The Greens

[Baltimore Jack]

Ding ding ding!

If the Greens want results then they need to publicly capitulate to Albo on this.
Kiss the ring in return for concrete concessions and action elsewhere.

That's if they are actually interested in results rather than vacuous grandstanding.

Why should it be the Greens that capitulate?

 

[FredLeDeux]

Why should it be the Greens that capitulate?

Providence is always on the side of the big battalions

 

[Johnny Bananas]

That's if they are actually interested in results rather than vacuous grandstanding.

How is supporting what the scientists say is necessary to limit warming to 1.5°C and saving the Great Barrier Reef "vacuous"? How is an outcome that won't even help the world limit warming to 2°C "results"?

 

[William Wonka]

And what will Labor offer to make it worth their while? What concrete concessions and action will it involve?

Why should it be the Greens that capitulate?

See Freds most eloquent answer below.
When you are the little kid you get but a lick of the icecream, and you don't choose the flavour.

Providence is always on the side of the big battalions

The Greens have never been interested in that sort of juvenile politics so why bring it up now?

How is supporting what the scientists say is necessary to limit warming to 1.5°C and saving the Great Barrier Reef "vacuous"? How is an outcome that won't even help the world limit warming to 2°C "results"?

A lot of politics is about symbolism and appearances (see Brandt's flag aversion) even having a 'target' at all since it does exactly zilch by itself.

The Greens just need to learn early on that putting their requests quietly and respectfully will equal results whereas posturing will get the opposite.

 

[Gralin]

See Freds most eloquent answer below.
When you are the little kid you get but a lick of the icecream, and you don't choose the flavour.





A lot of politics is about symbolism and appearances (see Brandt's flag aversion) even having a 'target' at all since it does exactly zilch by itself.

The Greens just need to learn early on that putting their requests quietly and respectfully will equal results whereas posturing will get the opposite.

dude Albo personally hates the greens, he'll do everything he can to give them nothing and make them out to be the reason nothing progressive happens under labor

 

[William Wonka]

dude Albo personally hates the greens, he'll do everything he can to give them nothing and make them out to be the reason nothing progressive happens under labor

Albos only issue with the Greens is them taking lower house seats from Labor.
The ideology of the ALP left and the Greens is virtually identical.

But all policy needs to be seen as Labor in complete control.
What the Greens fandangle in Senate committees is a different story

 

[Johnny Bananas]

See Freds most eloquent answer below.

Except that doesn't mean anything. Are you going to answer the question in good faith?

When you are the little kid you get but a lick of the icecream, and you don't choose the flavour.

When the ice cream costs $38, the big kid needs your money to buy it and isn't big enough to beat you up for it, you get some say in the outcome, or there will be no ice cream for anybody.

The Greens just need to learn early on that putting their requests quietly and respectfully will equal results whereas posturing will get the opposite.

I see, and when has this quiet and respectful approach resulted in serious changes to legislation? If it's such an important lesson then there should be many examples to cite.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The ideology of the ALP left and the Greens is virtually identical.

If that's the case, then Labor Left are simply useful idiots of Labor Right, and have been so since Hawke was in office, because they've been used to get Labor Right into power and then enact their neoliberal agenda.

But, I don't think it actually is the case, or most of Labor Left would have left the party long ago. I think they've consciously chosen to abandon principle for the dream of power, and so they no longer care about reinstituting the right to strike, a fair deal for welfare recipients, nationalisation of utilities or any other leftist reform. There is practically no ideological battle within the Labor Party anymore, just different cliques angling for power.

 

[Gralin]

Albos only issue with the Greens is them taking lower house seats from Labor.
The ideology of the ALP left and the Greens is virtually identical.

But all policy needs to be seen as Labor in complete control.
What the Greens fandangle in Senate committees is a different story

lol tell me you don't know s**t about politics in this country without telling me

 

[Gralin]

Labor and the Greens are not virtually identical in ideology what utter tripe

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Greens want to stop environmental scams like this scam.

