Sport The Hangar Cricket Thread IV

Yoda_

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Just on the Siddle v Pieterson battle, looking at an article, hows this for a damning stat that Howard Moon said perfectly.

Kevin Pieterson (strike rate);

v Nathan Lyon, 70.42
v Mitch Johnson, 45.87
v Ryan Harris, 39.28
v Peter Siddle, 21.50

"it is death by suffocation" says Brydon Coverdale after the WACA test (December 14, 2013)


Carberry was a white ball specialist from memory Doss? Similar to how Warner got his gig?

Looking at his numbers, he had a pretty bloody good opening to the Ashes tour. Scores of 78 (versus WA 2nd XI), 153 (versus Australia A), a 0 & 50* (versus Invitational/Presidents XI) and then a handy second innings 37*(versus a Chairman's XI after the first test) all but guaranteed his test position for the series.


Think you summed him up before though, his inability to convert his starts (8/10 double figure scores - 1 half century) will ultimately cost him his place for the as previously mentioned Nick Compton.

I personally would have given a test debut to Alex Hales, the clean striking Melbourne Stars opener who is apparently the only top 10 T20I player to HAVE NOT made his test debut (edit. Aaron Finch has just entered the top 10 so two of the 10 haven't).

Would have given them something completely different. The talent is there (6 first class centuries, 22 half centuries from 104 innings), could just use the opportunity.
 

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Yoda_

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Don't forget Trott to come back when he's addressed whatever he needs to.
No Mitch Johnson in the West Indies so he'll no doubt be back in March in the Caribbean.


(little junk time stat, Nathan Lyon [1]has hit MORE test 6's than run machine Johnathan Trott [0] lol)
 

Yoda_

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Don't think that ever happened to Bradman, just quietly. ;)

It was just that he'd generally average about 120 every Ashes series.
You are correct about the Don

however

Bill Johnston managed to complete this feat twice in the 1949/50 Ashes and again in the 1953 ashes.
Only thing about each series? he managed to accumulate 2 runs from 2 innings in 49/50 and 22 runs from 6 innings in '53.

Lyon managed 59 runs across his 6 innings in Australia that, should he have been dismissed once, would have put him only behind Brad Haddin as the series leading batting average.
 

Doss

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Yeah, I remember reading about Johnston's feat.

McGrath managed to almost do it once too, from memory. Think it was 1998/99 tour of the West Indies. I'm only going off the top of my head here, but he may well have finished second in the averages, behind Steve Waugh. That series our batting struggled very badly against Ambrose and Walsh, just for a change. And Lara made something like 600 runs.
 

Stopher

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Carberry had stuff all luck. Some great catches to dismiss him, that ball rolling onto his stumps too. Ouch. But then you could argue THAT dropped catch off Haddin could have cost him a ratings point on its own, it was horrible and extremely costly. It seems stupid that they have discarded Compton who actually did ok (and in India too) and look like doing the same with Carberry, despite losing Strauss and Trott from the top 3 in recent times.

I'm still amazed Finn didn't even get a look in for the last two Tests. Rankin and Tremlett looked hopeless in the single game they each played.
 
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Finn leaks runs, he only gets wickets because guys are trying to hit him out of the park.
Would you guys persist with Carberry?
I don't think the poms have anyone else waiting in the wings to take his spot. You have to at least give him a year to find his feet at the top level anyway, you can't expect a guy to come in and start making big scores against the most hostile bowling we've seen since Lillee and Thompson. Keep in mind he was the third best batsman for England too, so it would be a bit stiff to drop him when so many others with more experience failed more than him.
 

Pweter

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England aren't in that bad of a place player-wise though imo. They were just mentally bashed and rolled over this past tour.

Cook - given his record and age I doubt this is the beginning of the end, just in poor form atm
Bell - as above
Compton - bewildering as to why he was omitted in the first place unless he's a nutjob off the field
Carberry - one of the few Pom batsmen who occupied the crease for any period of time, at least worth persisting with for a bit longer I reckon and have Compton give no. 3 a go. Almost in a similar position to Rogers after our English tour.
Stokes - would love him in the baggy green. The kid has a future.
Broad - love him or hate him, he is a quality international cricketer
Anderson - younger than Mitchell Johnson and has been durable, no reason why he can't continue

Is KP in the frame of mind to keep going? Does Root have what it takes as an international batsmen (shows glimpses ala 2nd innings in Adelaide)? Where is their next spinner? Do they have any more decent fast bowlers in the wings?

