The Greens

[Gralin]

But it doesn't mean they have to take up every progressive issue with gusto. You can be against horse racing (won't lose votes) without calling for an outright ban (will lose votes).

We've got the Legalise Cannabis Party and Animal Justice Party.

Perhaps there's the need for a party between the ALP and the Greens. Economically progressive, but socially centrist. An inverse of the Teals. Probably not. But there's a bigger gap between the ALP and the Greens than there has ever been, I think. The ALP have gone so far right (centre).

Apart from more medicare spending and reducing student loans, it wasn't a very progressive campaign. And the last 3 years of Govt wasn't progressive at all.

Acknowledging this is from my vantage point further on the left.....

Single issue parties are problematic for many reasons

you have no idea what the candidate things politically beyond that one issue

there's a lot of right wing chuds in legalise cannabis

AJP I have more time for but still they're really only there for one thing at the end of the day


I don't have an issue with the greens calling for a ban on horse racing, gambling as a whole is cooked

I think most people that say the greens lost them on xx policy were never going to vote for them to begin with

I actually paid zero attention to any of the campaigning by anyone, I voted early and ignored it all

I don't give a shit about campaigning, it doesn't lead to anything post election, learned that last time when the greens rolled over on labors dogshit climate policy at the start of the term

 

[Carn The Berries]

That's not going to be convincing voters to elect the LNP at the next election though.

"Hey we voted with the ALP for everything the past 3 years, but choose us instead because we have Angus/Sussan!"

There is a whole lot of stuff that needs to happen with the LNP to make them electable (number one being not having either Taylor or Ley as leader). But being more supportive of reasonable legislation would be a good first step.

 

[Saint]

Single issue parties are problematic for many reasons

you have no idea what the candidate things politically beyond that one issue

there's a lot of right wing chuds in legalise cannabis

AJP I have more time for but still they're really only there for one thing at the end of the day


I don't have an issue with the greens calling for a ban on horse racing, gambling as a whole is cooked

I think most people that say the greens lost them on xx policy were never going to vote for them to begin with

I actually paid zero attention to any of the campaigning by anyone, I voted early and ignored it all

I don't give a shit about campaigning, it doesn't lead to anything post election, learned that last time when the greens rolled over on labors dogshit climate policy at the start of the term

Seems like every election, the majors try to stick the boots into the Greens to say it's a "repudiation", when the Greens didn't lose votes, but the majors did.

My main issue with animals is that the people I know who love animals the most are dog (pets) and horse people. Horse people love their horses just like dog owners, but the Greens are telling them they're cruel.

And I think the proportion of dog owners who don't look after their dogs properly is far worse than the number of racehorse owners/staff who don't.

Anyone who says horse racing is cruel have never considered or seen how racehorses are cared for.

 

[Gralin]

Seems like every election, the majors try to stick the boots into the Greens to say it's a "repudiation", when the Greens didn't lose votes, but the majors did.

My main issue with animals is that the people I know who love animals the most are dog (pets) and horse people. Horse people love their horses just like dog owners, but the Greens are telling them they're cruel.

And I think the proportion of dog owners who don't look after their dogs properly is far worse than the number of racehorse owners/staff who don't.

Anyone who says horse racing is cruel have never considered or seen how racehorses are cared for.

I know horse people, I live with horse people

I know people that work in the industry and love horses

the industry itself is not kind to them though, no matter how much people working in the industry are

Black Caviar is a rather public example of how they are "cared for" by their owners

 

[Gralin]

Interesting how Albo is all smiles and respect for ScoMo and Dutton but politeness politics goes out the window with MCM losing his seat

 

[Caesar]

Politicians are like that, nobody takes the game personally until someone breaks the unspoken codes of political life. One of those is you don’t discuss internal parliamentary dynamics in public.

Yeah that code is maybe a bit toxic but it’s one that the Greens happily participate in and benefit from, so Albanese is not wrong to describe Chandler-Mather as a hypocrite and a coward to start lobbing grenades the minute he’s out

 

[Gralin]

Politicians are like that, nobody takes the game personally until someone breaks the unspoken codes of political life. One of those is you don’t discuss internal parliamentary dynamics in public.

