Society/Culture The Humanities: A cesspool of academic fraud

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Chief

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the requirement for PhD's to be novel research leads to increasingly niche and bizarre publications.
A PHD thesis isn’t the culmination of someone’s career. It’s the start, if they continue on in their field. It’s been called a training process by many of the people I know. Prove you can use the tools to produce something.
 

Ned_Flanders

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There's far too many self indulgent useless degrees that expect to get a career handed on a platter to them.

Most of sociology, gender & race studies for starters. Then this lot get absorbed in to the bureaucratic system due to having no real purpose in their actual fields, and start churning out policy in line with their narrow image of the world.

When I was coming through my masters I actually had to deal with arts degree types that had crept in to the administration of non related fields, and started instituting complete unrelated bullshit in to STEM course requirements, basically just to ensure jobs for them and their kind. I was actually told to "dumb down" scientific presentations so the "layperson" (i.e. them) could understand them. It really is a wide spread academic rort.

Morrison has at least begun to address this racket, by financially pressuring these useless degree's/master's/PhD's.

I sat in on one course with what are known as an "integrated" PhD students, which is basically a self indulgent PhD with training wheels, and I could not believe some of the ridiculous crap that was getting funded by the tax payer.
you have some valid complaints, but they are not related to the issue you are worried about

- falling standards of PhD studies
this is 100% on uni's. and btw it has nothing to do with being woke, it has everything to do with the fact that uni's make more per student on these degrees than they do a bach. its in their financial interests to have as many masters and phd students in non-lab fields (anything requiring a lab costs money, humanities are therefore very cheap degrees to sell).

- unqualified people getting jobs
this is 100% on employers. fwiw i think you're wrong though. in my fields, noone gives two shits about academic qualifications. 20 years ago, yeah it mattered. now, because everyone has a bloody degree, noone cares.

the only relevance is it can show you have the ability of continue learning/research even though you're not in your 20's



banning or severely limiting access to phd's in humanities wont change those issues. uni's will repackage the degrees in another way. employers dont give a sh*t and will continue to not give a sh*t
 

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FireKrakouer

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and her paper will be judged accordingly

the whole point of papers is so they can be reviewed and discussed. saying "only ABC can be studied" just creates mythology around the stuff thats banned

best way to kill talk about astrology is to kill the arguments of those who attempt to scientifically justify it, not to ban its research
Isn't the point of this thread that these academics aren't even having their papers cited by their closest peers? Hence they have been judged accordingly as low value (not referring to the interpretive dance lady, but to humanities research broadly).

The hoax dog park "queer behaviour" was obvious nonsense. I'd support similar research if it was to somehow improve animal welfare, but it was a "7 reasons why I'm a victim - number 6 will shock you!" type paper, and it got published.
 

raskolnikov

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Most high school teachers do a degree in their particular discipline, then a graduate diploma in Education. The teaching of History, Geography, Literature, Music and Languages is going to become obsolete under Morrison's plan. People aren't going to want to pay double to do a degree in these.
 

Snake_Baker

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Most high school teachers do a degree in their particular discipline, then a graduate diploma in Education. The teaching of History, Geography, Literature and Languages is going to become obsolete under Morrison's plan. People aren't going to want to pay double to do a degree in these.

Geography?

Literature gets pressed in to English units.
 

Snake_Baker

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Geography is considered Humanities. And English is also Humanities.

Geography is one of the earth sciences, and I don't care If it's been hijacked by the humanities in the contemporary academic setting. I'll ignore it.

English is a base line communication requirement for primary and secondary education, and a basic introduction to literature is a part of its conceptual backbone.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Isn't the point of this thread that these academics aren't even having their papers cited by their closest peers? Hence they have been judged accordingly as low value (not referring to the interpretive dance lady, but to humanities research broadly).

The hoax dog park "queer behaviour" was obvious nonsense. I'd support similar research if it was to somehow improve animal welfare, but it was a "7 reasons why I'm a victim - number 6 will shock you!" type paper, and it got published.
and?

do you know what it means by "it got published"?

it just means some uni peep agreed than another uni peep could do their paper on the subject

THATS IT

publishing a paper doesnt give it authority, status, or confirmation that its findings have been accepted

do you know the worst thing you can do to these BS papers? make them an issue or ban them from study. let them stay in academic obscurity



also you saying "i will support xxxx research" is exactly what we should not be doing. I dont believe tariffs work. the worst thing i could do however is defund any uni that supports an academic paper researching tariffs as an effective economic tool. Just because i believe something and TODAY a lot of people agree with me doesnt mean study should cease on alternates.

here's one for you. im happy for people to research eugenics. let them present a paper on how they prove white people are genetically superior to all other races. you know why im cool with that? because my views should and must be able to withstand scrutiny and review. even if the opposing view is ignorant racist sh*t. actually especially then




where i suspect your concern is, is govt funding of these papers. personally im happy for this to be done at uni level (with govt coin), because while the uni's may fu** this up with some stupid stuff from time to time, they will do an infinite better job than handing it over to a public servant or a politician. personally i think we need to take away the profit motive on uni's green lighting sh*t just to get fees in, and that will wash a lot of these away (because the cost then becomes reputational).
 

raskolnikov

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Geography is one of the earth sciences, and I don't care If it's been hijacked by the humanities in the contemporary academic setting. I'll ignore it.
It doesn't matter what you consider it. At most universities it comes under the Arts department and at school is taught under HASS (Humanities and Social Sciences)
 

