Politics The Hangar Politics Thread

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Vander18 said:
Has some gaffes on race that make Eddie look like Martin Luther King.
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Well established. I'm asking why him first. Also wondering if old mate above was concerned with Trump's links to white supremacist groups.

I'm guessing not.
 
DapperJong said:
Well established. I'm asking why him first. Also wondering if old mate above was concerned with Trump's links to white supremacist groups.

I'm guessing not.
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You’d have to show me where he has indicated support for either Trump or white supremacy - I don’t recall that being the case.

Question for you and others - how comfortable are you with Biden as President given some of his comments on race?

I paraphrase but the one around “poor kids are just as smart as white kids” stands out as a shocker. I remain surprised he hasn’t paid a price for that and other racially insensitive comments.
 

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Vander18 said:
You’d have to show me where he has indicated support for either Trump or white supremacy - I don’t recall that being the case.

Question for you and others - how comfortable are you with Biden as President given some of his comments on race?

I paraphrase but the one around “poor kids are just as smart as white kids” stands out as a shocker. I remain surprised he hasn’t paid a price for that and other racially insensitive comments.
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Its the eternal conundrum in a two party system here isn't it - do you support a giant douche, or a turd sandwich?

Personally, I think there are probably a million more suitable and qualified people to be president than Joe Biden - he's a super old, out of touch white guy with a racist and classist history. However, he was recently vice president to a black guy, and has proven he's willing to entertain the more moderate ideas in his party so maybe he has learnt a thing or two from that experience?

But obviously when the choice is between him and donald trump, well you have to take the lesser of the two evils every time right? The system is broken, and you have try to and hope that someone might be able to mend some parts of it from within. trump was never going to be that guy
 
jmoo wan said:
Its the eternal conundrum in a two party system here isn't it - do you support a giant douche, or a turd sandwich?

Personally, I think there are probably a million more suitable and qualified people to be president than Joe Biden - he's a super old, out of touch white guy with a racist and classist history. However, he was recently vice president to a black guy, and has proven he's willing to entertain the more moderate ideas in his party so maybe he has learnt a thing or two from that experience?

But obviously when the choice is between him and donald trump, well you have to take the lesser of the two evils every time right? The system is broken, and you have try to and hope that someone might be able to mend some parts of it from within. trump was never going to be that guy
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I agree - yes better than Trump but geez that is a low bar. I think he was mediocre in his prime, less than that now and better than Trump is the only prism through which he can be seen as viable.

I find myself wondering how we got here - two old buffoons duelling for the position of most powerful man in the world.
 
Vander18 said:
how comfortable are you with Biden as President given some of his comments on race?
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It concerns me as much as it should any Australian citizen. Which is why I wouldn't derail a football thread with it.
 
Vander18 said:
I agree - yes better than Trump but geez that is a low bar. I think he was mediocre in his prime, less than that now and better than Trump is the only prism through which he can be seen as viable.

I find myself wondering how we got here - two old buffoons duelling for the position of most powerful man in the world.
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well see that's your problem right there - if you honestly cant see anything but daylight between trump and biden, and conflate the two as both being just old buffoons you just might be a little bit part of the problem
 
jmoo wan said:
well see that's your problem right there - if you honestly cant see anything but daylight between trump and biden, and conflate the two as both being just old buffoons you just might be a little bit part of the problem
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What rubbish.

I imagine I dislike Trump as much as most. I’m just not prepared to minimise and normalise what I see as Biden’s issues and pretend he’s something I don’t think he is. He’s not Trump clearly but I think we should hope for more than that.
 
Vander18 said:
What rubbish.

I imagine I dislike Trump as much as most. I’m just not prepared to minimise and normalise what I see as Biden’s issues and pretend he’s something I don’t think he is. He’s not Trump clearly but I think we should hope for more than that.
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There have been several major victories in this election, the Georgia senate runoff being the major Democrat victory and the enormous work done by Stacey Abrams to effect that result. It's a fallacy to say the equation is Biden v Trump; there are many components to each administration which shouldn't be discounted. The state Republican officials who stood up and defended their election results, the courts (remembering that judges are also elected in the US) who restored faith in the legal process and the people of Georgia who elected the two senators that make all the difference in the new Congress.

www.theguardian.com

How Black voters lifted Georgia Democrats to Senate runoff victories

Huge turnout – fueled by in large part by Stacey Abrams and LaTosha Brown – was key for Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Vander18 said:
What rubbish.

