The Joker Movie starring Joaqin Pheonix October 2019 release

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vast said:
To me I kinda liked coz I was thinking of them as Joker and Batman and their relationship as its largely known, I was thinking being half brothers would make sense in way but I wasnt upset by the way it went.

The only thing I didnt like in the movie was the fight club flashback. Completely unecessary as Joaquin made it clear just through his acting that those interactions with her werent actually happening. Great acting and directing to change his demeanour in his fantasies to be more confident and charming basically an idealised version of himself.

That would have been a studio note to dumb it down even after it was confirmed by her confronting him in the apartment
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I was surprised she left her door unlocked, it’s Gotham City. Always lock your door!

What’s your take on this - did he kill her?
 

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glenferry23 said:
same. He appeared to reserve his murdering for those who had ‘wronged’ him. Hence sparing Gary and letting him leave his apartment.

Either way, him sitting on her couch staring silently was scary as fu**.
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What did you make of the ending? Obviously intentionally ambigious to promote discussion. As many will be asking did all that happen. Personally I think it all did because of that shot of Bruce just before/while he was laughing to himself and the Dr asks him whats so funny and then he says just thinking of a funny joke and then ends with oh you wouldnt get it. Just the perfect note to end the movie on thinking about it. Just a great line for him, not just this version but The Joker as a whole. But again you could easily assume he imagined pretty much the entire film sitting the cell and then escaped at the very end. And I thought he def killed her because of the visible bloody footprints which he prob would not imagine.

For a moment I did wonder if he actually killed his mother coz she was on a heart monitor when suffocated her which starting beeping quickly and I was waiting for the flatline sound but it never came. Deliberate? who knows.
 
TheGreatBarryB said:
Going to watch it anyway but some of the reviews have bagged it. Guardian called it most disappointing movie of the year. Wow

www.theguardian.com

Joker review – the most disappointing film of the year

Todd Phillips’ solemn but shallow supervillain origins movie has a strong performance by Joaquin Phoenix but is weighed down by realist detail and tedious material
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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It's funny I'm yet to hear a negative review on any of the forums, yet every liberal rag and normie main stream media website are pedalling the same narrative about how grim it is and how much it takes itself too seriously.

Look forward to seeing it on Sunday, I'm sure Phoenix will live up to the hype.
 
glenferry23 said:
My initial reaction to him being Thomas Wayne’s son was mixed. This was a different take on Thomas Wayne which I largely didn’t mind even though he wasn’t as “nice and warm” as the Batman Begins version.

But infidelity, having an illegitimate child etc, was perhaps a step too far. So I actually felt a bit of relief later when the truth of his adoption etc was revealed.

As for the Joker non backstory, if done correctly it is fine. The Killing Joke concept was “one bad day”. And this was an extension to “a rough few weeks”.
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The truth about the adoption? What was your take of the photo of his mother and the T.W notation?
 
vast said:
What did you make of the ending? Obviously intentionally ambigious to promote discussion. As many will be asking did all that happen. Personally I think it all did because of that shot of Bruce just before/while he was laughing to himself and the Dr asks him whats so funny and then he says just thinking of a funny joke and then ends with oh you wouldnt get it. Just the perfect note to end the movie on thinking about it. Just a great line for him, not just this version but The Joker as a whole. But again you could easily assume he imagined pretty much the entire film sitting the cell and then escaped at the very end. And I thought he def killed her because of the visible bloody footprints which he prob would not imagine.

For a moment I did wonder if he actually killed his mother coz she was on a heart monitor when suffocated her which starting beeping quickly and I was waiting for the flatline sound but it never came. Deliberate? who knows.
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It's going to be as open-ended as the Sopranos. So many reasons for it being a daydream, and for it being reality.

It's a dream because the age difference between Joker and Bruce is too big. Thomas Wayne is not a philanthropist but an elitist thug who may or may not have had improper relations. He's prone to delusional thoughts.
It's not a dream because it includes Batman's origin story, which he couldn't just make up (unless he's dreaming about the past). It's less likely to be a dream because the story already contains dreams.
 
This may be an unpopular opinion but I feel if the ENTIRE film was a dream, then it's a bit of a cop out.

Lot of the events that happen lose their impact, and instead of a film of about a social outcast finally breaking and having their thoughts manifest into horrible events, it's a guy who's already 100% certifiably insane.

I thought the sequences which were dreams were made obvious (the dates with his neighbour/being in the audience), so it would seem inconsistent with most of the movie. Throw in one of the most common event in Batman Wayne's and it seems odd to shoehorn that in the film.

