left in the burbs. Labor strategy thus being was to lose a couple of seats at each edge to secure the centre and majority government which it successfully did.
The minor parties such as the Greens and ONP/UAP aren't affected by this new divide in society because they appeal to smaller homogenous bases at the opposite ends of the political and social/religious spectrum and can promise the world without having to deliver it as a government.

Labor's other problem is Queensland. Take Queensland out of the equation and it was a landslide victory elsewhere across mainland Australia (70-35-11). Outside Brisbane, it's still mostly old school Australia up there: Anglo, monarchist, socially conservative and reactionary to change if it comes from the "Mexicans" south of the border. Labor's federal vote up there has never recovered from the 1996 election defeat due to being pro-multiculturalism and pro-republic except briefly for Rudd in 2007 (thanks to the parochialism for the local boy).

The Murdoch media's unrelenting almost daily attacks and frontpages have been an issue too but hopefully, as we've seen in Victoria, the tide is turning and their becoming less politically influential as the public catch on to their BS.

ps. Having said all that, the positive is the post-election honeymoon has seen a significant jump in the ALP primary vote according to Newspoll.

Well good on you, that was a very insightful, perceptive post.

I still wonder why you, who can see and articulate such things so clearly, still harbour such bilious resentment towards the Greens, and such nostalgia for an ALP that is never coming back.

The obstacles for Labor that you outline above seem close to existential to me, and I suspect we're simply going to see more and more Labor votes leaching to Greens and independents (post-election honeymoon notwithstanding) unless Labor can bring itself to start offering some of what they're obviously offering.
 

Gralin

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It's called rebuttal. If the Greens dish it out then they've got to be able take it. They are not above critique nor criticism for what they say and do!

Voting changes are mainly driven by demographic changes which are many and varied right now.

Geographically, the old inner suburban working class areas have become gentrified and expensive with young professionals buying into the area and university students renting share houses en masse. The working and lower middle classes now live in the outer burbs where the Greens vote is low.
As far as Victoria goes, Labor is hoovering votes from old regional LNP areas via urban spread. Like WA, it's the Libs that are being decimated.

The digital age has seen virtually the end of old school working class in large factories and belong to a union. There's obviously a group whose past generations of their family would've voted Labor but now because they run their own business they automatically vote Liberal (my uncle in Adelaide was one of these - blindly told me one day: "We obviously vote Liberal now because they are the party for business.")

The major demographic change for mine is religion or rather its dramatic decline in Australia. There's an inverse correlation between level of faith vs level of formal education and wealth. Eventually, the politics will right itself as the non-religious become the overwhelming majority in the decades to come but with a virtual 50/50 split at the moment it has significantly affected both major parties which were formed based on the old economic divide; not a belief/values divide. So the wealthy progressive has become less connected to the more social/religious conservative LNP resulting in the Teals; whereas Labor has realised it has to tread a fine line between the progressive new left in the inner city and the socially/religiously conservative new immigrant and old working class left in the burbs. Labor strategy thus being was to lose a couple of seats at each edge to secure the centre and majority government which it successfully did.
The minor parties such as the Greens and ONP/UAP aren't affected by this new divide in society because they appeal to smaller homogenous bases at the opposite ends of the political and social/religious spectrum and can promise the world without having to deliver it as a government.

Labor's other problem is Queensland. Take Queensland out of the equation and it was a landslide victory elsewhere across mainland Australia (70-35-11). Outside Brisbane, it's still mostly old school Australia up there: Anglo, monarchist, socially conservative and reactionary to change if it comes from the "Mexicans" south of the border. Labor's federal vote up there has never recovered from the 1996 election defeat due to being pro-multiculturalism and pro-republic except briefly for Rudd in 2007 (thanks to the parochialism for the local boy).

The Murdoch media's unrelenting almost daily attacks and frontpages have been an issue too but hopefully, as we've seen in Victoria, the tide is turning and their becoming less politically influential as the public catch on to their BS.

ps. Having said all that, the positive is the post-election honeymoon has seen a significant jump in the ALP primary vote according to Newspoll.

Criticism of the greens is fine, suggesting privatisation is ever beneficial to the eve user is, however, bullshit.

For profit means either the price is going up or the government sold off an income stream, or both
 

Kwality

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Privatization of public assets is basically theft.
Our PT is run by private companies too. It's all a rort to funnel tax payer money to private companies.
Its about Government wanting to spend more money than they have.
I'm sure academia have more than one term to describe it ie based on which side of politics is into it this time.

THEFT it is not. More like FRAUD if you need to characterise it for political purposes.
 
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Gralin

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So last time Linda Gale got 493 votes, Emi and Declan got 413 and 9 people voted for seek further candidate.

Gale didn't run this time but pushed for everyone that wanted her to vote seek further candidate

20220808_212212.jpg


Vic Greens definitely have an issue with transphobes in the party which they've shown no appetite to deal with.
 