I imagine I dislike Trump as much as most. I’m just not prepared to minimise and normalise what I see as Biden’s issues and pretend he’s something I don’t think he is. He’s not Trump clearly but I think we should hope for more than that.
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When you actually get to the substance of the issue it's even better.

Biden is the one who drove the crime bill that locked up blacks in the 90s.

Check out the first few minutes here:



Biden on Obama is great too because you ain't black if you didn't vote for Joe

 
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Loonerty said:
Suddenly Bruno cares about race
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It depends what we're talking about really. Are we talking about actual racial issues or unquestioningly accepting propaganda on a subject we dont really know anything about?

Race has been used as a wedge to drive voting blocks apart in the US on a course that runs parallel to a degradation of black living standards and the improvment of civil rights.

So I'm immediately sceptical about the motivations of those who use it in politics.

Democrats have a strangle hold on most of the cities where black on black crime and black living standards are disastrous. A lot of the political establishment and bureaucracy in these cities is black. Baltimore, DC, Chicago and LA for example.

What does the condition of these places have to do with racism? Do black and democrat politicians who run these places need another 30 to 50 years to stop screwing "their people"?

But you're inferring I'm racist and because we're not having this conversation face to face I've reported your post.
 
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BrunoV said:
But you're inferring I'm racist and because we're not having this conversation face to face I've reported your post.
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I think the point is that people who bring up Biden’s past now are 30 years behind everyone else.

We know all of this. No one would dispute it.

Anyway, come along to the next BLM rally. You’ll love it 👍
 
BrunoV said:
When you actually get to the substance of the issue it's even better.

Biden is the one who drove the crime bill that locked up blacks in the 90s.

Check out the first few minutes here:



Biden on Obama is great too because you ain't black if you didn't vote for Joe

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Kamala Harris' record on criminal justice reforms in California is also controversial from a race viewpoint. So you're saying Biden is racist because of past policy ("Biden is the one who drove the crime bill that locked up blacks in the 90s.") even when he was Veep to a black president and chose a black Veep? Long bow.
 
sameolds33 said:
Kamala Harris' record on criminal justice reforms in California is also controversial from a race viewpoint. So you're saying Biden is racist because of past policy ("Biden is the one who drove the crime bill that locked up blacks in the 90s.") even when he was Veep to a black president and chose a black Veep? Long bow.
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Isn't that the Eddie McGuire defense? I hang out with, insert a person of minority here, therefore I can't be racist?

I dunno. If I was a racist with ambitions to becoming President of the US I'd be lining up to find a running mate with different coloured skin. It sure makes more sense than picking a white running mate, giving the opposition a chance to scream SEE HES STILL RACIST.

In Biden's case I think he's genuinely remorseful for his more controversial stances on race. He's had 30 years to reflect and for mine it seems like if he had his time again he'd do and say things very differently. He's exactly the man you want as President, some one who learns from their flaws rather than berating everyone else for them.

But I don't think it's all that long of a bow to draw, even if it's the wrong one here.
 
sameolds33 said:
Kamala Harris' record on criminal justice reforms in California is also controversial from a race viewpoint. So you're saying Biden is racist because of past policy ("Biden is the one who drove the crime bill that locked up blacks in the 90s.") even when he was Veep to a black president and chose a black Veep? Long bow.
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So you say overtly racist things but you're not racist because of politics?

FFS, Kamala Harris called Biden a sex offender and a racist during the primary.

Are we seriously now pretending that political expediency doesn't exist?
 
boncer34 said:
Isn't that the Eddie McGuire defense? I hang out with, insert a person of minority here, therefore I can't be racist?

I dunno. If I was a racist with ambitions to becoming President of the US I'd be lining up to find a running mate with different coloured skin. It sure makes more sense than picking a white running mate, giving the opposition a chance to scream SEE HES STILL RACIST.

