Society/Culture The Humanities: A cesspool of academic fraud

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Gough

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and this attitude is why australia sucks at investing in science today.

back in the day, companies like 3M and IBM required their tech heads to spend a certain amount of time each month on blue sky projects. Nothing with a specific commercial aim, but just pure science which they funded and which was solely inspired by the researcher.

the reason why was not because of altruism, it was because often these projects would go into unforeseen directions which would have commercial benefits.

for us, the biggest moment of stupidity we had was when we decided to defund the CSIRO from nearly all pure science research, and have them only focus on making a better type of yarn. And we wonder why 300-600 australian scientists are flocking to china (which is an absolute disgrace, because those patents they create are our future, and we are basically giving them away - as we did with the likes of solar technology to the USA)
The CSIRO's scientific narrative had a habit of making the Liberal Party and it's members look very very stupid, it's better to defund than let facts get in the way of their feelings.
 

raskolnikov

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Check this one out. This is an ACTUAL thesis.:tearsofjoy:

This dance performance was created in conjunction with my thesis work, "Dancing My Adoptive Identity: An Autoethnographic Analysis of Adoption Narratives and Performance of Identity."


You're being a little bit disingenuous here. Firstly, it is a Master's thesis, not a PhD thesis. A big difference. Secondly, the dance part was only done in conjunction with the thesis. It is not the actual thesis. I looked the thesis up on Google Scholar and it is a 110 page dissertation on individual experiences of being adopted. Not totally without merit or value IMO. The dissertation is actually very well-written and scholarly.
 

Snake_Baker

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You're being a little bit disingenuous here. Firstly, it is a Master's thesis, not a PhD thesis. A big difference.
:D

It's a debacle that it even exists in tertiary education.

The "difference" isn't as big as you claim either.

Secondly, the dance part was only done in conjunction with the thesis. It is not the actual thesis. I looked the thesis up on Google Scholar and it is a 110 page dissertation on individual experiences of being adopted. Not totally without merit or value IMO. The dissertation is actually very well-written and scholarly.
You embarrass yourself by attempting to justify this self indulgent w@nkage.
 

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Gough

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:D

It's a debacle that it even exists in tertiary education.

The "difference" isn't as big as you claim either.



You embarrass yourself by attempting to justify this self indulgent w@nkage.
Just for the record perhaps you could detail your academic achievements. I'm assuming you're well versed in tertiary humanities to be so sure of Jordan Peterson's opinion.
 

Snake_Baker

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I just assumed that a man with such strong opinions about the humanities in universities might have actually studied them. Sorry.
You conduct yourself like a 12 year old. I can see how the Hawthorn board became a toilet.

Do you have any actual rebuttals related to the theme of the thread? Anything that claims the contemporary humanities are predominately a worthy cause? Anything?
 

raskolnikov

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:D

It's a debacle that it even exists in tertiary education.

The "difference" isn't as big as you claim either.



You embarrass yourself by attempting to justify this self indulgent w@nkage.
You embarrass yourself by thinking that a Masters degree requires anywhere near the intellectual depth and research that a PhD requires. I have a Masters and am currently working on a PhD. They're completely different in complexity. A Master's degree is really to demonstrate that you have the necessary skills to undertake a PhD.
 

Gough

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You conduct yourself like a 12 year old. I can see how the Hawthorn board became a toilet.

Do you have any actual rebuttals related to the theme of the thread? Anything that claims the contemporary humanities are predominately a worthy cause? Anything?
I don't have a Jordan Peterson video to pass off as my own opinion if that's what you're looking for.
 

HairyO

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I have a question. How are you going to know what will be valuable in the future?

There hasn't been a time in history in which cutting edge physics has paid the bills without grants.
The usual way is a business case.

Im guessing cutting edge physics has a better chance than interpretive dance. What do you think ?
 

Snake_Baker

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FFS, "cutting edge physics" is the architecture of the modern material world.

raskolnikov, you are actually undertaking a worthy intellectual pursuit. Why would you even associate yourself with this toilet?

You've been playing the man this whole thread.
No mate, I have predominately focused on the concept and have only played the man when engaged in that manner.

You're better than this.
 

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raskolnikov

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raskolnikov, you are actually undertaking a worthy intellectual pursuit. Why would you even associate yourself with this toilet?
I don't totally disagree with your stance, though I do have issues with the way you express your opinions at times.

However the thesis you posted I don't see necessarily see as irrelevant, especially for a Master's level. Sure the dance to you and me may be a bit cringey but the written component was quite good, showing the necessary level of research and academic writing required at that level. And that's what a Master's degree is about. Demonstrating that you have the skills for higher research. Every PhD candidate needs a supervisor who sees the value and worth in a research proposal. Would she find a supervisor for that topic at PhD level. Who knows? But I don't have an issue with it at Master's level. Having had the experience of an adopted brother who had issues around the stigma of being adopted, despite being in a loving home, I can see the value in researching and writing about adoptive experiences.
 

Ned_Flanders

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I don't totally disagree with your stance, though I do have issues with the way you express your opinions at times.

