The Inevitable War - Keating goes bang

Remove this Banner Ad

One party that is losing relevance claims to be the legitimate leaders of China (with some justification since they were only beaten because they fought the Japanese while the communist leadership cowered in the hills) however most Taiwanese fully support recognition of the fact that they are a free and independent nation.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

if this is the bar for war, are you also saying we should invade russia to protect Ukraine?
 
Jun 6, 2016
19,265
12,008
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Pines Football Club
We are told armed conflict worldwide is at a low not seen in several decades

how ironic that leaders world wide seem to be talking war up at an alarming rate

maybe it’s because there’s no ‘real’ fear of war and they are chest beating. Some of them would sh*t themselves if there was

Someone gets it.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Jun 6, 2016
19,265
12,008
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Pines Football Club
Why are we buying tanks and subs then?

Really? Why are superpowers armed to the teeth with nuclear? Why are nations around the world upping their arms?

It's all bluff, no ones going to push the button and nuke another nation.

Unless one is at the intelligence level of plankton, one would know a boots on ground / arms war is not going to happen. Chest beating and dick measuring of course will go on ad nauseum, doesn't mean one will follow through. If any of them do, it will be at their peril (and the rest of the world)

All of these leaders (serious nutbags) have or have had serious arms and nuclear power at their disposal, none of them have declared a military war on another nation.
  • Xi
  • Kim
  • Trump
  • Putin
  • Bojo (not as nutty as the rest - admittedly)
Not one.

Why are they all upping their defence budgets? Think about that for a minute.
 

ExcitementMachine

Premiership Player
Aug 5, 2019
3,035
2,640
AFL Club
Collingwood
Don't blame me for the fact you're knowledge of world history is sub par.

But tell you what, let's assume you are right and Taiwan renounce all their territorial aims and declare independence tomorrow, china invade, and we declare war.

Then what?

How do we win this war that you want?

When did I say I want a war?
You have got me all wrong. You've made a number of unfounded assertions about me in the last page of this thread, and have become insulting none of which is true.

I log off from my hotmail and go to the MSN page - and I cringe at all the articles with Chinese flags claiming what Xi is going to do next.
I also cringe at the ABC.

My knowledge of world history is actually pretty good, you just denigrate that too because we are at odds with our geopolitical views in the region.

Just last week in my office I completely wow'ed my 60yo Chinese colleague by talking with the authority of a lecture at Uni - discussing the pivotal moment in Chinese history in 1976 where Mao Zedong died of a heart attack, which some say rocked China so hard there was an earthquake in Tangshan that killed 300,000 but due to underreporting it was something closer to 1,000,000 and when Deng Xiaoping took over the reigns and claimed to get rich was glorious, the CCP was then only communist in name.

Whilst we disagree on many things - I love reading your posts and your knowledge, your much better than the pettiness you displayed in the last page of this thread toward me.

Just to let you know - you're wife may have connections or insight into the running of the CCP - I can assure you that I know contacts that are actually very high up in the CCP - billionaires - and they now live in Australia.

I have street smarts, inside knowledge - and a great understanding of the history on this subject - much better than your average Joe.
For you to say otherwise is an example of you yet again showing your personal bias - and your want to shape the narrative of the discussion on this subject.
Oh if a war happened - boots on the ground - who knows what the consequences of that would be. Lets hope not - but we are here to discuss and speculate right. Nothing wrong with that.

The ''read a book' insult cut deep - I work 50 hour weeks and would love to have the time to read up on things I'm gifted at - Word History. I really don't like it when someone from my side of politics becomes insulting and snobbish - because my views just aren't at the level of ABC wokeness. That doesn't mean I then get all my news from Sky.
 
Last edited:
When did I say I want a war?
You have got me all wrong. You've made a number of unfounded assertions about me in the last page of this thread, and have become insulting none of which is true.

I log off from my hotmail and go to the MSN page - and I cringe at all the articles with Chinese flags claiming what Xi is going to do next.
I also cringe at the ABC.

