Strategy The importance of our rucks this September

Cattery

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Let's see where we sit after this week, but a win would prove that. Right now, we do not seem to be a GF team, let alone a Premiership team. Our midfield is without doubt inferior to most of our rivals in the 8, and many outside the 8
Makes one wonder how we're five zip against the other top four sides with such a crap midfield doesn't it.

Guess it was just the conditions that got us home yesterday though, you know, all the wind and rain that we needed to beat the Swans according to your good self. ;)
 

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Vdubs

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Makes one wonder how we're five zip against the other top four sides with such a crap midfield doesn't it.

Guess it was just the conditions that got us home yesterday though, you know, all the wind and rain that we needed to beat the Swans according to your good self. ;)
9 : 1 AGAINST THE TOP 8 SIDES.
I'm starting to rate our midfield again.
Selwood, Bundy, SJ , Stokes, Corey, Duncan, Blicavs, I do worry about Vardy as a ruck, and can't rate West as a #1, but, yes, I have made better prognostications, and am more than happy to be proved WRONG. Often.
 

Turbocat

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Vardy and Bltiz can compete but the way Mumford jumped into Vardy was a concern I had pre the Swans game. Any Freo ruckman coached by Lyon WILL do the same.

West has to be considered. Vardy has potential to fill one with great hopes for the future , but he is not resilient yet. I prefer it when he is a relieve ruck , not our main guy. The injury to Simpson has really cramped our choices. But if we were really brave we would probably be considering having Vardy, Blitz and West and no Hawk. His back is making him an ordinary forward
 

MC Extra Dollop

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It's tough to make unenforced changes to a lineup that produced that result against the reigning premier, but at the moment, considering we have a hardened ruckman doing all that is asked of him in the VFL, it's got to be said that Vardy's spot is looking the most precarious.
 

Vdubs

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It's tough to make unenforced changes to a lineup that produced that result against the reigning premier, but at the moment, considering we have a hardened ruckman doing all that is asked of him in the VFL, it's got to be said that Vardy's spot is looking the most precarious.
As CS has said, it is a week to week thing.
 

Gaz_Brownlow

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It's tough to make unenforced changes to a lineup that produced that result against the reigning premier, but at the moment, considering we have a hardened ruckman doing all that is asked of him in the VFL, it's got to be said that Vardy's spot is looking the most precarious.
That's a little factually incorrect on a few fronts.

I like West, but he is far from hardened at AFL level and his results in the AFL and VFL have been modest.

It is clear that the MC see Vardy as our number 1 right now, and whilst his performances have been modest as well, he seems a little more hungry for the contest right now.

Tough for West, but right now, Vardy and Blicavs are our best combination.

Hopefully this will be vindicated in the finals. Who knows though, West could become a factor if he puts in the hard yards in the VFL.
 

Vdubs

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That's a little factually incorrect on a few fronts.

I like West, but he is far from hardened at AFL level and his results in the AFL and VFL have been modest.

It is clear that the MC see Vardy as our number 1 right now, and whilst his performances have been modest as well, he seems a little more hungry for the contest right now.

Tough for West, but right now, Vardy and Blicavs are our best combination.

Hopefully this will be vindicated in the finals. Who knows though, West could become a factor if he puts in the hard yards in the VFL.
Someone said West has a degenerative knee?
Have we seen his best?
 

MC Extra Dollop

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That's a little factually incorrect on a few fronts.
Haha ok...

I like West, but he is far from hardened at AFL level and his results in the AFL and VFL have been modest.
What would you consider 'hardened'? For one thing, he's played three less AFL games than Blicavs, Vardy, Walker and Simpson combined. For another, he's probably played 10 of those games as the only ruckman for Geelong, something Blicavs and Vardy have never done in the AFL. For another, he's the only premiership ruckman on our list. As for his form in the VFL, I'm afraid I can only go by the VFL results page, which has West in the best players for the past two weeks and averaging 45.8 hitouts a game (hitout stats haven't been made available for Friday night's game).

It is clear that the MC see Vardy as our number 1 right now, and whilst his performances have been modest as well, he seems a little more hungry for the contest right now.
As has been pointed out multiple times in these comparisons, even cutting Vardy some slack for the knock he took at the start of the game, if West contributed 3 kicks, 1 handball, 0 marks, 1 tackle, 1 goal and 9 hitouts in a game, people on here would probably think delisting was an inadequate punishment and would be demanding his immediate execution. I mean, are people still that blind to the double standard with West's actual output and every other ruckman on our list?

Tough for West, but right now, Vardy and Blicavs are our best combination.
That I can agree with. Regardless of raw numbers, it's hard to argue with the results of the past fortnight. Still, if the West/Vardy question isn't at least brought up at the match committee meeting, as far as I'm concerned, the match committee is not doing its job.

Hopefully this will be vindicated in the finals. Who knows though, West could become a factor if he puts in the hard yards in the VFL.
Agree with this as well. Regardless of what my personal preference is, I hope whatever decisions the Geelong hierarchy make are vindicated. And for all intents and purposes it seems that West is putting in the hard yards. Considering the position that he finds himself in, I hardly think the team would be putting him in the best players every week, if he was going through the motions with his bottom lip dragging along the ground.
 