Yeah that code is maybe a bit toxic but it’s one that the Greens happily participate in and benefit from, so Albanese is not wrong to describe Chandler-Mather as a hypocrite and a coward to start lobbing grenades the minute he’s out

Years of defamation cases would say plenty of them have taken plenty of it personally

 

[Caesar]

Years of defamation cases would say plenty of them have taken plenty of it personally

I’m not saying that none of them ever cross the line, just that they all know where it is

Those who do cross it make themselves fair game for a slapdown, as Chandler-Mather has done here

 

[Gralin]

I’m not saying that none of them ever cross the line, just that they all know where it is

Those who do cross it make themselves fair game for a slapdown, as Chandler-Mather has done here

You said nobody takes it personally and that MCM is getting what he deserves for taking it personally

oh and that he's a coward

does that about sum it up?

 

[CM86]

Interesting how Albo is all smiles and respect for ScoMo and Dutton but politeness politics goes out the window with MCM losing his seat

Reflexively or reactively, I can understand people jumping in here to defend Albo and attack Chandler-Mather.


But there is a strong point being made there, in general. And maybe a stronger point underlying it.
Labor needs to be seen to be, but also IS, more actively hostile towards The Greens, than any other party.
Because no matter what they do, they are 'tarred' as being connected to The Greens. (like that's a bad thing).

And while it all comes back to the control of Australian media. It doesn't excuse Albo or Labor for being complicit.


Yes, you can have issues with Chandler-Mather, you can have issues with The Greens. You can laugh at clips. You can condemn clips etc.

But there is nothing that The Greens or Chandler-Mather etc have ever done, that is actually comparable to other members of Parliament, who Albo would never be so openly antagonistic towards.
Hanson, Roberts, Babet, Joyce, Reynolds, not even Dutton.


Yes, you can point out that it's glass houses etc etc. You can disagree with The Greens, and Chandler-Mather.
Yes, you can point out that you believe it's deserved.
But, the point is that it's only OK when directed to The Greens.
It's not if it's directed anywhere else, by Albo and Labor.

 

[Caesar]

I’m saying nobody takes it personally if you paint within the lines, and Chandler-Mather didn’t do that

As a consequence I’m not surprised Albanese has eviscerated him

 

[Gralin]

I’m saying nobody takes it personally if you paint within the lines, and Chandler-Mather didn’t do that

As a consequence I’m not surprised Albanese has eviscerated him

 

[Caesar]

View attachment 2308402

You’re proving my point - this is an example of it being handled internally using parliamentary procedures - as all parties expect it to be

Going on a podcast and bleating about it is not how parties expect MPs to handle this stuff which is why he’s opened himself up to public criticism

 

[Gralin]

You’re proving my point - this is an example of it being handled internally using parliamentary procedures - as all parties expect it to be

Going on a podcast and bleating about it is not how parties expect MPs to handle this stuff which is why he’s opened himself up to public criticism

Your point being that speaking up deserves ridicule?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Your point being that speaking up deserves ridicule?

Going public about it well after it has happened, and after he has been removed as a MP makes it seem like sour grapes to a lot of people.

Then there's the follow up after the PM responded.

 

[Taylor]

Interesting how Albo is all smiles and respect for ScoMo and Dutton but politeness politics goes out the window with MCM losing his seat

He was showing the ALP policy of giving $10 billion to investors and then using the returns to build housing as the dud that would be. Made them look bad.

 

[Gralin]

He was showing the ALP policy of giving $10 billion to investors and then using the returns to build housing as the dud that would be. Made them look bad.

yes

he also stood up for renters and not landlords

which puts him at opposition with the vast majority of politicians

 

[Daka]

Yeah that code is maybe a bit toxic but it’s one that the Greens happily participate in and benefit from, so Albanese is not wrong to describe Chandler-Mather as a hypocrite and a coward to start lobbing grenades the minute he’s out

To me it only shows the Australian people that a lot of Greens Party Member/MP's are not cut out for Politics.
If you can't handle the heat get out.

 

[Gralin]

To me it only shows the Australian people that a lot of Greens Party Member/MP's are not cut out for Politics.
If you can't handle the heat get out.

alternatively maybe the majors should have to behave like adults

Barnaby drunk

the prime minister who publicly talks about being polite using tourettes as an insult towards MCM in parliament comes to mind


these people who want us to think are leaders are acting like teenagers

 

[CM86]

To me it only shows the Australian people that a lot of Greens Party Member/MP's are not cut out for Politics.
If you can't handle the heat get out.