My knowledge of world history is actually pretty good, you just denigrate that too because we are at odds with our geopolitical views in the region.

Just last week in my office I completely wow'ed my 60yo Chinese colleague by talking with the authority of a lecture at Uni - discussing the pivotal moment in Chinese history in 1976 where Mao Zedong died of a heart attack, which some say rocked China so hard there was an earthquake in Tangshan that killed 300,000 but due to underreporting it was something closer to 1,000,000 and when Deng Xiaoping took over the reigns and claimed to get rich was glorious, the CCP was then only communist in name.

Whilst we disagree on many things - I love reading your posts and your knowledge, your much better than the pettiness you displayed in the last page of this thread toward me.

Just to let you know - you're wife may have connections or insight into the running of the CCP - I can assure you that I know contacts that are actually very high up in the CCP - billionaires - and they now live in Australia.

I have street smarts, inside knowledge - and a great understanding of the history on this subject - much better than your average Joe.
For you to say otherwise is an example of you yet again showing your personal bias - and your want to shape the narrative of the discussion on this subject.
Oh if a war happened - boots on the ground - who knows what the consequences of that would be. Lets hope not - but we are here to discuss and speculate right. Nothing wrong with that.

The ''read a book' insult cut deep - I work 50 hour weeks and would love to have the time to read up on things I'm gifted at - Word History. I really don't like it when someone from my side of politics becomes insulting and snobbish - because my views just aren't at the level of ABC wokeness. That doesn't mean I then get all my news from Sky.

so wait, you've gone to you didnt have the wealth and good fortune to have the luxury of reading exotic books, to well read and best mates with billionaires? FMD

again, answer the question. If Taiwan do what you say they want - renounce their territorials claims and declare independence, and china invades, and australia declares war - how do we "win"?

we have just gotten out of two failed wars that completely and utterly failed to achieve any of their objectives. If we are sending troops to Taipei, what is their mission and how is it achieved?

If the mission is to hold out until the chinese walk away, estimates are china has between 500k-1m missiles pointed at the island (taiwan a smaller but still significant number pointed the other way). This isnt a war we can just manage with a naval and air blockade
 

ExcitementMachine

Premiership Player
Aug 5, 2019
3,035
2,640
AFL Club
Collingwood
so wait, you've gone to you didnt have the wealth and good fortune to have the luxury of reading exotic books, to well read and best mates with billionaires? FMD

You seem pretty obsessed by me. I understand, I'm very interesting and my life experiences are pivotal to the learnings of this board and this subject.
Some people are eclectic. I'm one of those. I went to the worst school in Melbourne with the combined worst TER score in the state - it's closed down now. I wasn't getting my new start because it went into a guardians bank account who was using it for gambling and drugs. Later on down the track I studied an Arts degree at Uni - so I know what that's about too. It's a very different path to the son of a Billionaire who's had everything gifted to him.

For your interest - and you do seem to take an interest in me - I work immense hours like most - the rest of that time is furnishing my home and maintaining it - looking after and caring for dysfunctional family members - sozialising where I can - watching Collingwood beat up on Richmond - and not much else. I'm time poor Ned. Remember, in 2021 house prices are 5.5 times the annual average income so we have to work hard moving forward - and that's domestic politics that shapes these discussions.

I have a great knowledge of history - and I want to read more - but forgive me for being time poor Ned. I won't make any apologues for being eclectic, and your newfounded suspicions around that.

Perhaps try and understand where some people are coming from, rather than spitting the dummy and hurling insults at those who partake in uncomfortable conversations from the angle of your worldview.

The world is an amazing place, and so are it's people.
 
You seem pretty obsessed by me. I understand, I'm very interesting and my life experiences are pivotal to the learnings of this board and this subject.
Some people are eclectic. I'm one of those. I went to the worst school in Melbourne with the combined worst TER score in the state - it's closed down now. I wasn't getting my new start because it went into a guardians bank account who was using it for gambling and drugs. Later on down the track I studied an Arts degree at Uni - so I know what that's about too. It's a very different path to the son of a Billionaire who's had everything gifted to him.