I love that it diverged in someone places from Jokers usual origin stories (in fact I prefered it), have no issue this being a one and done, and certainly loved that it didn't play the usual comic book notes and was a real deep and confronting psychological film.

Happy to hear some alternative viewpoints but if the entire film is a dream, it gets to the point of asking why this leaned on using DC content instead of not have any comic book connection at all.(outside of $$$)

Few days on and still thinking about it. Great ******* movie, want to see it again haha.
 
Lethality said:
Interesting critical reaction, a lot of the films detractors seem concerned about the message of the film, or are opposed to it. One critic said the movie was even more dangerous than the character.

RT has it at 70% and falling, fan reaction will probably be high 90s.
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When paid for critics pan anything it is a must see for me.
 

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Joaquin Phoenix is a tremendous actor, as has been seen repeatedly these last few years with The Master, Her and You Were Never Really Here, and gave another A-grade performance here. It was a beautiful looking film, and full credit to the cinematography and set design, which were both glorious.

But my God, I hated it. Two hours of misery for no real purpose. Any social commentary was so heavy handed as to be awful. Leaning so heavily into movies such as Taxi Driver and King of Comedy only served to remind me how much more I enjoyed those films. I honestly considered walking out at some point, as it was increasingly clear where it was going, and I was getting absolutely no enjoyment of the ride to get there.

Change a half dozen names within it to take it out of the Batman universe and I don't see this having any mass appeal whatsoever. I'm clearly in the minority but this was just totally ugly and is my most disliked film of the year to date.
 
spinynorman said:
Joaquin Phoenix is a tremendous actor, as has been seen repeatedly these last few years with The Master, Her and You Were Never Really Here, and gave another A-grade performance here. It was a beautiful looking film, and full credit to the cinematography and set design, which were both glorious.

But my God, I hated it. Two hours of misery for no real purpose. Any social commentary was so heavy handed as to be awful. Leaning so heavily into movies such as Taxi Driver and King of Comedy only served to remind me how much more I enjoyed those films. I honestly considered walking out at some point, as it was increasingly clear where it was going, and I was getting absolutely no enjoyment of the ride to get there.

Change a half dozen names within it to take it out of the Batman universe and I don't see this having any mass appeal whatsoever. I'm clearly in the minority but this was just totally ugly and is my most disliked film of the year to date.
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Yes, my main criticism was that it was too much like Taxi Driver, right down to the possibility that the events of TD were not real . . . but I didn't really see where Joker was going. The rehearsal scene on the couch was a surprise to me, the interview itself was not really a surprise, but not obvious either. The ending was not obvious. But then again I haven't even seen King of Comedy, so maybe it helps to have not seen those.

I think it works whether it's a comic book movie or not. There were some fun scenes, like the dancing on the stairs.

Some might hate it for being too dark, but my view is the opposite, they too often interrupted the darker scenes with levity, just when I was appreciating the Joker's descent into violent crime and madness.
 
Struggle said:
From Gary leaving the corner to getting out of the door was amazing. Would he or wouldn't he? Ridiculously intense and hilarious at the same time

Easily the most satisfied I've walked out of a movie in a long time
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Very intense scene. I thought Gary was a gone, as soon as he’d asked Joker to unlock the door. I thought he was going to kill him next.

The whole scene really was gutting. Knew he’d kill the other man (forgot his name, the lawyer from Billions), that was set up earlier. But it was still gruesome to watch, with a pair of scissors. ******* hell.

And Gary in the background cowering in the corner asking him to stop, just brilliant acting all round.
 
Unique Name said:
The truth about the adoption? What was your take of the photo of his mother and the T.W notation?
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yes it’s very ambiguous, that note on the back of the photo would indicate there’s definitely something between the two of them. But whether he fathered her child? You can mount argument either way.

Especially with the resources at Wayne’s disposal, could very easily fabricate an adoption story and certificates etc.

For me though, I lean towards them not being related. However if they’re half brothers, that’s still okay. Joker and Batman are often viewed as two different sides of the same coin, both victims of the circumstances of “one bad day” etc. So in that context, it could still work fine.
 
vast said:
What did you make of the ending? Obviously intentionally ambigious to promote discussion. As many will be asking did all that happen. Personally I think it all did because of that shot of Bruce just before/while he was laughing to himself and the Dr asks him whats so funny and then he says just thinking of a funny joke and then ends with oh you wouldnt get it. Just the perfect note to end the movie on thinking about it. Just a great line for him, not just this version but The Joker as a whole. But again you could easily assume he imagined pretty much the entire film sitting the cell and then escaped at the very end. And I thought he def killed her because of the visible bloody footprints which he prob would not imagine.

