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Kwality

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As De Nero said in Taxi Driver "You talking to me"

Within the Greens there is a cadre of far left members.
We used to be called "The Industrial Left" (although we also had a piss taking name of "The Tomato Left") when we were all in the ALP

Oh for the days of the FEDFA .....
 

Gralin

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Apr 8, 2010
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Understanding how tax works does not mean I support the reality of taxation. IF we want to spend it, we need to get it from somewhere OR simply borrow it as we have since Howard/Costello were shown the door.*

Try understanding what you are talking about before leaping on that soap box & telling us how virtuous you are, protected by that cloak of ignorance.

* I bought the Rudd/Swann dream too.
do you support the stage 3 tax cuts?
 

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Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2006
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Luckily eh. Lucky for the taxpayer?
Lucky the LNG was discovred, aka found, lucky the business case stacked up, lucky there was a potential customer prepared to sign up for a multi million take or pay contract for stuff still in ground .... etc.
But you know all that, its the easily lead you are selling that line tooo ..... Vic has locked up its gas reserves, $0 royalties. Thats a choice.
Because the environmental damage would far outweigh what would be received in royalties and taxes at the current levels.

How hard is it to find coal-seam gas in coal-seams which have been known for over a hundred years and found and initially exploited by the Govt?

They didn't find anything, they bought the rights to discovered resources. The Business Cases would still have stacked up, even if the royalties were increased by 50%.

Have you ever worked on these business cases? I have, and these ones are the ones where you're just going through the motions because everyone knows it already stacks up. The bulk of effort is working out how much of it can be claimed as "research" or as a co-contribution and tax deduction.
 

Saint

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Understanding how tax works does not mean I support the reality of taxation. IF we want to spend it, we need to get it from somewhere OR simply borrow it as we have since Howard/Costello were shown the door.*

Try understanding what you are talking about before leaping on that soap box & telling us how virtuous you are, protected by that cloak of ignorance.

* I bought the Rudd/Swann dream too.
Haha, Howard and Costello set the scene for future borrowing. They cut recurrent taxes and replaced them with short-term revenues (like the sale of Telstra and other assets). They structurally decimated the budget.
 

Kwality

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It depends by what you mean by 'worked'. It's a bit like medicare, there will always be claims that medicare is costly and we need to make cuts to keep it going. But the reality is that health care has a cost, and you either fund it collectively through government, or you push those costs back to your citizens -- some of who can't afford it.

Education is exactly the same. If we want a skilled, educated population - it is going to cost us money. Do we fund it through taxation? Or do we push the costs down to the students? If we do, then we have to accept that there will be people that miss out... and they will typically kids from low-income families. You can put a system like HECS/HELP to try and mitigate the situation... but that doesn't fix the problem. We have created a society where post-secondary education is more or less mandatory if you want to build financial stability, but we charge an arm-and-a-leg to acquire it.

The claim that we can't afford to make tertiary education free is completely wrong. Of course we can. It's just a matter of choices. I mean, apparently the Coalition have committed ~$25b in pork barrelling in this election alone. WTF does all that money come from? They spent half a billion dollars on their car park rorts. They overpayed Jobkeeper by $20b. The Stage 3 tax cuts are worth $18b. Heck, the total tax cuts are worth more than $35b.

European countries manage to fund tertiary education... so it's definitely not impossible. And it doesn't cause economic calamities.

It's a choice.

I quoted your words & asked if you can support that claim. You have chosen not too, fine.
Giving a kid a degree simply takes them closer to the day an employer needs to decide if they are who they claim to be, & whether they can earn the money they think the degree entitles them to be. Most clear that obstacle, some stumble.

Bit like a truck driver, the licence is the easy bit.
 
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Kwality

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Because the environmental damage would far outweigh what would be received in royalties and taxes at the current levels.

How hard is it to find coal-seam gas in coal-seams which have been known for over a hundred years and found and initially exploited by the Govt?

They didn't find anything, they bought the rights to discovered resources. The Business Cases would still have stacked up, even if the royalties were increased by 50%.

Have you ever worked on these business cases? I have, and these ones are the ones where you're just going through the motions because everyone knows it already stacks up. The bulk of effort is working out how much of it can be claimed as "research" or as a co-contribution and tax deduction.

My experience of business cases has been at the investment level, well aware that the delivered results will reflect my future earning capacity.
 

Baltimore Jack

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BOOM here comes real Climate Change Legislation

1653007265024.png
 

Kwality

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Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
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How does that work with the proposed plan to tax 122 Billionaires global wealth? It isn't possible if they are not Australian residents for tax purposes.
Not a lot of those billionaires can just move overseas and pay tax in a tax haven. Some of the ownerships of these companies would then be subject to FIRB. They'd only need to set one example. Sorry, Gina, it's not in Australia's national interests to have our biggest iron ore deposits owned by a lady who domiciles in the Cayman Islands. You can either be an Australian for tax purposes and own the company or move overseas and sell the company.
 

