Mega Thread The hunt for a new senior coach

Who will be coaching Port Adelaide in 2013? (3rd Poll)


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Schulzenfest

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Senior assistants are there to ease new coaches into the role.

If we get Burns or Cameron or whoever, we need a senior assistant. If we get Rodney Eade, we certainly don't. Especially considering that Eade has been coaching for about a decade longer than Ratten. Making Ratten the 'senior assistant' to Eade doesn't make any sense.
 

TheFVK

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Because its unclear to me who is the current Senior Assistant at Port. And I think we need one.
Why? Is there any real, tangible evidence to suggest that a club with a senior assistant coach is better than a club without?

Just seems like a bit of a fad at the moment, akin to the "Leading Teams" leadership groups which came and went..
 

Monkey King

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He took over a young team with 5 top 3 draft picks and Chris Judd ...
No. The team Ratten took over had no Judd and 2 x No.1 draft picks, one of whom was 18yo and not the best player in his draft anyway, and 1 x No.2 pick - Andrew Walker who was chronically injured up until last season. Still, Ratts had an instant impact and built from there. The list also had a range of plodders as shit as any team and to top it off, he lost one the league's best forwards from the list without instant compensation and still managed to restructure the team and get them into finals. He deserves some credit, although I understand most punters don't recognise what he achieved at Carlton.

and took them to the dizzying heights of 5th before heading right back down the ladder again. Anyone could've done that. Rodney Eade has achieved better results with far less advantages than what Ratten had.
Geez I hope this is tongue in cheek mate. Not a lot a quality assessment in this throw away line. Suffice to say I don't agree with the conclusion that anyone could have done it. Sounds more like a Primary School taunt.

If we go for an unproven coach, he's probably the best 'senior assistant' option out there, since we won't be able to get anyone from another club without giving them a promotion so the currently unemployed Ratten is our best bet. For our actual coach though? Shouldn't even be considered.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I personally think he'd offer any club more than Rodney Eade in the long run, but for Port right now, Ratten is not the guy you need. I've already put forth my reasons for thinking this and also agree with a few of the more reasoned points others have made.

Why would Eade need a senior assistant?
Why did Mick Malthouse need a senior assistant (Mark Neeld)? The answer ... a number of clubs have senior assistants these days. It doesn't mean he's senior to the coach, but that he is senior among the assistants.

Some examples ...
Mark Harvey - Brisbane
Alan Richardson - Carlton
Leon Cameron - Hawthorn
 

Schulzenfest

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No. The team Ratten took over had no Judd and 2 x No.1 draft picks, one of whom was 18yo and not the best player in his draft anyway, and 1 x No.2 pick - Andrew Walker who was chronically injured up until last season.
I worded it poorly, but that was my point. Carlton didn't improve because of Ratten's coaching, they improved because of entirely predictable natural improvement from the additions of some of the most highly rated youngsters and (at the time) the best player in the competition.

Monkey King said:
I'm not disagreeing with you. I personally think he'd offer any club more than Rodney Eade in the long run
Disagree. Like I said, Eade has achieved much better results than Ratten in the past with less talented lists and far less off-field advantages. Eade has proven in the past that he can do what we need a coach to do (take an under-resourced club with a poor list from the bottom of the ladder to near the top). Ratten has never proven that.

Monkey King said:
Why did Mick Malthouse need a senior assistant (Mark Neeld)?
Was Neeld a senior assistant? Didn't know that.
 

Monkey King

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Why? Is there any real, tangible evidence to suggest that a club with a senior assistant coach is better than a club without?

Just seems like a bit of a fad at the moment, akin to the "Leading Teams" leadership groups which came and went..
Only one of the teams in the top 4 have a senior assistant, but granted that team happens to be the premiership favourite. Interesting that Mark Neeld was the senior assistant at Collingwood but didn't implement the same structures when taking over at Melbourne.
 

findonite

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Why? Is there any real, tangible evidence to suggest that a club with a senior assistant coach is better than a club without?

Just seems like a bit of a fad at the moment, akin to the "Leading Teams" leadership groups which came and went..
A fad maybe, but it's not to be dismissed out of hand. Modern coaching is taxing on head coaches (ask Matty) and a senior assistant helps to ease the commitments, be they media, analysis, leadership etc. I would like Port to have one and I'm not sure we currently have a high calibre option. Eade may be able to mentor a Rehn or Hocking, but I'd suggest he'll have his hands full.
 

Monkey King

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I worded it poorly, but that was my point. Carlton didn't improve because of Ratten's coaching, they improved because of entirely predictable natural improvement from the additions of some of the most highly rated youngsters and (at the time) the best player in the competition.
There were three highly rated youngsters and a stack of questionable talent, a lot of which was moved on after Ratten took over as coach. We lost one of those three youngsters for Judd and gained another through the that draft. And that's pretty much it. The rest was Ratten himself and the way he restructured after losing Fev was among the most impressive aspects of his coaching. Ratts may have had a few choice building blocks, but he built the Carlton team, he did not inherit it. Half the team wasn't even on the list when Ratten took over. It's an obvious fallacy, but not so obvious to some it seems.