There are definitely questions England need to answer but I don't think they are in as badder shape as a 5-0 belting indicates. If they can clear their heads and use this as a spur they should recover pretty quickly and be more than competitive at home against Sri Lanka and India. At the end of the day, very few teams are doing any good aways from home at present, the one that starts doing this first will be world number 1 in no time.
 

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EFC 1871

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Swann will be the biggest loss, I'd say.

Other than that, their pace stocks are fine and their batsmen will regain form.

I agree Pweter, they're certainly not where we were after the 2010/11 Ashes; they just had a horrible series.
 

Howard Moon

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the big knock on their pace stocks is if it dosent swing they are toothless....

they dont have that enforcer who can blast a top order away... or the big hearted siddle who can pry away all day on a length.. Bresnan was ok at it but they must have other plans?
 

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Broad will only get better over the next two years.
I don't get the hate for Broad. I know I'm in the minority but whatever.

You mentioned the pace stocks as being OK but I think they are thin. Anderson, Broad and Stokes seem to have what it takes, Bresnan is ok at best, Tremlett and Rankin seem very much "built like Tarzan, play like Jane" types, Finn is all over the shop, Onions seems to be more a 1 day bowler.... probably plenty I am missing but who else do they have?
 

EFC 1871

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Yeah they're the ones that I was thinking of, plus you'd assume there are one or two young guys we don't know of.

I think Finn has a lot of potential, and based on the 2009 Ashes I rate Onions.

Bresnan is all you need from a 3rd seamer, at least in their home conditions, and I think Tremlett's better than what he showed in Brisbane.
 

Howard Moon

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maybe we are just blessed at the moment and think that other attacks should be atleast close to ours?

im sure most countries dont have 3-4 quality quicks waiting in the wings, most may be lucky to have their 3 or so real quality performers like England do.

ive just had a thought though....

We had pretty much the same attack in England bar one... lost series 3-0 or whatever
this time 5-0

only diff johnson v stark.

is it too simple to say Johnson made the turnaround?
 

Pweter

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maybe we are just blessed at the moment and think that other attacks should be atleast close to ours?

im sure most countries dont have 3-4 quality quicks waiting in the wings, most may be lucky to have their 3 or so real quality performers like England do.

ive just had a thought though....

We had pretty much the same attack in England bar one... lost series 3-0 or whatever
this time 5-0

only diff johnson v stark.

is it too simple to say Johnson made the turnaround?
The reason I asked if I were missing anyone from the England names I mentioned is I don't know about injuries. Do they have someone like Cummins who looked like he'd be the next big thing save for injuries, someone like Pattinson who does well when he plays but can't last a series, do they have quality bowlers in county cricket we simply don't know about like Bird, Sayers and the like in our Shield etc.

We can mention names of our guys as we see them. If that was the best England could bring out here are their stocks that thin or are there names we don't know about and reasons they didn't tour?

I agree, the stars seem to have aligned for us for a change and no country has 8 test quality speedsters ready to go at once, but I think England's bowling talent drops away very quickly.
 

Howard Moon

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The reason I asked if I were missing anyone from the England names I mentioned is I don't know about injuries. Do they have someone like Cummins who looked like he'd be the next big thing save for injuries, someone like Pattinson who does well when he plays but can't last a series, do they have quality bowlers in county cricket we simply don't know about like Bird, Sayers and the like in our Shield etc.

We can mention names of our guys as we see them. If that was the best England could bring out here are their stocks that thin or are there names we don't know about and reasons they didn't tour?

I agree, the stars seem to have aligned for us for a change and no country has 8 test quality speedsters ready to go at once, but I think England's bowling talent drops away very quickly.
i agree fully, as i said if it dosent swing i think they are toothless, Broad cant bowl all day, small bursts only and they lack that express enforcer.

But in the right conditions, like at home they are formidable! Anderson can be unplayable at times, moves both ways on a whim.. you have no sooner seen off the new ball and its starting to reverse!
 
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I feel that the poms have some pretty big problems in the pace department, Anderson is useless if the ball doesn't swing, Broad is decent, Bresnan is too fat to bowl a lot of overs, Stokes is a part timer at best who gets guys out slogging, Rankin, Tremlett and Finn are guys who meet the criteria of being tall but lack that pace and venom needed to trouble batters at the top level if the pitch isn't a minefield. Their problem is that they don't seem to have anyone with Xfactor sticking their hands up in the county comp.

Batting-wise the conditions didn't favour their technique, Root did well on the subcontinent where playing back in the crease works well but him and several others got shown up by the pacy Australian pitches. Peitersen is a flat track bully, Cook is similar to Root in that he gets caught on the crease on fast pitches. Carberry can play but it is too early to say whether or not he can make it long term.

