News The Harvey-Rockliff-Scott Incident

[adey115]

Bit tough on Rocky, the man has plenty of passion for the club, i'd make him captain next year. We need tough, hard nuts, look at our premiership years brutality across the board, go hard at them Rocky, he apologized for the swear word and what he said to Harvey......job done move on.

Our former, and now retired, Captain once got reported on a very regular basis due to some undisciplined activities on the field, then spent the vast majority of his career incident free. Couldn't doubt his passion and enthusiasm for the club from when he was a kid - he just needed to learn the lessons of youth and mature into a senior player and mentor. Once he did, the players followed him into battle like disciples, hanging off every word and action.

I personally think that Tom is learning those sorts of lessons as we speak. A year or so away from the necessary maturity to lead the club into the future, as a more 'compact' version of JB perhaps.

Let's not forget that Ricky Ponting got in a punch up at the Bourbon and Beefsteak as a youngster. Maturity takes time.

 

[Ironmonger]

I still find it offensive that Harvey found a middle ground.
He either genuinely found it offensive (not just because it was aimed at him) or he took it as aggressive poor sportsmanship.
If it was said as rumoured, and he finds it offensive generally, then he should have made a direct complaint to the AFL (maybe he did) and should not be satisfied with a token $1000 fine and nor should he be happy that it hasn't been clearly publicised, what the offence was. Surely he should take a stand and bring attention to the issue. If Tom said what is rumoured, then a steeper fine is probably more appropriate and the issue should be addressed instead of swept under the carpet.
If Harvey was just upset because some poor sportsmanship was levelled at him, then he should have shut his mouth and left it out there. If he didn't find the term (alleged) truly offensive for the reasons it should, then he is just using it as an excuse for his and Brad's behaviour.

Either way, I'm not sure the right outcome or message has been sent.

I probably agree with the last bit, but I don't agree with the rest of it.

There's not much value in making this a bigger issue than it is.

There's a strong chance that no one really knows what Rockliff said. I can think of at least three seperate cases in Australian sport where what was heard was different to what was said (or so it was claimed): Andrew Symonds, Ali Abbas and an incident where an aboriginal AFL player was called either a dumb or dark c-word depending on who you talk to (sorry, can't remember the players involved) These things often end badly, with everyone confused and no one satisfied, and even worse messages get sent.

It's not necessarily an either/or situation like you've said.

 

[Crawb]

Our former, and now retired, Captain once got reported on a very regular basis due to some undisciplined activities on the field, then spent the vast majority of his career incident free. Couldn't doubt his passion and enthusiasm for the club from when he was a kid - he just needed to learn the lessons of youth and mature into a senior player and mentor. Once he did, the players followed him into battle like disciples, hanging off every word and action.

I personally think that Tom is learning those sorts of lessons as we speak. A year or so away from the necessary maturity to lead the club into the future, as a more 'compact' version of JB perhaps.

Let's not forget that Ricky Ponting got in a punch up at the Bourbon and Beefsteak as a youngster. Maturity takes time.

Ironically on Twitter Rocky just said he donated $1,050 dollars to the Ponting Foundation for those who were asking. Even more ironically Ponting is also a North fan

 

[Skoob]

I probably agree with the last bit, but I don't agree with the rest of it.
There's not much value in making this a bigger issue than it is.

There's a strong chance that no one really knows what Rockliff said. I can think of at least three seperate cases in Australian sport where what was heard was different to what was said (or so it was claimed): Andrew Symonds, Ali Abbas and an incident where an aboriginal AFL player was called either a dumb or dark c-word depending on who you talk to (sorry, can't remember the players involved) These things often end badly, with everyone confused and no one satisfied, and even worse messages get sent.

It's not necessarily an either/or situation like you've said.

Isn't there? Like racism? Should it just be ignored in the hope it goes away? I am certainly no PC or gay rights campaigner (and by campaigner, I actually mean campaigner this time), but I do believe that issues should be addressed and dealt with. I think it should be made aware, what is acceptable and what isn't. Racially vilify a player and you will be removed and banned from a stadium. Why not make a statement about homophobic attitudes and language? Both a similarly discriminated against and both are victim to hateful language.
I understand the stigma of labeling for misquoted or misunderstood comments, and I don't expect that an exact transcript need be provided, but an admission that it was a homophobic comment or denial, should be made and an explanation or reassurance be given that it was not meant and it indeed is regretful and not okay. For now, all I've seen/heard is that an "inappropriate comment " was made. So the issue gets largely ignored.

The biggest problem I have with this is that like politicians, a lot of lip service is given by the likes of the AFL "taking a stand against homophobia" but lack in actual action. Just to be able to say "Look, we're doing the right thing" but in reality, doing nothing.

