Sport The Hangar Cricket Thread IV

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ponting's great, but he has some weaknesses, and Pujara showed it all series. Ponting simply can't understand someone batting like that, and yet it saved India one match and put them in a position where they couldn't really lose this match, allowing them to launch for the victory.

it's not as bad as when Warne doesn't get something and drills it into the ground, but it's very noticeable.
 
TheGrizz said:
So, one bad series and they are out?

Glad you arent a selector.
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Gone sub 30 once in his last 8 series.

The end is coming quickly.
 

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boncer34 said:
Gone sub 30 once in his last 8 series.
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..and? He has a career average of 32.07.

And with exception to a very small sample in 2020, Lyon has gone sub 30 over a calendar year only 3 times in the last 9. In 2018 and 2019 (again, last two uninterrupted years) he has 45+ wickets, about his career average.

He is not at the point where we just write him off and run him out of the side, for mine.
 
TheGrizz said:
..and? He has a career average of 32.07.

And with exception to a very small sample in 2020, Lyon has gone sub 30 over a calendar year only 3 times in the last 9. In 2018 and 2019 (again, last two uninterrupted years) he has 45+ wickets, about his career average.

He is not at the point where we just write him off and run him out of the side, for mine.
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And in the 8 before that he went sub 30 5 times.

And in the last 8 he's gone below his career strike rate just once.

And we now have a legitimate other spinning option available that we haven't for awhile.

Lyon has been good but he's never been untouchable. Only 4 blokes in that team currently are.

He struggles in South Africa and the jungle drums will beat loudly.
 
HirdsTheWord said:
seriously though absolutely amazing by India.

They just ended a few Australian players careers I think.
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If Wade plays another test I’ll spew. I have plenty of time for Harris. Big ask to come in and perform not having played for two months.
Lyon is a twat. I can’t stand the guy but he’s had a bad series. He’ll still be playing next Summer but we need someone coming through.
Paine has helped guide the team but the questions will be asked now. Might be getting close to giving the job to Cummins. Interesting times.
 
Phone said:
ponting's great, but he has some weaknesses, and Pujara showed it all series. Ponting simply can't understand someone batting like that, and yet it saved India one match and put them in a position where they couldn't really lose this match, allowing them to launch for the victory.

it's not as bad as when Warne doesn't get something and drills it into the ground, but it's very noticeable.
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Is there anyone in Australian that understands the value in batting time?
 
Also the thing that doesn't get much attention is that Australian conditions barely give our quicks the advantage they would have had to 2010ish.

Two pitches in a row in which the pitch was doing nothing deep into day 5. It's not uncommon. It's also part of the reason we bowl like a pack of bozos. You can just sit the ball on a length at medium pace. The ball doesn't swing a lot which also rules out selecting the more creative swing bowlers.

We should have bowled like we were in
India. That's closer to the conditions.

I reckon that if McGrath played now he'd probably have an inferior record to Hazlewoodz, closer to 30. Hazlewood is a gun but he'll never replicate McGrath's numbers despite having all of the tricks and more grunt. McGrath's genius was extracting just enough out of the pitch. I dont see how that works when there is nothing in the pitch.
 
BrunoV said:
Good record over a long period too.

His record does not support my position but his stock ball just doesn't look good enough. Not for a leggie.
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People said the same about Lyon. To quick, not enough turn etc.
 

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boncer34 said:
And in the 8 before that he went sub 30 5 times.

And in the last 8 he's gone below his career strike rate just once.

And we now have a legitimate other spinning option available that we haven't for awhile.

Lyon has been good but he's never been untouchable. Only 4 blokes in that team currently are.

He struggles in South Africa and the jungle drums will beat loudly.
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Swepson has been good in the shield, but i am not convinced he could have done better than Lyon this series considering the pitches and the quality of the opposition.

I also think his struggles are a product of the entire bowling unit struggling to penetrate India's top/middle order the last 2 tests, Cummins aside of course.

Swepson will get his chance eventually, i just dont think now is the time to drop Lyon.
 
boncer34 said:
People said the same about Lyon. To quick, not enough turn etc.
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Swepson like Lyon is classical or conventional spinner. He's not bowling 15 different deliveries (3 or 4 of which are unreadable).

That means he needs drift, dip and significant spin or MacGill levels spin and a wrongun which turns as much the other way. I see neither from Swepson as things stand. Lyon developed both but I don't remember when and the question is whether Swepson has the capacity to evolve his bowling in this way.

Lyon was dropped in the 2013 Ashes for Agar at about the same age as Swepson is now. I suppose Swepson could develop these characteristic in his bowling but I wouldn't be exposing him to more than a dust bowl as the number 2 behind Lyon until he does.

It's very hard to see a leg spinner developing the craft on the international stage. It's much too difficult a skill and Lyon barely survived despite facing about half the challenges Swepson would (by virtue of the increased degree of difficult in leg sin bowling). It goes to show that Warne really was Bradman level of freak show. From day 1 as a kid he could land a leg break on a 5c piece, drifting about 1 foot in the air, aggressively dipping, with the seam perfectly angled and which would then turn massively (and he still got smashed!).