Captaincy-wise Cook sucks. England salvaged a lot of games as they were emerging from their 20 year rut by playing very negatively and waiting for the opposition to **** up. That strategy seems to have become ingrained in their mindset because he appeared incapable of setting an attacking field all summer. In addition the bowlers don't seem to listen or respect him.
 

Howard Moon

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just had a big stoush with my south african 'friend' about the upcoming series.... hope i havent put myself in it... transcript;

HIM: Australia is in for a big suprise, we are not England, I love it when Australia gets arrogant like it did in the rugby last year , see what happened? did you not come from a series loss to England before this? and lost to India? we just hammered India ..very cocky!

HIM: You beat England in Australia, we whitewashed England in England, at one stage this series you were 6/96, cant wait to flog you..

ME: Listen block head ever since we sacked your south african coach Arthurs we have won everything, best attack in the world now, youre batsmen are out of form.. look out!

HIM: Who has the number one and two ranked bowlers again? did you not recently get pantsed in India? Also what are you smoking, De Villiers and Du Plessis scored big tons, Steyn scored 30s Pieterson two 60s, Smith got starts, only Duminy and Amla have not performed, if you have the best attack why are you not number one?, you got white washed by India, Aus does not come close to us in test cricket, siddle, Johnson and clarke will eat their words

ME: Do you not listen? We lost to India under a saffa, he stuffed everything, since we got an aussie back in charge we have flown. Watch your backs, its proven the protea cant handle johnson, bat or ball. plus!, India doctored the pitches, we have a pace attack and dont handle spin, the pitches fell apart on day one.. series was a farce. Your pitches are to our liking.

HIM: We can handle Johnson, just remeber this name.. de kock

ME: your de kock?

HIM: ...if you were 6/96 vs Englands attack how do you expect to handle the number one attack in the world? Dont blame Arthurs, you obviosuly saw something in him to give him the job, We just proved why we are number one, we never let the worlds number one batting team get ontop of us.

ME:We have a winning mentality, Arthurs tried to rotate the squad, lost the dressing room, we were 6/96 on a green wicket, went on to make over 250 and bowled them out twice.. context please block head.

HIM: trust me if you were 6/96 vs us you would not get near 250. There is a certain aussie coaching in India , he couldnt handle SA

ME: we are not India, we can play away from home, who did you last lose a series to at home?

HIM: Just rememebr this name... Quentin de kock. .. we havent lost a series in 5 years. dont forget we bowled you all out for 47 and we playing in PE again.

ME: we last beat you at home, last series you lost there... by the way 3 test series.. chicken?

HIM: we bowled you out for 47 at newlands, thats all i rememeber, we only play 3 test series cause teams like India are scred to play 5

ME: your a knob. we carried 3 players all summer, will get better, dont take us lightly, we have our mojo back.

HIM:you are taking us lightly!

ME: no we are not taking you lightly, we are starting a mental game, everybody knows SA crack under mental pressure, always have, always will.

HIM: no that was years ago, Kirsten has taught us how to be calm under pressure

ME: we have our aura back, just be careful, the SA stain has been washed away.

HIM: ill text you after we win the series

ME: ill text you after we win the first test, series will be a draw anyway... ill take that.


hmmm have i put myself in it?

can we win the series or not get flogged? im tipping a draw but could have rose coloured glasses.

wonder who this de kock is?
 
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can we win the series or not get flogged? im tipping a draw but could have rose coloured glasses.

wonder who this de kock is?


Not a bad ODI batting average for a guy just starting out.


It all depends on which Johnson shows up, 2013/14 Johnson and we have a chance, old Johnson and the Saffers will walk all over us.
 

Pweter

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just had a big stoush with my south african 'friend' about the upcoming series.... hope i havent put myself in it... transcript;

transcript

hmmm have i put myself in it?

can we win the series or not get flogged? im tipping a draw but could have rose coloured glasses.

wonder who this de kock is?
You're playing a dangerous game there. This is a series that will be on for young and old, my concern is needing our lower order to bail out our top order when the ball is actually zipping about this time round.
 

Howard Moon

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Not a bad ODI batting average for a guy just starting out.


It all depends on which Johnson shows up, 2013/14 Johnson and we have a chance, old Johnson and the Saffers will walk all over us.
i guess we could take johnson on face value, this reincarnation seems to be more mature and has a better run in and action. He seems to like it there too, had a great series last time, true all rounder, scored a ton even didnt he?
 
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