For your interest - and you do seem to take an interest in me - I work immense hours like most - the rest of that time is furnishing my home and maintaining it - looking after and caring for dysfunctional family members - sozialising where I can - watching Collingwood beat up on Richmond - and not much else. I'm time poor Ned. Remember, in 2021 house prices are 5.5 times the annual average income so we have to work hard moving forward - and that's domestic politics that shapes these discussions.

I have a great knowledge of history - and I want to read more - but forgive me for being time poor Ned. I won't make any apologues for being eclectic, and your newfounded suspicions around that.

Perhaps try and understand where some people are coming from, rather than spitting the dummy and hurling insults at those who partake in uncomfortable conversations from the angle of your worldview.

The world is an amazing place, and so are it's people.

and what does any of this have to do with how we defeat china in a war to defend taiwan?
 

HPKS

Premiership Player
Apr 6, 2012
4,044
5,596
Perth
AFL Club
Sydney
You seem pretty obsessed by me. I understand, I'm very interesting and my life experiences are pivotal to the learnings of this board and this subject.
Some people are eclectic. I'm one of those. I went to the worst school in Melbourne with the combined worst TER score in the state - it's closed down now. I wasn't getting my new start because it went into a guardians bank account who was using it for gambling and drugs. Later on down the track I studied an Arts degree at Uni - so I know what that's about too. It's a very different path to the son of a Billionaire who's had everything gifted to him.

For your interest - and you do seem to take an interest in me - I work immense hours like most - the rest of that time is furnishing my home and maintaining it - looking after and caring for dysfunctional family members - sozialising where I can - watching Collingwood beat up on Richmond - and not much else. I'm time poor Ned. Remember, in 2021 house prices are 5.5 times the annual average income so we have to work hard moving forward - and that's domestic politics that shapes these discussions.

I have a great knowledge of history - and I want to read more - but forgive me for being time poor Ned. I won't make any apologues for being eclectic, and your newfounded suspicions around that.

Perhaps try and understand where some people are coming from, rather than spitting the dummy and hurling insults at those who partake in uncomfortable conversations from the angle of your worldview.

The world is an amazing place, and so are it's people.
Ok boomer
 

ExcitementMachine

Premiership Player
Aug 5, 2019
3,035
2,640
AFL Club
Collingwood
and what does any of this have to do with how we defeat china in a war to defend taiwan?

Dont play coy with me ned, it has everything to do with your insults and suspicions of me displayed in the last few pages of this thread.

Your question required a thesis to answer, we are talking about ww3, despite my brilliant understanding of history, i'm not a professor on the military might of superpowers and its capabilities or the intricacies of strategic allied dupport and the dominoes to fall.if it would entail, and neither would you even if you have knowledge of that. I do know that such a war would be devastating for Australia and our region.

What I said was if we do nothing if/when china takes Taiwan by force - then what next?

Thats a fair question Ned it doesn't mean im suggesting putting all troops in to fight along side our western allies in Taiwan if it were to happen.

I agree with Paul Keating, we can't turn our back on our geography, im not sure we should send troops alongside our allies if it comes to that, but there'd be so much water to go down under the bridge til then and then a lot of water there after, so the right path to take would be a contentious issue as is this very subject.

What you are being, is intellectually lazy to suggest I read a book or stop reading bolt to downright insulting claiming my knowledge of world.history is sub par - you're better than that.
 
Last edited:
Dont play coy with me ned, it has everything to do with your insults and suspicions of me displayed in the last few pages of this thread.

Your question required a thesis to answer, we are talking about ww3, despite my brilliant understanding of history, i'm not a professor on the military might of superpowers and its capabilities or the intricacies of strategic allied dupport and the dominoes to fall.if it would entail, and neither would you even if you have knowledge of that. I do know that such a war would be devastating for Australia and our region.