Ned_Flanders

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Most high school teachers do a degree in their particular discipline, then a graduate diploma in Education. The teaching of History, Geography, Literature, Music and Languages is going to become obsolete under Morrison's plan. People aren't going to want to pay double to do a degree in these.
as a massive fan of history, this is truly sad. a lot of the issues of today (managing urban populations, aging populations, migration movements, declining and emerging empires) has all happened before, and better understanding the "why" helps us better learn for today.

want arguments against mono culture ag and industry - ancient egypt

why walls wont stop economic migration - ancient china and rome

the price a culture pays when it stops investing in innovation - japan, china, france, and on and on
 

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FireKrakouer

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Morrison is in bed with Brian Houston and Hillsong. I'm not sure he's the best one to decide on the merit of a particular study.
He's made some good strides in terms of closing parasitic loopholes, but I will say he should've started with the politicians!
and?

do you know what it means by "it got published"?

it just means some uni peep agreed than another uni peep could do their paper on the subject

THATS IT

publishing a paper doesnt give it authority, status, or confirmation that its findings have been accepted

do you know the worst thing you can do to these BS papers? make them an issue or ban them from study. let them stay in academic obscurity



also you saying "i will support xxxx research" is exactly what we should not be doing. I dont believe tariffs work. the worst thing i could do however is defund any uni that supports an academic paper researching tariffs as an effective economic tool. Just because i believe something and TODAY a lot of people agree with me doesnt mean study should cease on alternates.

here's one for you. im happy for people to research eugenics. let them present a paper on how they prove white people are genetically superior to all other races. you know why im cool with that? because my views should and must be able to withstand scrutiny and review. even if the opposing view is ignorant racist sh*t. actually especially then




where i suspect your concern is, is govt funding of these papers. personally im happy for this to be done at uni level (with govt coin), because while the uni's may fu** this up with some stupid stuff from time to time, they will do an infinite better job than handing it over to a public servant or a politician. personally i think we need to take away the profit motive on uni's green lighting sh*t just to get fees in, and that will wash a lot of these away (because the cost then becomes reputational).
If a paper is published in an academic journal, isn't that taking up a relatively scarce resource? If you want more funding for education, don't you want it to be targeted to actually educating people, preferably with skills that will improve the world? Note that I said "world", I am all for studying climate science, provided that it is legitimate research following the scientific method.
 

raskolnikov

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English is a base line communication requirement for primary and secondary education, and a basic introduction to literature is a part of its conceptual backbone.
Not really sure what you're trying to say here. That anyone with an Education degree should be able to teach English? English (which includes Literature) teachers need an Arts degree.
 

Ned_Flanders

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He's made some good strides in terms of closing parasitic loopholes, but I will say he should've started with the politicians!

If a paper is published in an academic journal, isn't that taking up a relatively scarce resource? If you want more funding for education, don't you want it to be targeted to actually educating people, preferably with skills that will improve the world? Note that I said "world", I am all for studying climate science, provided that it is legitimate research following the scientific method.
Again, it's an academic journal

Journals publish for differing reasons (sometimes just to create debate), and again, I wouldn't want govt to police what a journal can and cannot publish
 

Snake_Baker

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It doesn't matter what you consider it. At most universities it comes under the Arts department and at school is taught under HASS (Humanities and Social Sciences)
Yes, it does.

If geography has been politically shoehorned in to the humanities then it's relevant to the premise of my thread.

ICGAF about what some Dean with a degree in dramatic arts thinks about the departmental allocation of geography, and I dismiss your claim outright.
 

Engimal v3

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I don't understand the contempt towards arts and humanities. My dad has the same view, and he finished school in year 9. That's always lead me to believe that this view comes from ignorance more than anything.

I took several arts/humanities of these subjects as electives while I was studying a STEM degree in computing, and I found that I was able to transfer a lot of these knowledge when having to consider the ethical, societal, or legal impacts of the applications or systems I was designing implementing. I felt it really gave me an edge over the typical IT types when showcasing, or explaining certain choices in my end products.
 

Snake_Baker

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I don't understand the contempt towards arts and humanities. My dad has the same view, and he finished school in year 9. That's always lead me to believe that this view comes from ignorance more than anything.

I took several arts/humanities of these subjects as electives while I was studying a STEM degree in computing, and I found that I was able to transfer a lot of these knowledge when having to consider the ethical, societal, or legal impacts of the applications or systems I was designing implementing.
In that case, you must have had a very underdeveloped sense of conceptual application.

I felt it really gave me an edge over the typical IT types when showcasing, or explaining certain choices in my end products.
This reads as though your training assisted in appeasing those who trained you, as if they adequately represent the general population. My experience is that they don't.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Nor would I, but I'm happy for that gov to decide who it gives loans/grants to. How many grievance study grads ever pay back their student loans? Maybe 1 or 2 percent, who do so by working at Maccas.
Now you're reading sh*t on other forums and misunderstanding it.

In Australia we don't have the privatised student loan system. We have HECS. And repayment isn't an issue, as it's deduced from your income automatically.

Grants are another issue entirely. You don't repay a grant. You do however have to apply for it and get accepted. This acceptance is dictated on your research proposal, not who you are or who you vote for. I've never done it, but heard the process is a pain in the arse (don't know if they were getting a public one or private)
 

Engimal v3

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In that case, you must have had a very underdeveloped sense of conceptual application.



This reads as though your training assisted in appeasing those who trained you, as if they adequately represent the general population. My experience is that they don't.
Yep Snake, you're a genius and the rest of us are suckers
 

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