Sydney Kicker

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I'm a lifelong Greens voter but despair when they shoot themselves in the foot. Yay Adam with his tone deaf call for a Republic after the Queen had barely stopped breathing. And then Faruqi weighing in? FFS read the room. It speaks very poorly of their judgement and character. Why squander political capital for nothing! No harm encouraging the republican debate but there's an appropriate time and tone to do it!
 

Father Jack

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I'm a lifelong Greens voter but despair when they shoot themselves in the foot. Yay Adam with his tone deaf call for a Republic after the Queen had barely stopped breathing. And then Faruqi weighing in? FFS read the room. It speaks very poorly of their judgement and character. Why squander political capital for nothing! No harm encouraging the republican debate but there's an appropriate time and tone to do it!
Today was absolutely the day for it and the overreaction to the tweet was quite ridiculous.
 

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Sydney Kicker

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Today was absolutely the day for it and the overreaction to the tweet was quite ridiculous.

You think this is appropriate...



The Greens have to demonstrate they are a mainstream party. That's the tweet of the radical fringe considering the context (timing is everything).

Gotta call it the way you see it.

And I'm a strong supporter of financial repatriations and addressing the genocide committed by white Australians against First peoples. And as I said a lifelong Greens voter.
 

Father Jack

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You think this is appropriate...



The Greens have to demonstrate they are a mainstream party. That's the tweet of the radical fringe considering the context (timing is everything).

Gotta call it the way you see it.

And I'm a strong supporter of financial repatriations and addressing the genocide committed by white Australians against First peoples. And as I said a lifelong Greens voter.

I find that tweet highly defensible.
 

Gralin

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You think this is appropriate...



The Greens have to demonstrate they are a mainstream party. That's the tweet of the radical fringe considering the context (timing is everything).

Gotta call it the way you see it.

And I'm a strong supporter of financial repatriations and addressing the genocide committed by white Australians against First peoples. And as I said a lifelong Greens voter.

There's likely more people celebrating her death around the world than mourning given how much of the world the Brits plundered and continue to profit off.

Anyone offended by reality needs to read some real history not the sanitised propaganda the Poms put out
 

Sydney Kicker

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There's likely more people celebrating her death around the world than mourning given how much of the world the Brits plundered and continue to profit off.

Anyone offended by reality needs to read some real history not the sanitised propaganda the Poms put out
And this is precisely why the world is up sh$# creek. There's another time to discuss peoples infamy in history than the day they die.

The Queen's powers are largely ceremonial - of course she has influence over the colonial agenda and benefits indirectly from stolen generational wealth (alongside several hundred million other mainly white people on the planet including me), but holding her culpable for British colonial wrongs (as terrible as they were especially by todays standards) is a big stretch especially when most of it happened before the Queen was even born.

My grandfathers were white anglo saxon, and benefitted financially from their ancestry and additionally both were racists by todays standards. Do I acknowledge this now? Yes. Did I announce their racism in the newspapers the day they died? No.

If you want to rate people on the basis of how evil they are, who is worse? The Queen or the current PMs/Presidents of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Brazil? You could possibly argue the Queen stoked sectarian violence simply by being the Queen but she hasn't actively advocated and ordered violence and economic theft like those others mentioned.
 

Gralin

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And this is precisely why the world is up sh$# creek. There's another time to discuss peoples infamy in history than the day they die.

The Queen's powers are largely ceremonial - of course she has influence over the colonial agenda and benefits indirectly from stolen generational wealth (alongside several hundred million other mainly white people on the planet including me), but holding her culpable for British colonial wrongs (as terrible as they were especially by todays standards) is a big stretch especially when most of it happened before the Queen was even born.

My grandfathers were white anglo saxon, and benefitted financially from their ancestry and additionally both were racists by todays standards. Do I acknowledge this now? Yes. Did I announce their racism in the newspapers the day they died? No.

If you want to rate people on the basis of how evil they are, who is worse? The Queen or the current PMs/Presidents of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Brazil? You could possibly argue the Queen stoked sectarian violence simply by being the Queen but she hasn't actively advocated and ordered violence and economic theft like those others mentioned.
Oh look at you doing the racism, you'd make your grand fathers proud
 

Father Jack

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Adam Bandt lacks tact.

His tweet was reasonable and defensible, but lacking in tact. That's something to work on if the Greens want to play politics well and appeal to more than their core voting constituent.
Tact only plays into the hands of those that want nothing to change.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
Because you are the radical fringe they are talking about.
If plain truth-telling is “radical”, then guilty as charged, Your Honour.

People saying the timing was highly inappropriate. Seemingly expecting us to ignore the fact of wall-to-wall examination of her legacy from every media outlet in the Anglosphere, and presumably plenty others as well.

If we’re going to discuss her legacy, and we clearly are, then let’s discuss it.

My guess is most sensible Australians are well over the performative mourning already.
 

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