What I said was if we do nothing if/when china takes Taiwan by force - then what next?

Thats a fair question Ned it doesn't mean im suggesting putting all troops in to fight along side our western allies in Taiwan if it were to happen.

I agree with Paul Keating, we can't turn our back on our geography, im not sure we should send troops alongside our allies if it comes to that, but there'd be so much water to go down under the bridge til then and then a lot of water there after, so the right path to take would be a contentious issue as is this very subject.

What you are being, is intellectually lazy to suggest I read a book or stop reading bolt to downright insulting claiming my knowledge of world.history is sub par - you're better than that.

So you want to defend the independent Taiwan, but not have a war

Good luck with that
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

ExcitementMachine

Premiership Player
Aug 5, 2019
3,035
2,640
AFL Club
Collingwood
So you want to defend the independent Taiwan, but not have a war

Good luck with that

You need to stop making assumptions about me, or my beliefs. You're way off.
I don't read Bolt or watch Sky News. I love history and would love the privilege to be time rich and read up on it more. I even enjoy your knowledge, not so much your emphatic views on incredibly complex geopolitical issues.

So I will tell you what I really think about Taiwan. Not much. I'm critical of Chinese nationalism and it's claims of a land that's at best - odds with them.
Do we defend Taiwan if conflict ensues and my opinion on that? How long is a piece of string, Ned. There's so many variables, complexities that you often ignore, that one must consider. I'm not sure it's in our interests - but my original post where I stated that - if they do invade then what and who is next. No-one can really predict the future and I'm sitting on the fence despite whatever fiction you're creating in regards to my position.

Like me, you are very knowledgeable, where you let yourself down badly is your absolutist views about the incredibly complex and fluid geopolitical region Australia exists in.

Despite your pigheadedness and your absolutism - for someone that came from the ghettos of Franga - your knowledge and insight on the SRP is admirable.
You've done well.
 
Last edited:
You need to stop making assumptions about me, or my beliefs. You're way off.
I don't read Bolt or watch Sky News. I love history and would love the privilege to be time rich and read up on it more. I even enjoy your knowledge, not so much your emphatic views on incredibly complex geopolitical issues.

So I will tell you what I really think about Taiwan. Not much. I'm critical of Chinese nationalism and it's claims of a land that's at best - odds with them.
Do we defend Taiwan if conflict ensues and my opinion on that? How long is a piece of string, Ned. There's so many variables, complexities that you often ignore, that one must consider. I'm not sure it's in our interests - but my original post where I stated that - if they do invade then what and who is next. No-one can really predict the future and I'm sitting on the fence despite whatever fiction you're creating in regards to my position.

Like me, you are very knowledgeable, where you let yourself down badly is your absolutist views about the incredibly complex and fluid geopolitical region Australia exists in.

Despite your pigheadedness and your absolutism - for someone that came from the ghettos of Franga - you're knowledge and insight on the SRP is admirable.
You've done well.

here is the bit you're struggling with, our intervention and support of Taiwan has nothing to do with whether we like mainland china, xi, the ccp, or even chinese people. Its about can we achieve our objective.

I have a lot of Uki mates, and they LOATHE everything about Russia (most were soviet runners as young kids). even with my own personal sympathy for their cause, i cannot support the west militarily intervening in the Ukraine, because it wont support Ukrainian independence, and will just lead to a major war.

as such, its about compromise. How do we find a way to stop the russians invading in the first place. EU/NATO isnt the answer (as Ukraine wanting to join up with the west triggered this s**t), its finding a way to have Ukraine have their independence, but with it not being aligned to either side (and this is easier said than done).

for china and taiwan, the equation is even more simple. maintain the kabuki. taiwan acts as an independent country, but at arms length of the usa (in terms of no troops on the ground). independence may be desirable for some on the island and the west, but the price paid will be millions dead on both sides of the straits. If thats a price the Taiwanese are prepared to pay, great, but we should be nowhere near it.

add this to syria on the list of places us getting involved will make an ugly situation even worse. If we are to intervene, it has to be with clear rules on our involvement, what the goals are, and how they will be achieved.
 

