News The Hawthorn Allegations

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TW Sherrin

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A good read. Tracey Holmes is highly respected sports journalist.

And….. white man says nothing to see here.

You've posted well thought out and reasoned responses which I am sure have given perspectives some didnt know so pls don't go down the white man is bad path.
 

Cyclops

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Holmes is as biased in this topic as anybody.

I don’t understand why a “ wide ranging” AFL investigation is required …..before actually verifying the truth in the hawthorn claims. She’s implicitly calling Clarkson guilty without trial.
Racism in football is a known problem. This isn't a mysterious appearance of a problem at one club.
 

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jmac70

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**** just got real. WorkSafe investigate bullying allegations, if players have had suicidal thoughts someone is going o get hit for 6. There's no presumption of innocence, organisations have to prove they are providing a safe environment, and the fines and prison terms are eye-watering.

Meanwhile Jeff Kennet is spouting off that there's no crisis and called the player "employees", clearly indicating he's The Boss and they just work there. he's a scumbag of the lowest order.

Worksafe was brought in by Unions and Labor to save the lives and health of workers. This Liberal dip**** may be about to get a union-made legal enema.
Fair to say Hawthorn could be in some strife.
 

domus

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You love to see yourself lined up against the odds in favour of the outsider. Very Atticus Finch.

Thing is, most people agree that there needs to be a fuller understanding of the situation, so your martyrdom is wasted on that front.

I enjoy your challenge for me to find your bigoted utterances, not least because it came straight after you said that you don't give a flying f*** for my opinion.

It also amused because I made it clear that my sense of your perspective comes from what you're not saying. You're a bloke who writes a lot, who expends a load of words on the things he cares about, and the absence of any concern about Indigenous experiences tells me most of what I want to know.

And I never suggested that your views need to be authorised, or that they shouldn't be expressed. Not sure how you came to that conclusion, although I reckon that your victim mentality has quite a bit to do with it.
You see bigotry in most of what I write so I presume you don't like seeing what you perceive to be bigotry posted on these threads.

So you judge me to be a bigot based upon what I don't write? Incredible. As already stated, race/skin colour was entirely irrelevant to the issue I was addressing so why would I write about it?
Why?
 

TheGreatGrundy

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A good read. Tracey Holmes is highly respected sports journalist.

And….. white man says nothing to see here.
What about Burgoyne? He is not a white man. Or do you think that the views of anyone who has played or worked under Clarkson and positively supports him can be dismissed for one reason or another?
 

Apples

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Mate, all I’ve said is that I believe the testimony.
I’ll leave it to others to discuss the process, other than to point out that Indigenous Australians have long been excluded from such things.

Domus preaches equality but not equity.
This doesn't make any sense to me. You may suspect the testimony is true, but nobody is in a position to know except the parties involved. I also think you are being disrespectful to those sincerely expressing their opinions, because they differ to yours.
Every person with a grievance should be listened to; that doesn't mean we must believe them.
 

gouki88

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What about Burgoyne? He is not a white man. Or do you think that the views of anyone who has played or worked under Clarkson and positively supports him can be dismissed for one reason or another?
Burgoyne, the established veteran with a white partner, is not comparable to the alleged insistence on the separation of Indigenous families.
 

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jmac70

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This doesn't make any sense to me. You may suspect the testimony is true, but nobody is in a position to know except the parties involved. I also think you are being disrespectful to those sincerely expressing their opinions, because they differ to yours.
Every person with a grievance should be listened to; that doesn't mean we must believe them.
Domus has no concept of equity. As a teacher, I know you do.
 

jmac70

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Burgoyne, the established veteran with a white partner, is not comparable to the alleged insistence on the separation of Indigenous families.
Mate, the only thing that matters is the testimony of the players featured in the probe.
The experience of other players, white or black, doesn’t matter.
 