NT decision to grant biggest ever water licence labelled ‘extraordinary’ giveaway

Report also finds employment benefits from Fortune Agribusiness’s Singleton station venture were ‘largely illusory’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Albos only issue with the Greens is them taking lower house seats from Labor.
The ideology of the ALP left and the Greens is virtually identical.

But all policy needs to be seen as Labor in complete control.
What the Greens fandangle in Senate committees is a different story

Wrong. Greens and Labor are miles apart.

 

[William Wonka]

When the ice cream costs $38, the big kid needs your money to buy it and isn't big enough to beat you up for it, you get some say in the outcome, or there will be no ice cream for anybody.

The option to go halves with the other kid they both hate is always there.
Of course he will insist on peanut butter flavour because he knows the little kid is allergic.

If that's the case, then Labor Left are simply useful idiots of Labor Right, and have been so since Hawke was in office, because they've been used to get Labor Right into power and then enact their neoliberal agenda.

But, I don't think it actually is the case, or most of Labor Left would have left the party long ago. I think they've consciously chosen to abandon principle for the dream of power, and so they no longer care about reinstituting the right to strike, a fair deal for welfare recipients, nationalisation of utilities or any other leftist reform. There is practically no ideological battle within the Labor Party anymore, just different cliques angling for power.

I agree the Left of the ALP has been in a state of semi stagnation in recent decades.
Partly due to losing recruits to the Greens.

But Albo is PM now and from the socialist Left (even if he has been criticised for being too much of conciliator with the right to gain power) as well as being the protege of Tom Uren.

Rather than going straight to eating our own we should give him a few years to move the country to the Left.

Anyone who expects huge things day one is a moron.
The Libs never do this do they?
They use death by a thousand cuts to make things unrecognisable after a decade in power.

Gough burned bright and we are all blessed that he did but I for one would like to see a few decades of Labor in power to completely reshape the country for the present and future.

Labor and the Greens are not virtually identical in ideology what utter tripe

Wrong. Greens and Labor are miles apart.

I said the Left faction of the ALP.

However unlike the Greens the ALP has never formed a coalition government with the Liberals now have they?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The Greens just need to learn early on that putting their requests quietly and respectfully will equal results whereas posturing will get the opposite.

I already said, the Greens have never been interested in anything except grown-up, no-bullshit policy negotiations.

And all you offer in reply is to repeat a completely unfounded implication that they have acted in bad faith.

Plus you seem to be under the impression that Labor gets to call the shots. Have you not grasped that to get anything passed through the senate, Labor has to either deal with the Greens, or with the Coalition?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

However unlike the Greens the ALP has never formed a coalition government with the Liberals now have they?

Um I just double checked, and no, the Greens have never formed a coalition government with the Libs.

What on earth have you been smoking? I don't want some.

 

[Gralin]

The option to go halves with the other kid they both hate is always there.
Of course he will insist on peanut butter flavour because he knows the little kid is allergic.

I agree the Left of the ALP has been in a state of semi stagnation in recent decades.
Partly due to losing recruits to the Greens.

But Albo is PM now and from the socialist Left (even if he has been criticised for being too much of conciliator with the right to gain power) as well as being the protege of Tom Uren.

Rather than going straight to eating our own we should give him a few years to move the country to the Left.

Anyone who expects huge things day one is a moron.
The Libs never do this do they?
They use death by a thousand cuts to make things unrecognisable after a decade in power.

Gough burned bright and we are all blessed that he did but I for one would like to see a few decades of Labor in power to completely reshape the country for the present and future.





I said the Left faction of the ALP.

However unlike the Greens the ALP has never formed a coalition government with the Liberals now have they?

the ALP left may as well not exist as the ALP right run the show

The right of the greens and the left of the ALP might have some overlap but if you're in the ALP left you're still in the ALP and agreeing to run with what the party does which ain't actually left so how left are you really personally?