 

[James North]

Hi Tom, I could do with a spare grand.

I'm really bummed he didn't give it to "The Human Fund".

Money for people.

 

[PTizzle]

I agree to an extent with that Skoob - you'd hope the likes of Rocky would learn a lesson after something like this.

It's difficult as I do legitimately think people say things like that, rightly or wrongly, in the heat of battle more than racial slurs (which are never on). I don't really know anyone who's said what Rocky did and meant it as a homophobic thing. I do hope that with time it's just something that's erased from the vocabulary.

I don't mind a bit of sledging but it does seem to crop up more in cricket, I don't remember too much of it when I played footy (granted I was pretty young for the latter).

 

[Big Sauce 21]

He needs to settle. Very aggressive this year, Conceded alot of frees in there as well.

Not that I want him to cool down on tempo just don't go over the top.

 

[Skoob]

I agree to an extent with that Skoob - you'd hope the likes of Rocky would learn a lesson after something like this.

It's difficult as I do legitimately think people say things like that, rightly or wrongly, in the heat of battle more than racial slurs (which are never on). I don't really know anyone who's said what Rocky did and meant it as a homophobic thing. I do hope that with time it's just something that's erased from the vocabulary.

I don't mind a bit of sledging but it does seem to crop up more in cricket, I don't remember too much of it when I played footy (granted I was pretty young for the latter).

I understand context, and maybe I haven't explained myself as well as I could. My beef is the hypocracy of the situation with the AFL and Harvey, possibly more than with Rockliff. They are the ones making the claim of offence, yet not so upset as to punish it or make a statement.

 

[James North]

I understand context, and maybe I haven't explained myself as well as I could. My beef is the hypocracy of the situation with the AFL and Harvey, possibly more than with Rockliff. They are the ones making the claim of offence, yet not so upset as to punish it or make a statement.

Right so ... you are either upset by something ... or you aren't.

Why leak info to get some media when you could make a legitimate complaint through the AFL itself if the statement or act was truly offensive to you?

 

[3KZ is Football]

I agree but the f----tt word would probably get used in most work places so in the heat of the moment you can't be too harsh on someone who uses it.

I'd lose my job if I used it to describe a colleague in my workplace and that colleague reported it. People should not forget that the AFL playing field is a workplace and should be treated as such in relation to matters such as the one that is alleged to have happened.

 

[James North]

I think most of us would agree that using any word vilifying a group of people because of race, religion, gender or orientation is inappropriate. My comrade 3KZ is Football is dead right.... it is unprofessional.

My question is - what was in fact said?

 

[Skoob]

Right so ... you are either upset by something ... or you aren't.

Why leak info to get some media when you could make a legitimate complaint through the AFL itself if the statement or act was truly offensive to you?

Pretty much, in this instance.
Just some pretty weak stances being taken, and gestures made.

 

[POBT]

A bit of a weird outcome, to be honest.

Is "inappropriate" code for a homophobic slur?

Or did Rockliff just act like a dickhead?

If the former, I'm not happy with the outcome.

If the latter, I can't work out why he felt the need to punish himself.

As I said...weird.

 

[Ironmonger]

Isn't there? Like racism? Should it just be ignored in the hope it goes away? I am certainly no PC or gay rights campaigner (and by campaigner, I actually mean campaigner this time), but I do believe that issues should be addressed and dealt with. I think it should be made aware, what is acceptable and what isn't. Racially vilify a player and you will be removed and banned from a stadium. Why not make a statement about homophobic attitudes and language? Both a similarly discriminated against and both are victim to hateful language.
I understand the stigma of labeling for misquoted or misunderstood comments, and I don't expect that an exact transcript need be provided, but an admission that it was a homophobic comment or denial, should be made and an explanation or reassurance be given that it was not meant and it indeed is regretful and not okay. For now, all I've seen/heard is that an "inappropriate comment " was made. So the issue gets largely ignored.

The biggest problem I have with this is that like politicians, a lot of lip service is given by the likes of the AFL "taking a stand against homophobia" but lack in actual action. Just to be able to say "Look, we're doing the right thing" but in reality, doing nothing.

That's a very disappointing comment. Certainly not going to bother reading the rest of that essay.

 

[Skoob]

I think most of us would agree that using any word vilifying a group of people because of race, religion, gender or orientation is inappropriate. My comrade 3KZ is Football is dead right.... it is unprofessional.

My question is - what was in fact said?

Well exactly. (I think my line of posts started with an if in there somewhere).
Having said that, it has been admitted that the comment was inappropriate (as opposed to making a comment).