TheGreatGrundy

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Burgoyne, the established veteran with a white partner, is not comparable to the alleged insistence on the separation of Indigenous families.
I am not suggesting he is comparable to the alleged insistence on the separation of indigenous families. However, you'd expect long term Hawthorn players like Hodge, Burgoyne and Mitchell to have acquired some knowledge of the concerns of other players, as well as an opinion of the person who has coached them for several years. Mitchell has criticised Clarkson, the other two have been supportive. All three have chosen to publicly voice their opinion. Just seems wrong that the views of players are only acceptable if they appear to take a negative view of Clarkson and Fagan, and are immediately dismissed if they don't appear to support the accounts of the three anonymous players.

Why does Burgoyne having a white partner immediately work against his views having any merit? Seems a strange attitude for you to take. Do indigenous people somehow lose their right to express an opinion on indigenous matters if they choose to have a white rather than indigenous partner?
 

JB1975

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You see bigotry in most of what I write so I presume you don't like seeing what you perceive to be bigotry posted on these threads.

So you judge me to be a bigot based upon what I don't write? Incredible. As already stated, race/skin colour was entirely irrelevant to the issue I was addressing so why would I write about it?

I don't see bigotry in most of what you write, but if I'm honest then I tell you that I detect elements of bigotry in your posts.

Yes, this includes what gets said and what is left unsaid or seemingly uncared about.

Your narrowed focus on fairness is, in my view, a sorry sort of fig leaf. This attention to process doesn't disguise the fact that --in my view-- you don't care about the broader issues.

In some way, it is an attempt to supplant the more important parts of this story with a side issue, or at least to marginalise it.

But I don't get too worked up about it. First, your views are actually irrelevant. Second, your way of communicating your perspective is spectacularly unoriginal, and is plastered all over the footy media and social media.
 

Drought Break

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I am not suggesting he is comparable to the alleged insistence on the separation of indigenous families. However, you'd expect long term Hawthorn players like Hodge, Burgoyne and Mitchell to have acquired some knowledge of the concerns of other players, as well as an opinion of the person who has coached them for several years. Mitchell has criticised Clarkson, the other two have been supportive. All three have chosen to publicly voice their opinion. Just seems wrong that the views of players are only acceptable if they appear to take a negative view of Clarkson and Fagan, and are immediately dismissed if they don't appear to support the accounts of the three anonymous players.

Why does Burgoyne having a white partner immediately work against his views having any merit? Seems a strange attitude for you to take. Do indigenous people somehow lose their right to express an opinion on indigenous matters if they choose to have a white rather than indigenous partner?
A very strange argument that he put forward

Adam Goodes and Eddie Betts both have white wives. Doesn’t stop them from being leaders in the aboriginal community
 

TheGreatGrundy

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Mate, the only thing that matters is the testimony of the players featured in the probe.
The experience of other players, white or black, doesn’t matter.
What about people who were at the club during the time that the racist behaviour was alleged to have occurred? Don't you think it likely that the players would have spoken to other members of the playing group about the outrageous demands being made of them by Clarkson? I'd have thought that there would have been people at the club who could corroborate the accounts of the three players.

If I was one of the three indigenous players who had been asked to break up a relationship, terminate a pregnancy, had a partner who miscarried due to the stress under which she had been placed or had my sim card destroyed, I would be complaining to anyone in my vicinity who would listen. At some stage, surely other players are going to lend direct support to the claims of the accusers? Surely the experience of those players is important to any ongoing investigation?
 

TheGreatGrundy

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A good read. Tracey Holmes is highly respected sports journalist.

And….. white man says nothing to see here.
Can't say that she earned my respect with the platform her interview provided to Lumumba to legitimise his claims of racism against the CFC.

 
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jmac70

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What about people who were at the club during the time that the racist behaviour was alleged to have occurred? Don't you think it likely that the players would have spoken to other members of the playing group about the outrageous demands being made of them by Clarkson? I'd have thought that there would have been people at the club who could corroborate the accounts of the three players.

If I was one of the three indigenous players who had been asked to break up a relationship, terminate a pregnancy, had a partner who miscarried due to the stress under which she had been placed or had my sim card destroyed, I would be complaining to anyone in my vicinity who would listen. At some stage, surely other players are going to lend direct support to the claims of the accusers? Surely the experience of those players is important to any ongoing investigation?
This is why the investigation is destined to fail. Western ideals will be the lens through which the allegations are viewed.
 

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