FredLeDeux

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What would you consider 'hardened'? For one thing, he's played three less AFL games than Blicavs, Vardy, Walker and Simpson combined. For another, he's probably played 10 of those games as the only ruckman for Geelong, something Blicavs and Vardy have never done in the AFL. For another, he's the only premiership ruckman on our list. As for his form in the VFL, I'm afraid I can only go by the VFL results page, which has West in the best players for the past two weeks and averaging 45.8 hitouts a game (hitout stats haven't been made available for Friday night's game).

Added to which, Russell said during yesterday's telecast that he had been bog on Friday night.
 

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Partridge

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Be a massive test against two very good rucks at Freo. Whether we can setup to counter strike against a very good clearance team will be interesting...but we are going to have to.

Still have faith in the ability of Vardy and Blicavs around the ground to at least provide value to our finals campaign.

Vardy is going to put in a big performance soon and it will take a few by surprise
Won't take us by surprise, but really, given the reputation he continues to enjoy, he needs to.
 

Partridge

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That's a little factually incorrect on a few fronts.

I like West, but he is far from hardened at AFL level and his results in the AFL and VFL have been modest.
West has played 53 senior games. That's way more than any other ruckman on our list bar McIntosh, and it's about the same as Christensen and Taylor Hunt, and more than Caddy (39), Guthrie (37), and Motlop (47). Do you think Christensen or Taylor Hunt aren't hardened?

His AFL results AND VFL results have been modest? Ok....

1. West averages the same number of disposals this season as Vardy. This season. So if you're arguing Vardy offers more around the ground, sorry but he doesn't. West does average nearly 11 hitouts a game more though (21.1 to 10.2). Vardy offers more up forward, I think we all agree there.

2. West has had 20 or more hitouts a game this season 6 times, including a high of 42 hitouts against GWS. Vardy has not reached 20 hitouts once. He played the same game against GWS, and had 6 hitouts.

3. In his last 5 matches in the VFL, West has recorded the following number of hitouts - 62, 46, 45, 31, and 47 hitouts. Don't have the stats yet for Friday's massacre in Bendigo, but I'm guessing he had a few there as well.

EDIT: The stats have come through from Friday night. 25 disposals, 4 marks, 1 goal and 51 hitouts.

West has outperformed as a tap ruckman everyone else except Simpson. If the club have decided that they value run around the ground more, and want Vardy and Blicavs, then so be it, but don't try and say West has been below par compared to them, because it's just not true.
 

Partridge

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As has been pointed out multiple times in these comparisons, even cutting Vardy some slack for the knock he took at the start of the game, if West contributed 3 kicks, 1 handball, 0 marks, 1 tackle, 1 goal and 9 hitouts in a game, people on here would probably think delisting was an inadequate punishment and would be demanding his immediate execution. I mean, are people still that blind to the double standard with West's actual output and every other ruckman on our list?
Yes, they absolutely are. For one thing, there are two great crimes West has committed. One, he's not Nathan Vardy. Two, he's not Mark Blicavs. And we can't have that.

And people were demanding West's head after the North loss. Even though, and this again is where they hypocrisy lies, he had more hitouts than Vardy and Blicavs combined. In the same game. And played half the game time they did. And had the same possessions as Blicavs.


Agree with this as well. Regardless of what my personal preference is, I hope whatever decisions the Geelong hierarchy make are vindicated. And for all intents and purposes it seems that West is putting in the hard yards. Considering the position that he finds himself in, I hardly think the team would be putting him in the best players every week, if he was going through the motions with his bottom lip dragging along the ground.
Anyone who watched the Port game last week knows he's putting in the hard yards, and isn't sulking. He played a good game throughout and dominated the hitouts in the last quarter. Gave T.Hunt and Chapman some absolutely golden service. I can only imagine the platitudes on here if Vardy had done the same.
 
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Yes, they absolutely are. For one thing, there are two great crimes West has committed. One, he's not Nathan Vardy. Two, he's not Mark Blicavs. And we can't have that.

And people were demanding West's head after the North loss. Even though, and this again is where they hypocrisy lies, he had more hitouts than Vardy and Blicavs combined. In the same game. And played half the game time they did. And had the same possessions as Blicavs.




Anyone who watched the Port game last week knows he's putting in the hard yards, and isn't sulking. He played a good game throughout and dominated the hitouts in the last quarter. Gave T.Hunt and Chapman some absolutely golden service. I can only imagine the platitudes on here if Vardy had done the same.


Hasn't Vardy also maybe slightly hurt his hip abductor muscle?? Id say if that is the case he may give Westy a run this week to see how he goes.
 

Partridge

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Hasn't Vardy also maybe slightly hurt his hip abductor muscle?? Id say if that is the case he may give Westy a run this week to see how he goes.
He was pointing to it at one point on the bench. Seemed to move relatively freely while he was on the ground though.

I absolutely get why they want him in the side, it's just there will be (and are) quiet games until he develops some consistency.
 
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