As for how this compares to Port, you blokes have Boak who is comparable to the Murphy Ratten got; Hartlett to Gibbs; Butcher, who compares to JK, you've got Wingard extra and Pittard deserves a mention we well. You also have another impending high draft pick on it's way and perhaps, although not likely, a priority pick too. Matches up a whole lot better than you think it does. But you also have senior guys like Carlisle and Chaplin down back, which the Blues would have killed for.

Look, to me this shows having guys on your list like this doesn't automatically translate into anything. You are just undervaluing what Ratten brought to the mix.

Was Neeld a senior assistant? Didn't know that.
Yes. It's just a structure thing. Not necessarily a reflection of an inexperienced senior coach.

In this vein, Ratten would probably make a good senior assistant.
 

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*PAF

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These all played in 2007
Scotland, Heath was there in 2007
Waite, Jarrad was
Thornton, Bret was
Carrazzo, Andrew was
Simpson, Kade was
Russell, Jordan was
Betts, Eddie was
Hampson, Shaun was
Bower, Paul was
Murphy, Marc was
Walker Gibbs, Bryce was

That is 12, more than half a team. Add your tankselections plus Judd from the 2008 draft and that is even more
Now go away.
 

Phhht

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There were three highly rated youngsters and a stack of questionable talent, a lot of which was moved on after Ratten took over as coach. We lost one of those three youngsters for Judd and gained another through the that draft. And that's pretty much it. The rest was Ratten himself and the way he restructured after losing Fev was among the most impressive aspects of his coaching. Ratts may have had a few choice building blocks, but he built the Carlton team, he did not inherit it. Half the team wasn't even on the list when Ratten took over. It's an obvious fallacy, but not so obvious to some it seems.

......
Restructured what? Built what? Having a mosquito fleet forward line that is proven to fail in finals? Turn a top 10 draft pick from a forward to a defender? Playing a no.1 draft pick ruck as a CHF, or one of the other rucks as your go to forward? Build an awesome midfield on the back of the best player in the league and a gazillion early draft picks? A strong culture by continuing to accept Waite's undiscplined play, pander to Fev for how many years? Give up the most promising CHF you have had for years for Judd, really. Wouldnt it have been better to keep Kennedy and give up Kreuzer? He already had Hampson and Jacobs on his list, did he really need Kreuzer over Kennedy? Why trade in Warnock?

I am still waiting for anyone to provide what strengths Ratten has as a coach other than he has been at Carltank for 20 odd years and appears to be a good bloke. Is he a tactical genius? nup, doesnt look it too me? Does he have a gameplan that is suited to finals football - fail. Does he have the reputation as a teacher of men? havent heard anything like that.

I'll give you some very minor credit cause you are at least trying to hoodwink us into believing he 'developed' some of the younger guys.

Ratten offers us nothing that we need.
 

dropdead1

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Restructured what? Built what? Having a mosquito fleet forward line that is proven to fail in finals? Turn a top 10 draft pick from a forward to a defender? Playing a no.1 draft pick ruck as a CHF, or one of the other rucks as your go to forward? Build an awesome midfield on the back of the best player in the league and a gazillion early draft picks? A strong culture by continuing to accept Waite's undiscplined play, pander to Fev for how many years? Give up the most promising CHF you have had for years for Judd, really. Wouldnt it have been better to keep Kennedy and give up Kreuzer? He already had Hampson and Jacobs on his list, did he really need Kreuzer over Kennedy? Why trade in Warnock?

I am still waiting for anyone to provide what strengths Ratten has as a coach other than he has been at Carltank for 20 odd years and appears to be a good bloke. Is he a tactical genius? nup, doesnt look it too me? Does he have a gameplan that is suited to finals football - fail. Does he have the reputation as a teacher of men? havent heard anything like that.

I'll give you some very minor credit cause you are at least trying to hoodwink us into believing he 'developed' some of the younger guys.

Ratten offers us nothing that we need.

What does Eade bring? Couldn't patch any semblance of a forward line together for 3 years, whilst the dogs were in contention for a flag. Even when they were gifted Hall he couldn't organise a gameplan to win a flag. He literally changed up their multi-target forward line, and had the players kicking it straight to Hall - even when he was playing 4 on 1.

Has everyone forgotten the dogs in 07 too? Basically the same situation Ratts was in this year, except Eade was given the opportunity to turn them around. Ratts has age and hunger on his side - if the Port Board is willing to give him the shot, he will deliver.