ExcitementMachine

Premiership Player
Aug 5, 2019
3,035
2,640
AFL Club
Collingwood
here is the bit you're struggling with, our intervention and support of Taiwan has nothing to do with whether we like mainland china, xi, the ccp, or even chinese people. Its about can we achieve our objective.

I have a lot of Uki mates, and they LOATHE everything about Russia (most were soviet runners as young kids). even with my own personal sympathy for their cause, i cannot support the west militarily intervening in the Ukraine, because it wont support Ukrainian independence, and will just lead to a major war.

as such, its about compromise. How do we find a way to stop the russians invading in the first place. EU/NATO isnt the answer (as Ukraine wanting to join up with the west triggered this sh*t), its finding a way to have Ukraine have their independence, but with it not being aligned to either side (and this is easier said than done).

for china and taiwan, the equation is even more simple. maintain the kabuki. taiwan acts as an independent country, but at arms length of the usa (in terms of no troops on the ground). independence may be desirable for some on the island and the west, but the price paid will be millions dead on both sides of the straits. If thats a price the Taiwanese are prepared to pay, great, but we should be nowhere near it.

add this to syria on the list of places us getting involved will make an ugly situation even worse. If we are to intervene, it has to be with clear rules on our involvement, what the goals are, and how they will be achieved.

On Russia and the Ukraine situation I don't know much, and I don't really care as it's on the other side of the globe and has only and ever will effect Australia/Australians when a Russian military personal went rogue and shot down MH17 killing 35 Australians on board plus hundreds of other civilians. We can never forget Abbott grandstanding - claiming he'd like to shirtfront Putin. As we know - we don't really trade with Russia - they are a competitor. It doesn't impact us, it's not our geography like Taiwan is. Which for mine makes Taiwan more interesting for Australia and Australians.

Russia is a nationalist dictatorship run by a cunning, manipulative, sociopath. IN the late 90's he bombed Chechnya and framed it on it's civilians when his popularity was waning and then invaded it. He can achieve these goals because like China, Russia is a nationalist dictatorship. Ukraine wants to be independent - the people don't want to be a part of Russia - so let that be. Unhinged nationalism where the government and it's people vow for land on a map that's not yearned to be a part of by the people who live there is unhinged. That reflects the reality of China/Taiwan relations too.

I get the example of you using the similarities in China/Taiwan with Russia/Ukraine. Things aren't going great for China right now and they are flying war jets as a show of strength around Taiwan - and many academics and experts claim that it's a matter of time before they invade Taiwan. What action should be taken and what should Australia's position be - it's far more central to our existence geopolitically than the far fetched region of the Ukraine border. I'm critical of such nationalism - in such a scenario what action should Australia take? We both know that that circumstance could best be answered long after such a conflict - maybe 20-30 years after.

My knowledge of military might is limited - so I sit on the fence and hope our politicians will get these questions right.
We can talk about the present - even be emphatic about it - the future is a mystery, Australia can prepare based on knowledge, history, developments in the region - ultimately it would be all speculative.

No-one here predicted a pandemic that's changed the world - we can't talk in absolutist terms about our geopolitical region in 30 years from now - or precisely what Australia's position or what it should do if such an even is to occur in the next 10 years.
 
Last edited:
On Russia and the Ukraine situation I don't know much, and I don't really care as it's on the other side of the globe and has only and ever will effect Australia/Australians when a Russian military personal went rogue and shot down MH17 killing 35 Australians on board plus hundreds of other civilians. We can never forget Abbott grandstanding - claiming he'd like to shirtfront Putin. As we know - we don't really trade with Russia - they are a competitor. It doesn't impact us, it's not our geography like Taiwan is. Which for mine makes Taiwan more interesting for Australia and Australians.