The right of the greens, yeah I'd prefer most of them to be booted from the party, but the end platforms of the two parties is miles apart

Also Albo isn't a socialist, I don't care about the propaganda, the dude's conservative as *, he's also been openly against socialists for over a decade much like he doesn't give two shits about people on welfare but likes to bring up his mum all the time, its an image

the cool lefty welfare kid politician

except he isn't

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

The option to go halves with the other kid they both hate is always there.
Of course he will insist on peanut butter flavour because he knows the little kid is allergic.

I agree the Left of the ALP has been in a state of semi stagnation in recent decades.
Partly due to losing recruits to the Greens.

But Albo is PM now and from the socialist Left (even if he has been criticised for being too much of conciliator with the right to gain power) as well as being the protege of Tom Uren.

Rather than going straight to eating our own we should give him a few years to move the country to the Left.

Anyone who expects huge things day one is a moron.
The Libs never do this do they?
They use death by a thousand cuts to make things unrecognisable after a decade in power.

Gough burned bright and we are all blessed that he did but I for one would like to see a few decades of Labor in power to completely reshape the country for the present and future.





I said the Left faction of the ALP.

However unlike the Greens the ALP has never formed a coalition government with the Liberals now have they?

There's no real left faction in the ALP anymore. They are a centrist party really now.
If there was a left faction they would speak out about climate, immigration, housing, the wealth gap, old growth logging, welfare.
Albo's 43% climate target is pitiful by any measure, he want's to open more gas and coal fields even though we are amoungst the world's biggest exporters, he has no housing solution, no homelessness solution, he's given the green light to live animal exports and the party is run by antiquated coal unions.
No proper barrier reef plan, no mask recomendation.
He just looks left because the Coalition are so extremist far right now.

 

[Power Raid]

There's no real left faction in the ALP anymore. They are a centrist party really now.
If there was a left faction they would speak out about climate, immigration, housing, the wealth gap, old growth logging, welfare.
Albo's 43% climate target is pitiful by any measure, he want's to open more gas and coal fields even though we are amoungst the world's biggest exporters, he has no housing solution, no homelessness solution, he's given the green light to live animal exports and the party is run by antiquated coal unions.
No proper barrier reef plan, no mask recomendation.
He just looks left because the Coalition are so extremist far right now.

would a mask recommendation make him more left?

and his housing policy was a pretty decent one. Homelessness should be on everyone's agenda, with the feds writing cheques to support the states roll out a plan.

 

[William Wonka]

Um I just double checked, and no, the Greens have never formed a coalition government with the Libs.

What on earth have you been smoking? I don't want some.

Check again.
Check Tasmania in the late 90s especially closely

Where greens support conservatives: lessons from the Rundle minority government in Tasmania 1996-98

This paper examines the Greens’ support of the conservative Liberal Rundle minority government in Tasmania (1996-98) in the context of Tasmania’s political greening, and with an interest in the operation and experience of this government, and its policy impact in a number of key areas. Although...

ecite.utas.edu.au

I await your contrite apology

 

[Baltimore Jack]

The Greens just need to learn early on that putting their requests quietly and respectfully will equal results whereas posturing will get the opposite.

Yes of course we have to learn our place and sit in the corner until called upon

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Albos only issue with the Greens is them taking lower house seats from Labor.
The ideology of the ALP left and the Greens is virtually identical.

No, no it isn't (and I've been/am in both)

 

[William Wonka]

No, no it isn't (and I've been/am in both)

Then yu prove my point don't yu?

 

[William Wonka]

Yes of course we have to learn our place and sit in the corner until called upon

I wouldn't expect yu will be called on.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Then yu prove my point don't yu?

I don't think I do, was my answer a little difficult to understand, particularly the bit where I said "no it isn't"

I can simplify it a bit for you, if you like

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I wouldn't expect yu will be called on.

Ah now I get it, you have no idea how the Senate works....all makes sense now