The list Ratts inherited as a coach in 07 is comparable to Richmond in 08 - and he almost took them to a prelim. What's Dimma done? How about Brad Scott? Ratts is a top 5 coach.
 

dropdead1

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Why do Carlton supporters care so much that they feel the need to come here and "sell" the idea to us? You've gotten rid of him! He's gone! No matter who we pick as coach you don't need to worry about Ratten anymore! Please, stop.
There's just alot of uninformed crap being spoken about the man on here. I didn't want to see him go. I'm predicting Malthouse backs out of the job and we end up with choco - which will be hilarious. Anyway, I hope you don't end up with Eade - the game has gone past him. If you don't want Ratts, you're better off with a well-regarded assistant like Burns.
 

Monkey King

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These all played in 2007 ...

That is 12, more than half a team. Add your tankselections plus Judd from the 2008 draft and that is even more
Bower, Thornton and Russell are not what I regard as members of the Carlton team. These three combined this season for a whole 24 games (10 from a last roll of the dice with Bower) despite the list being riddled with injury. They are on the list and will be for just a few more weeks, but the ffact you've had to reach for these guys shows exactly what I'm saying.

So yeah. That's less than half the Carlton team sorry. The fact remains that like it or not, Ratten built a list as much he inherited one and he took it up the ladder. You can come up with diminutive rationalisations all you want, but they're pretty light on if you know your stuff.

If you're not up for a decent discussion based on facts then don't reply and I won't come back.
 

Phhht

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What does Eade bring? Couldn't patch any semblance of a forward line together for 3 years, whilst the dogs were in contention for a flag. Even when they were gifted Hall he couldn't organise a gameplan to win a flag. He literally changed up their multi-target forward line, and had the players kicking it straight to Hall - even when he was playing 4 on 1..
Why bring Eade into this? I am not someone banging the door down claiming Eade is the right coach for us.



Has everyone forgotten the dogs in 07 too? Basically the same situation Ratts was in this year, except Eade was given the opportunity to turn them around. .
Lol......funny I dont remember the doggies running around with the best player in the league plus a plethora of top 3 draft picks. I dont remember Eade trading away his only decent young CHF.

. Ratts has age and hunger on his side - if the Port Board is willing to give him the shot, he will deliver..
So what you are saying is that Ratten's strengths as a coach are that he is young and is hungry....wow, just wow. How about you do what NOONE else has been able to, tell us what positives he will bring to PORT. Here's a hint, youth and hunger isnt what we need.

The list Ratts inherited as a coach in 07 is comparable to Richmond in 08 - and he almost took them to a prelim. What's Dimma done? How about Brad Scott? Ratts is a top 5 coach.
Yeah he is clearly a top 5 coach thats why the team he built, developed and motivated just lost to the bottom team with NOTHING to play for whilst his team was trying to cement a finals place.....yup, top 5 for sure :rolleyes:
 

Monkey King

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Why do Carlton supporters care so much that they feel the need to come here and "sell" the idea to us?
Not the first of these comments, but I wonder where they come from. I mean, I have clearly said a couple of times now that I don't think Ratten is the man for the Port job, so you're either not reading anything beyond the fact I support Carlton, or you're just not getting what I'm saying.

There's just alot of uninformed crap being spoken about the man on here.
Ah yes. And here we get to the why on Carlton posters having their say here. For me, I came to see how Port fans felt about the idea and posted when I saw some of the lamer things being written about the guy. Fine if you don't want him as your coach, but shouldn't it be for real reasons rather than cliche. Of course, this doesn't go for all posters, some of whom have made really good points.
 

Double the Fist

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Its hard to make head nor tails of Ratten. Gets the team up for increadible wins, then falls flat on his face when facing poor opposition. Odd!

I hope you get Ratten, I reckon he would have learned a shit load from his tenure at the Blues. In a perfect world, I'd have him at WCE as an assistant in a flash. I reckon the guy is a great catch. I think he would be better than Eade. I think he has done a lot of work on being 'liked'. He was hated by most of the Blues players early on, but he managed to turn that around.



Anyway, long story short, I hope you guys get him and get your asses to the top 8 agian. I have much love for the SA teams and the people.
Good luck yall.
DTF
 

TheFVK

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Another emotional response that doesn't make any sense. Hey look, if I'm breaking your forum rules, or if your mods want to advice me be on my way, then I'll pack up and go without argument ... but this is just piss weak waffle.
Excuse us if it's not a little insulting that every Carlton supporting man and his dog thinks that we should be gracious and blessed for receiving their sloppy seconds. The definitive case of "our shit doesn't sick".

"if Port AdelaideCarlton does not appoint RattenPrimus coach for 2013, then it is proof the South AustralianVictorian club is very much the ratbag organisation we all think it is"
 

Double the Fist

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Another emotional response that doesn't make any sense. Hey look, if I'm breaking your forum rules, or if your mods want to advice me be on my way, then I'll pack up and go without argument ... but this is just piss weak waffle.
There are d!ckheads on every team forum. Even the Carlton board has Knobs:eek::eek::oops::rolleyes::D
 
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