Russia is a nationalist dictatorship run by a cunning, manipulative, sociopath. IN the late 90's he bombed Chechnya and framed it on it's civilians when his popularity was waning and then invaded it. He can achieve these goals because like China, Russia is a nationalist dictatorship. Ukraine wants to be independent - the people don't want to be a part of Russia - so let that be. Unhinged nationalism where the government and it's people vow for land on a map that's not yearned to be a part of by the people who live there is unhinged. That reflects the reality of China/Taiwan relations too.

I get the example of you using the similarities in China/Taiwan with Russia/Ukraine. Things aren't going great for China right now and they are flying war jets as a show of strength around Taiwan - and many academics and experts claim that it's a matter of time before they invade Taiwan. What action should be taken and what should Australia's position be - it's far more central to our existence geopolitically than the far fetched region of the Ukraine border. I'm critical of such nationalism - in such a scenario what action should Australia take? We both know that that circumstance could best be answered long after such a conflict - maybe 20-30 years after.

My knowledge of military might is limited - so I sit on the fence and hope our politicians will get these questions right.
We can talk about the present - even be emphatic about it - the future is a mystery, Australia can prepare based on knowledge, history, developments in the region - ultimately it would be all speculative.

No-one here predicted a pandemic that's changed the world - we can't talk in absolutist terms about our geopolitical region in 30 years from now - or precisely what Australia's position or what it should do if such an even is to occur in the next 10 years.

this is where i have the benefit of being a cold war baby. just because we dont like a foreign power, and even if we are right, it doesnt mean the best thing to do is act

ask yourself why china is ramping up now. taiwan has had independence leaning leaders before, so that aint it. taiwan has had major arms purchases before, so that aint it

this is the usa pushing the taiwan button in order to get tension up to support its effort to get a coalition on board to reverse the SCS. US troops have been in taiwan for over a decade, but unofficially (as its a red line for the chinese). This year the USA outed them. the usa never encouraged taiwan to declare independence until trump did so.

this "war" isnt about taiwan being free, its the usa getting leverage and urgency on us, japan, and asean to oppose china.

and this is where we come to the original question, what are we signing up for. the moment taiwan declares independence, the chinese invasion fleet will leave port, together with the biggest bombardment in human history. Taiwan will respond, and estimates are china will lose as many as 50% of the troops crossing the water. then what?

the USA can only send carriers, and they will not want to send them into the strait IMO (why risk billions of dollars of boat in the eye of the storm). They will focus on bombing chinese missile sites and fighting for air supremacy. but then what? by doing this, guam, okinawa, and even the bases in SK come into play. So suddenly instead of defending just the Taiwanese, its having to fight to protect its bases across thousands of miles of ocean, with 1-3 carrier groups and 30k troops in SK.

Those odds suck, and the USA will need to send the bulk of its fleet to the pacific, and hundreds of thousands of troops to Taiwan and Japan. and this cost is why they wont. they are talking tough (just as the chinese are), but I cannot see how any usa govt is prepared to spend trillions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives on another war (so soon after afghanistan).

for history on how the USA handle stuff like this, look at Iran and russia and north korea - sanctions, naval blockade, and angry finger pointing in the UN
 

ExcitementMachine

Premiership Player
Aug 5, 2019
3,035
2,640
AFL Club
Collingwood
this is where i have the benefit of being a cold war baby. just because we dont like a foreign power, and even if we are right, it doesnt mean the best thing to do is act

ask yourself why china is ramping up now. taiwan has had independence leaning leaders before, so that aint it. taiwan has had major arms purchases before, so that aint it

this is the usa pushing the taiwan button in order to get tension up to support its effort to get a coalition on board to reverse the SCS. US troops have been in taiwan for over a decade, but unofficially (as its a red line for the chinese). This year the USA outed them. the usa never encouraged taiwan to declare independence until trump did so.