The only Australian leggie I've seen since Warne that has looked the part is Muirhead and his arm fell apart for it. It actually makes me wonder about those diuretics.
 
BrunoV said:
Swepson like Lyon is classical or conventional spinner. He's not bowling 15 different deliveries (3 or 4 of which are unreadable).

That means he needs drift, dip and significant spin or MacGill levels spin and a wrongun which turns as much the other way. I see neither from Swepson as things stand. Lyon developed both but I don't remember when and the question is whether Swepson has the capacity to evolve his bowling in this way.

Lyon was dropped in the 2013 Ashes for Agar at about the same age as Swepson is now. I suppose Swepson could develop these characteristic in his bowling but I wouldn't be exposing him to more than a dust bowl as the number 2 behind Lyon until he does.

It's very hard to see a leg spinner developing the craft on the international stage. It's much too difficult a skill and Lyon barely survived despite facing about half the challenges Swepson would (by virtue of the increased degree of difficult in leg sin bowling). It goes to show that Warne really was Bradman level of freak show. From day 1 as a kid he could land a leg break on a 5c piece, drifting about 1 foot in the air, aggressively dipping, with the seam perfectly angled and which would then turn massively (and he still got smashed!).

The only Australian leggie I've seen since Warne that has looked the part is Muirhead and his arm fell apart for it. It actually makes me wonder about those diuretics.
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I think Lloyd Pope shows some promise, but he is unrefined at the moment and certainly isnt test level yet.

He can be super expensive and when he tries to get extra revs on his stock ball leggy he can really mess up his length, but he is only 21 and he has plenty of time at Shield level to get that right

His wrongun though is a thing of beauty.
 
BrunoV said:
Good record over a long period too.

His record does not support my position but his stock ball just doesn't look good enough. Not for a leggie.
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If you ask Stuart MacGill (who, for me is currently the best person to listen to talk about leg spin) he says to be successful as a leggie, your most dangerous delivery has to be the legbreak, which it is for Swepson.
TheGrizz said:
I think Lloyd Pope shows some promise, but he is unrefined at the moment and certainly isnt test level yet.

He can be super expensive and when he tries to get extra revs on his stock ball leggy he can really mess up his length, but he is only 21 and he has plenty of time at Shield level to get that right

His wrongun though is a thing of beauty.
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Lloyd Pope is inferior to Wil Parker by my viewing. Parker has good control unlike Pope, who's leggie isn't great (often drops short as you say) and he's overly reliant on his wrong'un.

Swepson doesn't have the same hype but he's a significantly better prospect for me.
 
eth-dog said:
If you ask Stuart MacGill (who, for me is currently the best person to listen to talk about leg spin) he says to be successful as a leggie, your most dangerous delivery has to be the legbreak, which it is for Swepson.
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It has to be actually dangerous at test level. That's the unknown.

It doesn't look it to me for the reasons I have given. No huge rip/no significant spin combined with drift and dip.
 
eth-dog said:
If you ask Stuart MacGill (who, for me is currently the best person to listen to talk about leg spin) he says to be successful as a leggie, your most dangerous delivery has to be the legbreak, which it is for Swepson.

Lloyd Pope is inferior to Wil Parker by my viewing. Parker has good control unlike Pope, who's leggie isn't great (often drops short as you say) and he's overly reliant on his wrong'un.

Swepson doesn't have the same hype but he's a significantly better prospect for me.
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Wil Parker has played two games of shield cricket whilst Pope has two seasons and a 7/for at shield level.

Short of a heavy set of Victorian-centric goggles i do not see how you can say Parker is the superior player at this point. He may well be more likely as a prospect in your eyes, which is your prerogative.
 
BrunoV said:
It has to be actually dangerous at test level. That's the unknown.

It doesn't look it to me for the reasons I have given. No huge rip/no significant spin combined with drift and dip.
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Well he's more dangerous than any of our other options at Shield level at the moment.

I would disagree with the "no huge rip" part having seen plenty of him at Shield level, he bowls significantly different in T20 and ODD cricket.
TheGrizz said:
Wil Parker has played two games of shield cricket whilst Pope has two seasons and a 7/for at shield level.

Short of a heavy set of Victorian-centric goggles i do not see how you can say Parker is the superior player at this point. He may well be more likely as a prospect in your eyes, which is your prerogative.
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Sorry, a better prospect.

Pope took one wicket last season and has 7 wickets at 72 this season. He's nowhere near FC standard at this point.
 
Parker has taken 7 wickets at Premier cricket (1s) in the past 2 seasons from 13 games. (His home games are played on a relatively bowler friendly wicket at Central Reserve...compared to other premier tracks). He has taken 179 wickets and the majority of them were when he bowled pace as a young junior. Switched to spin after an injury about 5 years ago. He has taken 40 wickets in 4 seasons (bowling spin) at Premier cricket with more than half of those in 3s and 4s. Pope has taken 564 wickets...most would be leg spin. I agree though, LP needs to learn to take the majority with his stock leg spin ball in longer forms. That googly should be an absolute weapon in t20.
 
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