 

[Skoob]

That's a very disappointing comment. Certainly not going to bother reading the rest of that essay.

Well all I can glean from that, is that you see racism as an issue, but not homophobia. If that is not the case, then your post to which I was responding didn't read well to me. What was I supposed to gather from your comment that "There's not much value in making this a bigger issue than it is."?

 

[Ironmonger]

Well all I can glean from that, is that you see racism as an issue, but not homophobia. If that is not the case, then your post to which I was responding didn't read well to me. What was I supposed to gather from your comment that "There's not much value in making this a bigger issue than it is."?

What nonsense. Stop putting words in my mouth.

If you want to discuss this, try approaching it in a more respectful manner. I'm not going to answer a bunch of lazy rhetorical questions.

I actually put some effort into my post explaining circumstances where it wasn't black and white who said what and whether anything inappropriate was done, and what I get in response is a trite shot about condoning racism.

 

[POBT]

 

[chopperduck]

If all parties are happy with an apology and Rocky making a donation as a gesture of goodwill, it couldnt have been anything too bad. I think the issue has probably been more with the timing of it (being after the siren) than the content itself.

Rocky acted a bit the fool carrying on after the siren, and im sure he let him have it, rubbing his face in it a bit. Generally that is fine during the game, but it is a bit outside the spirit of the game doing it afterwards. Rocky seemed to realise his mistake pretty quickly and regretted it. If the matter is settled between the two parties, it should be done and dusted.

Everything else, homophobic slurs and what not seems much more a media beat up and witch hunt. If anything at all had legs, it would be taken further.

 

[Skoob]

What nonsense. Stop putting words in my mouth.

If you want to discuss this, try approaching it in a more respectful manner. I'm not going to answer a bunch of lazy rhetorical questions.

I actually put some effort into my post explaining circumstances where it wasn't black and white who said what and whether anything inappropriate was done, and what I get in response is a trite shot about condoning racism.

Sorry Tom, I can see how that may have read wrong.
I certainly wasn't accusing you of condoning racism at all.

I did however get the impression from your comment ("There's not much value in making this a bigger issue than it is."?) that perhaps you don't see homophobia and associated language as an important issue, that should be dealt with by the industry similarly to racism.

 

[Skoob]

If all parties are happy with an apology and Rocky making a donation as a gesture of goodwill, it couldnt have been anything too bad. I think the issue has probably been more with the timing of it (being after the siren) than the content itself.

Rocky acted a bit the fool carrying on after the siren, and im sure he let him have it, rubbing his face in it a bit. Generally that is fine during the game, but it is a bit outside the spirit of the game doing it afterwards. Rocky seemed to realise his mistake pretty quickly and regretted it. If the matter is settled between the two parties, it should be done and dusted.

Everything else, homophobic slurs and what not seems much more a media beat up and witch hunt. If anything at all had legs, it would be taken further.

And yet none of the parties have knocked it on the head.
The best way to put a stop to the speculation, rumour mongering and media beat up is for all parties to fess up and make amends, or clear the air with what was said. (Even if it is a vague representation "I swore at him" or "I had a go at his physical stature", or "I used a word that has homophobic overtones")

 

[Ironmonger]

Sorry Tom, I can see how that may have read wrong.
I certainly wasn't accusing you of condoning racism at all.

I did however get the impression from your comment ("There's not much value in making this a bigger issue than it is."?) that perhaps you don't see homophobia and associated language as an important issue, that should be dealt with by the industry similarly to racism.

The rest of that post dealt with examples where comments were alleged to be made on an Australian sporting field, they became big media and procedural circuses, only to lead to an ultimately unsatisfying end with no one really sure what was said and everyone feeling justice hadn't been done. I feel like if you'd read the whole of the post you shouldn't have been in any doubt about what I meant.

Which is part of why this is very frustrating.

 

[Ironmonger]

I wish I took the moral high ground more often I do. Something we should all aspire to.

Curious that some people think of it as an insult.

 

[James North]

I wish I took the moral high ground more often I do. Something we should all aspire to.

I want to know where that pic was taken? Beautiful sunset.

 

[Skoob]

The rest of that post dealt with examples where comments were alleged to be made on an Australian sporting field, they became big media and procedural circuses, only to lead to an ultimately unsatisfying end with no one really sure what was said and everyone feeling justice hadn't been done. I feel like if you'd read the whole of the post you shouldn't have been in any doubt about what I meant.

Which is part of why this is very frustrating.

Okay, I'm not familiar with any of the cases you mentioned, so a bit hard to get your message.
Safe to say, I probably misread your intent, and i am confident you have misunderstood mine (in response).
I'll leave it at that.