Kwality

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Haha, Howard and Costello set the scene for future borrowing. They cut recurrent taxes and replaced them with short-term revenues (like the sale of Telstra and other assets). They structurally decimated the budget.

Howard/Costello dealt with the economy they had. That doesnt mean I supported everything they did, see my vote for Kev07/time for a change.

The GFC changed that & the EVERY Government since then havent had the guts/integrity to face up to their own party room & admit 'things have changed.'
You appear to blame Howard/Costello in preference to Rudd/Swan or any other of the conga line of politicians of both sides, unprepared to deliver the bad news that its not 2002, its 2022, & accept the consequences.

Its lazy (politically preferable?) to be blaming a Government of 20 years ago in preference to looking at those who have failed to deliver when given the opportunity.
 

Saint

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Howard/Costello dealt with the economy they had. That doesnt mean I supported everything they did, see my vote for Kev07/time for a change.

The GFC changed that & the EVERY Government since then havent had the guts/integrity to face up to their own party room & admit 'things have changed.'
You appear to blame Howard/Costello in preference to Rudd/Swan or any other of the conga line of politicians of both sides, unprepared to deliver the bad news that its not 2002, its 2022, & accept the consequences.

Its lazy (politically preferable?) to be blaming a Government of 20 years ago in preference to looking at those who have failed to deliver when given the opportunity.
Howard and Costello could have invested the money from Telstra into the NBN and not into unsustainable tax cuts.

Once they did cut taxes, I agree Rudd and Gillard should have raised taxes rather than incurring debt, but the debt was very manageable until the LNP came in and amped up the wasteful spending and cut taxes again at precisely the wrong time. Nobody anywhere thinks the Stage 3 tax cuts are a good idea (except the 10% of people who will receive them, of which I am one, and still think it's a bad idea because my kids who will be paying for it might not earn as much as I do).
 

Kwality

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Not a lot of those billionaires can just move overseas and pay tax in a tax haven. Some of the ownerships of these companies would then be subject to FIRB. They'd only need to set one example. Sorry, Gina, it's not in Australia's national interests to have our biggest iron ore deposits owned by a lady who domiciles in the Cayman Islands. You can either be an Australian for tax purposes and own the company or move overseas and sell the company.
Trust you dont claim Mrs Rinehart is a Cayman resident, or can support that claim.
 

Carn The Berries

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I'm not sure how much more clearly I can spell this out. This is directly from the Greens website.

The Greens plan includes:
  • A 6% annual tax on the global net wealth of Australia’s 122 billionaires.
That is simply not possible, in any way, shape or form, if a person is not an Australian resident for tax purposes. If any of these people move themselves to another jurisdiction for tax purposes (which would be highly likely if such a plan became reality) there would be no mechanism for applying this tax.
 

Kwality

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Howard and Costello could have invested the money from Telstra into the NBN and not into unsustainable tax cuts.
Telstra fyi

Beginning in 1997 and finalizing in 2011, the federal government began to privatise the corporation. The first three stages were initiated by the Liberal–National Coalition's Howard Government: the first, informally known as "T1" (with shares priced at $3.30), occurred in 1997. "T2" ($7.40) followed in 1999; "T3" ($3.60) in 2006.[4][8] In T1, the government sold one third of its shares in Telstra for A$14 billion and publicly listed the company on the Australian Stock Exchange.[8] In 1998, a further 16% of Telstra shares were sold to the public, leaving the Australian government with 51% ownership. In 2006, T3 was announced by the government and was the largest of the three public releases, reducing the government's ownership of Telstra to 17%.[9] The 17% remainder of Telstra was placed in Australia's Future Fund, a sovereign wealth fund established mainly to meet future liabilities for payment of superannuation to retired federal public servants.[10] In 2009, the Future Fund sold off another $2.4 billion worth of shares, reducing the government's stake in Telstra to 10.9%.[11] In August 2011, under Labor's Gillard Government, the Future Fund sold its remaining "above market weight" Telstra shares, effectively completing Telstra's privatisation.[12]

 

Kwality

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I'm not sure how much more clearly I can spell this out. This is directly from the Greens website.

The Greens plan includes:
  • A 6% annual tax on the global net wealth of Australia’s 122 billionaires.
That is simply not possible, in any way, shape or form, if a person is not an Australian resident for tax purposes. If any of these people move themselves to another jurisdiction for tax purposes (which would be highly likely if such a plan became reality) there would be no mechanism for applying this tax.

Wealth as defined by who?
 

Demonic Ascent

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Understanding how tax works does not mean I support the reality of taxation. IF we want to spend it, we need to get it from somewhere OR simply borrow it as we have since Howard/Costello were shown the door.*

Try understanding what you are talking about before leaping on that soap box & telling us how virtuous you are, protected by that cloak of ignorance.

* I bought the Rudd/Swann dream too.
Kwality calling others ignorant now I've heard it all 😂😂😂
 

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