Sport The Hangar Cricket Thread IV

ant555

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One thing people always forget about Lee was the stuffed him by playing him in the series against India when his ankle first played up, Before that he was close to being as good as it gets. Then he plays that series on a suspect ankle and then suffers from it for the rest of his career.
Turned him into reasonable test bowler after being a star as he could only ever bowl a few overs before it started playing up again.
 

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EFC 1871

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Better than Tendulkar, made more of his runs on pitches that weren't subcontinental roads.
I think Sachin was better, but it was interesting to see a comparison of their averages depending on their side's score at the time they each came in.

Essentially, Tendulkar averaged around 40 if he came in with Indian on 80 or less, whereas Kallis averaged closer to 60.

Tendulkar's average skyrocketed when he came in with India already on 100, which seems consistent with the knock that he wasn't a man to turn a game like the other modern greats.
 

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Howard Moon

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I think Sachin was better, but it was interesting to see a comparison of their averages depending on their side's score at the time they each came in.

Essentially, Tendulkar averaged around 40 if he came in with Indian on 80 or less, whereas Kallis averaged closer to 60.

Tendulkar's average skyrocketed when he came in with India already on 100, which seems consistent with the knock that he wasn't a man to turn a game like the other modern greats.
how many genuine game turners do you think we have had of late?

by game turners would you mean be able to take the game away from the opposition in a session like a Warner or a Gilly , or being able to resurrect an innings when the chips are falling down around you.

youd have to think Waugh, Ponting, Hussey, Clarke have all had that quality but neither would be in the Tendulkar bracket i guess.. or would they? I guess only Ponting (Clarke story not finished)

is Ponting in the same bracket as Tendulkar and Kallis? did we disrespect a great by hounding him into retirement?
 

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game turner is a stupidly subjective term for me. just so so so hard to measure without bias.

I think Sachin was better, but it was interesting to see a comparison of their averages depending on their side's score at the time they each came in.

Essentially, Tendulkar averaged around 40 if he came in with Indian on 80 or less, whereas Kallis averaged closer to 60.

Tendulkar's average skyrocketed when he came in with India already on 100, which seems consistent with the knock that he wasn't a man to turn a game like the other modern greats.
Got a feeling that stat isn't based on each batsman's performances at 4. Kallis played a lot of innings at 3 and Sachin played zero there ie Kallis had a lot more opportunity to score runs with less than 80 runs on the board.

You can certainly factor Sachin never batting @ 3 v Kallis batting there about 80 times into your opinion regrading which batsman was better though.
 

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When he was on song and the mood took him, Lara is the best batsman I've seen.

And by an absolute mile my favourite to watch. That 226 he made in his last Test in Australia remains my favourite non-Australian hundred.
 

Howard Moon

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Its usually ageed that shorter statured players make great batsmen, for many technical reasons but Tendulkar 5'5, Bradman 5'7, Lara 5'8, Ponting 5'10, are a good batch to start with,

Seems Kallis at 6'3 kind of breaks that mould too, if it indeed is harder to bat as a taller type it raises his standings in my mind also.
 

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Heard an excellent interview last night with 1965 premiership full back Greg Brown on SEN. He is very well spoken and still sharp as a tack.

Brown, along with Barry Davis played in the famous district cricket final where Essendon made 9 dec for 514 and Bill Lawry made 282 not out and guided Northcote to the premiership. Brown mentioned amongst other things that Essendon coach John Coleman made him and Davis play in a football practice match the morning of one of the days of the cricket final. Just what they needed I'm sure when they couldn't get dam Lawry and Northcote out.
 

Howard Moon

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Heard an excellent interview last night with 1965 premiership full back Greg Brown on SEN. He is very well spoken and still sharp as a tack.

Brown, along with Barry Davis played in the famous district cricket final where Essendon made 9 dec for 514 and Bill Lawry made 282 not out and guided Northcote to the premiership. Brown mentioned amongst other things that Essendon coach John Coleman made him and Davis play in a football practice match the morning of one of the days of the cricket final. Just what they needed I'm sure when they couldn't get dam Lawry and Northcote out.
he said they dropped lawry 3 times or something?
 

Dan Cooper

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he said they dropped lawry 3 times or something?
Yep, two easy ones and one half chance, I think Brown said.

I've read many times that when Essendon declared at 9 for 514, and probably justifiably felt they were in an excellent position, Lawry was heard to comment "not enough runs".
 

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Howard Moon

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how good is Lawry! still sharp as a tack at his age, joy to hear his commentary last week. my favorite was....

theres lots of rubbish strewn over the ground Bill: yeh, the english batsmen. gold.

i liked when they said he was a bit of an appealer.. and he said yeh, back in the day my captain had to reprimand me for appealing from deep fine leg. haha
 

Dan Cooper

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how good is Lawry! still sharp as a tack at his age, joy to hear his commentary last week. my favorite was....

theres lots of rubbish strewn over the ground Bill: yeh, the english batsmen. gold.

i liked when they said he was a bit of an appealer.. and he said yeh, back in the day my captain had to reprimand me for appealing from deep fine leg. haha
He is indeed a gem old Bill, and his cricket knowledge is exceeded by few. As you said, still sharp as a tack, and his thoughts are still relevant today even over 50 years after he retired from playing.

Lawry was a nightmare to get out at Test level because he was genuine Test quality and placed such a high value on his wicket. No wonder he had the confidence (or gall) to suggest 514 runs wasn't enough in a district final when he was on the other team :)
 

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by game turners would you mean be able to take the game away from the opposition in a session like a Warner or a Gilly , or being able to resurrect an innings when the chips are falling down around you.
I consider it just being able to make runs when your side isn't, on a consistent basis.

As Phone said it's pretty intangible, and you can (or should) only rate it based on games you've seen as opposed to read about, but I think it's a fair enough consideration of how to rate a player.
is Ponting in the same bracket as Tendulkar and Kallis? did we disrespect a great by hounding him into retirement?
I'd probably rate the retired batsman that I've seen something like:

Tendulkar
Lara
Ponting
Kallis
Dravid
S Waugh

With people like Smith, Cook, Clarke and Pietersen likely to be right up there by the time they retire.
 

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Steve Waugh put it best with Lara: "He was a good player of average bowling, and a great player of good bowling. When backed into a corner by the quality of the opposition or by his own brinkmanship, he elevated himself into a genius".



I also think any modern list needs to include Chanderpaul. Say what you like about his crab technique, his record since about 2007 would be just about as good as anyone in the world.
 

BrunoV

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Reckon in that 4th over Borthwick showed enough to be given 10 to 15 tests.

All you need to be able to do is beat the bat like that. Get Warne in to mentor both Borthwick and Cook and let it all unfold.

Leg spin is probably one of those things. There are no good young leggies. They are developed.

I've seen Zampa bowl for Adelaide in the T20 and there seem to have a lot to work with.
 

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One thing that really bugs me is the boisterous appeal followed by the decision not to refer.

Without all of the convention isn't it just cheating?
 
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