In Biden's case I think he's genuinely remorseful for his more controversial stances on race. He's had 30 years to reflect and for mine it seems like if he had his time again he'd do and say things very differently. He's exactly the man you want as President, some one who learns from their flaws rather than berating everyone else for them.

But I don't think it's all that long of a bow to draw, even if it's the wrong one here.
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Biden isn't/wasn't "hanging out" with Obama and Harris - he's forming government with them. it's a long bow to equate those political decisions by the Democrats to win office with "the Eddie McGuire defence" - what ever that is. The US political landscape is a huge imperfect system that, in the end depended on two senate seats and a few states to decide the political fate of millions of people.

The criminal justice system is similarly enormous and flawed. It discriminates against the poor and disenfranchised, which in the US means black. Reform of decisions made 30 years ago won't happen overnight but it will happen more quickly when black communities exercise their voting power and elect the candidates with their mandate.

Agree with your para about Biden's remorse.
 
BrunoV said:
So you say overtly racist things but you're not racist because of politics?

FFS, Kamala Harris called Biden a sex offender and a racist during the primary.

Are we seriously now pretending that political expediency doesn't exist?
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No. You said "Biden is the one who drove the crime bill that locked up blacks in the 90s." I said that implementing policy that discriminates against blacks doesn't make him racist. As Calif AG Harris drove an equally controversial crime bill. Does that make her racist?
 
sameolds33 said:
Biden isn't/wasn't "hanging out" with Obama and Harris - he's forming government with them. it's a long bow to equate those political decisions by the Democrats to win office with "the Eddie McGuire defence" - what ever that is. The US political landscape is a huge imperfect system that, in the end depended on two senate seats and a few states to decide the political fate of millions of people.

The criminal justice system is similarly enormous and flawed. It discriminates against the poor and disenfranchised, which in the US means black. Reform of decisions made 30 years ago won't happen overnight but it will happen more quickly when black communities exercise their voting power and elect the candidates with their mandate.

Agree with your para about Biden's remorse.
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It's not a long bow at all. And you've kinda underscored my argument by saying they're political decisions designed to win office. A smart political decision is to be a black running mate with Biden to help counter any hint of racism.
 
Doss said:
How awesome is whataboutism?
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It's great you get to work out who is intellectually honest and who is not.

I've read about Trump's racism, his "links"to white supremacy, and posted some unquestioningly racist stuff by Biden and It's resulted in a combination of ad hominen, denial and snide rubbish.

What it goes to show is that people who make these comments can't think for themselves, are clueless and/or dishonest.

If you've listened to what Biden said about the crime bill, the most significant federal legislative contribution to structural racism in 50 years and possibly the only one in that time period, there is no doubt who he thought it was directed to or what support he was courting.

So no, and particularly when Trump gets the highest black vote in 60 years and gets a massive Mexican vote across the border districts, not to mention a huge share of the non-Mexican Latin vote, I'm not going to be lectured about racism by people that hold out Joe Biden as the credible alternative.
 
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Biden is probably racist, but Trump was much more racist so it's a win no matter how you look at it.

The US is utterly cooked from a social and political standpoint and the election of a racist but mostly well meaning old white dude is the best they could hope for.
 
boncer34 said:
Isn't that the Eddie McGuire defense? I hang out with, insert a person of minority here, therefore I can't be racist?

I dunno. If I was a racist with ambitions to becoming President of the US I'd be lining up to find a running mate with different coloured skin. It sure makes more sense than picking a white running mate, giving the opposition a chance to scream SEE HES STILL RACIST.

In Biden's case I think he's genuinely remorseful for his more controversial stances on race. He's had 30 years to reflect and for mine it seems like if he had his time again he'd do and say things very differently. He's exactly the man you want as President, some one who learns from their flaws rather than berating everyone else for them.

But I don't think it's all that long of a bow to draw, even if it's the wrong one here.
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Cant like this because Biden would have to have been grilled about the crime bill and then expressed remorse about it.

Obama didn't like Biden. I accept that president and vice hating each other, being unhappy marriages of different types for the sake of political expediency is nothing new.

But how long did it take Obama to endorse Biden? When every single candidate fell through.

Also if you're going to credit Biden as not racist but as cynically taking advantage then how do you not extend that to Trump?
 
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