If you can't handle the heat, use your power/wealth/influence and the legal system to hurt the people who caused the heat.


https://www.theguardian.com/austral...lmost-ruined-me-and-it-could-happen-to-anyone

This was a cabinet minister, a very wealthy and powerful man who has parliamentary privilege and who wants to be prime minister, suing me – an unemployed refugee advocate – over a single six-word deleted tweet which linked to a news report.​

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

If the LNP can actually get their shit together (which is highly unlikely given the make-up of the caucus) they can wedge the Greens and promote the obstructionist line. Be willing to support the ALP as much as possible and be the conduit for the government's policies to get through parliament. Obviously this won't be possible everywhere, but they need to move away from the right, and supporting the ALP wherever possible (particularly where the Greens are holding things up) would be viewed very positively by the electorate IMHO.

Given the cheerful alacrity with which the Coalition and Labor dropped their mutual rancour and negotiated legislation on political donations that enshrined their incumbency’s dominance to the significant disadvantage of independents and newcomers, I think that’s a distinct possibility.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Reflexively or reactively, I can understand people jumping in here to defend Albo and attack Chandler-Mather.


But there is a strong point being made there, in general. And maybe a stronger point underlying it.
Labor needs to be seen to be, but also IS, more actively hostile towards The Greens, than any other party.
Because no matter what they do, they are 'tarred' as being connected to The Greens. (like that's a bad thing).

And while it all comes back to the control of Australian media. It doesn't excuse Albo or Labor for being complicit.


Yes, you can have issues with Chandler-Mather, you can have issues with The Greens. You can laugh at clips. You can condemn clips etc.

But there is nothing that The Greens or Chandler-Mather etc have ever done, that is actually comparable to other members of Parliament, who Albo would never be so openly antagonistic towards.
Hanson, Roberts, Babet, Joyce, Reynolds, not even Dutton.


Yes, you can point out that it's glass houses etc etc. You can disagree with The Greens, and Chandler-Mather.
Yes, you can point out that you believe it's deserved.
But, the point is that it's only OK when directed to The Greens.
It's not if it's directed anywhere else, by Albo and Labor.

Labor aren’t just worried about being perceived as too close to the Greens, they’re more worried about losing votes to them. Hence the at-times irrational hatred.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/last-remaining-greens-mp-is-the-one-that-looks-most-like-a-teal/

 

[spinynorman]

Albanese has always reserved his strongest enmity for those who dare to be to his left - one only needs at how he's acted internally to members of the Left faction who've not followed his lead in making peace with the Right.

On the topic at hand, I think it’s probably sticking one’s head in the sand to say the election wasn’t that bad for the Greens - losing 75% of your lower house seats (with the one survivor being by far your lowest profile of the four) is a disaster no matter which way you look at it, and while the 0.5% swing away from them isn’t enormous, it still represents their first negative swing after three elections of growth.

That said, it isn’t necessarily a “burn it all down and start again” result, which it’s being treated as. Bandt and Chandler-Mather going means they lose two of their more prominent economic justice voices, and so it’s very possible this does represent a major change in direction (God knows they're not the most transparent caucus in the world). From my scan, a lot of the seats with the biggest swings against them are Teal ones, which were the type they were angling for under the more centrist Di Natale before the move to Bandt. More working class metropolitan seats saw them gain solid swings and shares of the vote (11% in Werriwa in Sydney, 15% in Lalor in Melbourne), which shows they have been breaking away dissatisfied Labor voters beyond just the inner city types.

However, it's probably not enough to put faith in, and, realistically, for the major left wing party soaking up the vote to the left of an increasingly neoliberal ALP, it's not enough 40 years into their existence (for comparison, the early Labor Party had had four Prime Ministers in its first 40 years). I'm not really sure where they go from here, which suggests it might be for the better for a change on the left-wing flank.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I agree their main problem is that they're progressive on everything and don't really seem open to being very progressive on some things but not others. They seem too uncompromising.

For example, I'm a Greens voter/supporter and I love horse and dog racing, know lots of people in the industry who love animals and they and the animals would suffer if it was banned like the Greens want.

Maybe it's the trade-off between wanting them to be perfect for me, but others in the party want it to be perfect for them...

One good thing about the Greens is, the members write the policies. A member could advocate for a particular policy in their state branch, which then could be adopted nationally. Their election policies and talking points are supposed to reflect party policies.

Saint on the progressive on everything I think it's largely because they've been the only party on the left

They're trying to appeal to lots of different groups of progressive voters and we've certainly got enough pollies pushing the opposite positions already

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Greens in Victoria, if Victorian Socialists ever get a seat in the MLC.