this "war" isnt about taiwan being free, its the usa getting leverage and urgency on us, japan, and asean to oppose china.

and this is where we come to the original question, what are we signing up for. the moment taiwan declares independence, the chinese invasion fleet will leave port, together with the biggest bombardment in human history. Taiwan will respond, and estimates are china will lose as many as 50% of the troops crossing the water. then what?

the USA can only send carriers, and they will not want to send them into the strait IMO (why risk billions of dollars of boat in the eye of the storm). They will focus on bombing chinese missile sites and fighting for air supremacy. but then what? by doing this, guam, okinawa, and even the bases in SK come into play. So suddenly instead of defending just the Taiwanese, its having to fight to protect its bases across thousands of miles of ocean, with 1-3 carrier groups and 30k troops in SK.

Those odds suck, and the USA will need to send the bulk of its fleet to the pacific, and hundreds of thousands of troops to Taiwan and Japan. and this cost is why they wont. they are talking tough (just as the chinese are), but I cannot see how any usa govt is prepared to spend trillions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives on another war (so soon after afghanistan).

for history on how the USA handle stuff like this, look at Iran and russia and north korea - sanctions, naval blockade, and angry finger pointing in the UN

History is my strong suit - military games is something I should read a book on. ;)

If I trust what you say, and a conflict would be a bloodbath on both sides - then would either state initiate such a conflict? Would the US still be suffering from Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan syndrome in say 2027 - if the proverbial hit the fan then? Do we have a lunatic like Trump back in power - or any said republican?

The USA has a bad rap sheet but it's not manipulating China/Xi to be a nefarious actor in the SCS, Xinjiang, HK - or its posturing near Taiwan.

If China, like many experts on the topic claim, take Taiwan by force - and all we get is finger wave - then what's in store next?

It's all speculative but that's all mere mortals like you and I can do - with the knowledge we have.
 

Pessimistic

Cancelled
30k Posts 10k Posts HBF's Milk Crate - 70k Posts TheBrownDog
Sep 13, 2000
86,852
42,951
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Horks
History is my strong suit - military games is something I should read a book on. ;)

If I trust what you say, and a conflict would be a bloodbath on both sides - then would either state initiate such a conflict? Would the US still be suffering from Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan syndrome in say 2027 - if the proverbial hit the fan then? Do we have a lunatic like Trump back in power - or any said republican?

The USA has a bad rap sheet but it's not manipulating China/Xi to be a nefarious actor in the SCS, Xinjiang, HK - or its posturing near Taiwan.

If China, like many experts on the topic claim, take Taiwan by force - and all we get is finger wave - then what's in store next?

It's all speculative but that's all mere mortals like you and I can do - with the knowledge we have.

not to mention a climate disaster
 
History is my strong suit - military games is something I should read a book on. ;)

If I trust what you say, and a conflict would be a bloodbath on both sides - then would either state initiate such a conflict? Would the US still be suffering from Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan syndrome in say 2027 - if the proverbial hit the fan then? Do we have a lunatic like Trump back in power - or any said republican?

The USA has a bad rap sheet but it's not manipulating China/Xi to be a nefarious actor in the SCS, Xinjiang, HK - or its posturing near Taiwan.

If China, like many experts on the topic claim, take Taiwan by force - and all we get is finger wave - then what's in store next?