However the thesis you posted I don't see necessarily see as irrelevant, especially for a Master's level. Sure the dance to you and me may be a bit cringey but the written component was quite good, showing the necessary level of research and academic writing required at that level. And that's what a Master's degree is about. Demonstrating that you have the skills for higher research. Every PhD candidate needs a supervisor who sees the value and worth in a research proposal. Would she find a supervisor for that topic at PhD level. Who knows? But I don't have an issue with it at Master's level. Having had the experience of an adopted brother who had issues around the stigma of being adopted, despite being in a loving home, I can see the value in researching and writing about adoptive experiences.
FWIW Snake_Baker just on the principle of the issue of understanding consequences of decisions so as to better support kids in state care, foster care, and adoption is something that does have genuine benefit. its an area i honestly hand up have no idea of the solutions, but too often in the past we have looked at it mostly from the state's perspective (and not the kids). its a similar issue in disability services (for those under the care of a guardian).
 

Snake_Baker

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FWIW Snake_Baker just on the principle of the issue of understanding consequences of decisions so as to better support kids in state care, foster care, and adoption is something that does have genuine benefit. its an area i honestly hand up have no idea of the solutions, but too often in the past we have looked at it mostly from the state's perspective (and not the kids). its a similar issue in disability services (for those under the care of a guardian).
Agree, but this is a borderline medical issue.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Agree, but this is a borderline medical issue.
not quite

part of the issue is we have handled these kids as something needing treatment. kids need care = give them a carer

what we havent really understood is the impact this has upon the kid from how they bond with a family unit (assuming they have one), inability to establish deep social ties (because they keep being geographically moved), and of course a sense that they are of value and matter.

the last is important because if you grow up thinking of yourself as nothing more than a case to be managed, with noone in your corner, no sh*t you're more likely to grow up not giving two fu**s about the consequences of your actions on others.
 

FireKrakouer

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FWIW Snake_Baker just on the principle of the issue of understanding consequences of decisions so as to better support kids in state care, foster care, and adoption is something that does have genuine benefit. its an area i honestly hand up have no idea of the solutions, but too often in the past we have looked at it mostly from the state's perspective (and not the kids). its a similar issue in disability services (for those under the care of a guardian).
She did her cause a disservice with the interpretive dance wãnkery then. It's like serving someone a lovely steak, but with a pile of excrement on the plate next to it m8.
 

Ned_Flanders

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She did her cause a disservice with the interpretive dance wãnkery then. It's like serving someone a lovely steak, but with a pile of excrement on the plate next to it m8.
and her paper will be judged accordingly

the whole point of papers is so they can be reviewed and discussed. saying "only ABC can be studied" just creates mythology around the stuff thats banned

best way to kill talk about astrology is to kill the arguments of those who attempt to scientifically justify it, not to ban its research
 

Ned_Flanders

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Agree, but again, it hardly fits the criteria here.
i know, but when people start saying what should and should not be studied, i get nervous

some of these papers study micro elements that have lessons for bigger policies. for example, studying labour laws in an island nations economy. on the surface its "who gives a fu** about that", but often these micro markets allow you to examine the effects of an economic policy decision without the noise of other factors (which is why Geelong, the Illawarra, and Adelaide are often used for economics research)

then you have politics. a lot of research has shown supply side economics is sh*te. yet right wingers keep pushing it out there. do we really want to set precedents where poli's tell researchers what they can and cannot research? I know they have the thumb on the scale with funding to some degree, but we dont need to make the situation worse.
 

Gough

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One real problem with education is that modern conservatism has somehow decided that education is only useful if it can be monetised.

We need more people capable of critical thinking in society, not less.
The irony of a group of ministers largely trained in the humanities deciding to make it more difficult for young people to study them now is sickening.
 

Snake_Baker

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i know, but when people start saying what should and should not be studied, i get nervous

some of these papers study micro elements that have lessons for bigger policies. for example, studying labour laws in an island nations economy. on the surface its "who gives a fu** about that", but often these micro markets allow you to examine the effects of an economic policy decision without the noise of other factors (which is why Geelong, the Illawarra, and Adelaide are often used for economics research)

then you have politics. a lot of research has shown supply side economics is sh*te. yet right wingers keep pushing it out there. do we really want to set precedents where poli's tell researchers what they can and cannot research? I know they have the thumb on the scale with funding to some degree, but we dont need to make the situation worse.
There's far too many self indulgent useless degrees that expect to get a career handed on a platter to them.

Most of sociology, gender & race studies for starters. Then this lot get absorbed in to the bureaucratic system due to having no real purpose in their actual fields, and start churning out policy in line with their narrow image of the world.

When I was coming through my masters I actually had to deal with arts degree types that had crept in to the administration of non related fields, and started instituting complete unrelated bullshit in to STEM course requirements, basically just to ensure jobs for them and their kind. I was actually told to "dumb down" scientific presentations so the "layperson" (i.e. them) could understand them. It really is a wide spread academic rort.

Morrison has at least begun to address this racket, by financially pressuring these useless degree's/master's/PhD's.

I sat in on one course with what are known as an "integrated" PhD students, which is basically a self indulgent PhD with training wheels, and I could not believe some of the ridiculous crap that was getting funded by the tax payer.
 
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Snake_Baker

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One real problem with education is that modern conservatism has somehow decided that education is only useful if it can be monetised.

We need more people capable of critical thinking in society, not less.
I am 100% with you here, but do you REALLY think this is what is going on Mofra?

It's actually the complete opposite, a literal echo chamber.
 

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