It's all speculative but that's all mere mortals like you and I can do - with the knowledge we have.

its not war or nothing. again, look at Iran and the Soviet Union. No direct war with either occurred, but a multi-layered approach of managing enproachment and detente

I have no idea why everyone thinks the options are 1) be Xi's bitch, or 2) war

*also its naive to think this starts and ends with Xi. Chinese people are fanatical about not repeating the mistakes of the opium wars and the capitulation to the west, and maintaining their view of the integrity of "china" is key to this. You could put a bullet in Xi's head tomorrow, but nothing will change
 
Jun 30, 2009
30,311
41,658
Deroesfromgero
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
east perth
its not war or nothing. again, look at Iran and the Soviet Union. No direct war with either occurred, but a multi-layered approach of managing enproachment and detente

I have no idea why everyone thinks the options are 1) be Xi's b*tch, or 2) war

*also its naive to think this starts and ends with Xi. Chinese people are fanatical about not repeating the mistakes of the opium wars and the capitulation to the west, and maintaining their view of the integrity of "china" is key to this. You could put a bullet in Xi's head tomorrow, but nothing will change
You missed out on millions being killed in proxy wars.


korea
Vietnam mk 1 and the american remix
Angola
Botswana
Rhodesia
South africa
Yemen
Malaya
Oman
Iran/iraq
Nicaragua
Cuba
Afghanistan (1980’s ussr remix)
China
Greece
Paraguay
Mau mau uprising
Algeria
Taiwan strait (original mao limited edition mix)


Thats off the top of my head - sure i can think of a few more ….

Its almost like euros were sick to death of trashing their own countries in big wars so decided to trash the poors instead!!

Outsourced house trashing parties so as to speak.
 
Last edited:
You missed out on millions being killed in proxy wars.


korea
Vietnam mk 1 and the american remix
Angola
Botswana
Rhodesia
South africa
Yemen
Malaya
Oman
Iran/iraq
Nicaragua
Cuba
Afghanistan (1980’s ussr remix)
China
Greece
Paraguay
Mau mau uprising
Algeria
Taiwan strait (original mao limited edition mix)


Thats off the top of my head - sure i can think if a few more

Its almost like euros were sick to death of trashing their own countries in big wars so decided to trash the poors instead!!

Outsourced house trashing parties so as to speak.

as scummy as proxy wars are, they cost us less lives than the USA and Soviets going head to head

that said, id like australia to stop jumping into proxies just because the usa summons us
 
Jun 30, 2009
30,311
41,658
Deroesfromgero
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
east perth
as scummy as proxy wars are, they cost us less lives than the USA and Soviets going head to head

that said, id like australia to stop jumping into proxies just because the usa summons us
Just one more thing the west dumps on the developing world…. Still as you say - better than mushroom clouds…. Well not for the dead and mutilated and tortured and burned and deformed from agent orange….

But for us its better i guess.
 
Just one more thing the west dumps on the developing world…. Still as you say - better than mushroom clouds…. Well not for the dead and mutilated and tortured and burned and deformed from agent orange….

But for us its better i guess.

1) billions die with mushroom clouds
2) mushroom clouds * the developing world more than proxy wars
 
Jun 6, 2016
19,265
12,008
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Pines Football Club
I have no idea why everyone thinks the options are 1) be Xi's b*tch, or 2) war

We're already Xi's b*tch, if we decided to get on our knees and suck his appendage it'd be the same, nothin would change, he'll do as he pleases. That's obvious with the petulant behaviour from Xi and his admin, partly coz of the buffoon from marketing and his incompetence, spud heads rhetoric and has been wanna be abbott.

We know Joe won't push the button or send troops to ......... anywhere, even given his finger waving at Xi about 'bullying' other nations, (mainly talking about us)

We're already in a war, a cyber and trade war. the upping in arms and nuclear arms is all a dick measuring contest. Like our limp dick sub deal (would've been either way)

Not even Xi would be dumb enough hit the button, off the top of my head all of these nutjobs have been or are commander in chief of nuclear / superpower nations
  • Xi
  • Putin
  • Trump
  • Kim
  • Bojo (not so nutty)
Not one them has previously declared war on another nation, not one. Sure there's been plenty of 'baiting' like Kim or Xi in the SCS etc, but again it's a show of 'don't fk with us, you'll be sorry!' when it's all bluff.

I have no idea why everyone thinks the options are 1/ Suck Xi's dick and everything's ok or 2/ Boots on the ground / military war.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back