For a moment I did wonder if he actually killed his mother coz she was on a heart monitor when suffocated her which starting beeping quickly and I was waiting for the flatline sound but it never came. Deliberate? who knows.
Click to expand...

Ryz said:
This may be an unpopular opinion but I feel if the ENTIRE film was a dream, then it's a bit of a cop out.

Lot of the events that happen lose their impact, and instead of a film of about a social outcast finally breaking and having their thoughts manifest into horrible events, it's a guy who's already 100% certifiably insane.

I thought the sequences which were dreams were made obvious (the dates with his neighbour/being in the audience), so it would seem inconsistent with most of the movie. Throw in one of the most common event in Batman Wayne's and it seems odd to shoehorn that in the film.

I love that it diverged in someone places from Jokers usual origin stories (in fact I prefered it), have no issue this being a one and done, and certainly loved that it didn't play the usual comic book notes and was a real deep and confronting psychological film.

Happy to hear some alternative viewpoints but if the entire film is a dream, it gets to the point of asking why this leaned on using DC content instead of not have any comic book connection at all.(outside of $$$)

Few days on and still thinking about it. Great ******* movie, want to see it again haha.
Click to expand...

Not a huge fan of the final minute, for me I would have been fine if it ended with the image of him standing on that police car being cheered whilst Gotham burns behind him.

Brilliant scene and thumping score. Sensational note to end it on. Intermixed with the death of the Wayne’s.

That final moment with the psychiatrist at Arkham (I’m guessing), I didn’t really like that. I enjoyed the “you wouldn’t get it reference”, a great callback to the greatest comic book novel of all time (more on that later).

But the scene itself, to then leave it open to interpretation if the entire events that transpired in the film actually happened or not? Nah, not a fan of that. Seems a bit of a cop out and cheapens the impact of the film for me.

I’ve got no problem with his delusional day dreaming about his date etc, his mental health was already rapidly deteriorating at that point. But whether the entire thing happened or not, no thank you. Anyway, minor gripe overall. But wish it didn’t end on that note.

I started reading The Dark Knight Returns again last night, it’s been a while. It still gets me, even after first reading it 30+ years ago. This is a sensational scene and clearly used as some inspiration for Joker’s appearance on the Murray Franklin show, an excerpt from the animated movie:

 
glenferry23 said:
Not a huge fan of the final minute, for me I would have been fine if it ended with the image of him standing on that police car being cheered whilst Gotham burns behind him.

Brilliant scene and thumping score. Sensational note to end it on. Intermixed with the death of the Wayne’s.

That final moment with the psychiatrist at Arkham (I’m guessing), I didn’t really like that. I enjoyed the “you wouldn’t get it reference”, a great callback to the greatest comic book novel of all time (more on that later).

But the scene itself, to then leave it open to interpretation if the entire events that transpired in the film actually happened or not? Nah, not a fan of that. Seems a bit of a cop out and cheapens the impact of the film for me.

I’ve got no problem with his delusional day dreaming about his date etc, his mental health was already rapidly deteriorating at that point. But whether the entire thing happened or not, no thank you. Anyway, minor gripe overall. But wish it didn’t end on that note.

I started reading The Dark Knight Returns again last night, it’s been a while. It still gets me, even after first reading it 30+ years ago. This is a sensational scene and clearly used as some inspiration for Joker’s appearance on the Murray Franklin show, an excerpt from the animated movie:

Click to expand...


where is the "you wouldnt get it" line originally from?

Edit: just saw the rest of ur post. Which part of the book does he say that? Is it also in the animated film?
 
vast said:
where is the "you wouldnt get it" line originally from?

Edit: just saw the rest of ur post. Which part of the book does he say that? Is it also in the animated film?
Click to expand...

it was slightly altered in the animated film. From memory in the novel it was his psychiatrist who is trying to defend him on the talk show about people not “getting it”. Then goes on to blame Batman for Joker’s sexual repression (the exact words escape me sorry). Can see why that was omitted in the animated movie.

Joker then kisses another female guest on the couch, similar to what he did on the Murray Franklin show. Definitely this was in homage to TDKR. I must say though I prefer the animated version of this in the clip I posted above, it’s a more powerful line “you wouldn’t get it” when it comes from Joker directly.
 
Lethality said:
Interesting critical reaction, a lot of the films detractors seem concerned about the message of the film, or are opposed to it. One critic said the movie was even more dangerous than the character.

RT has it at 70% and falling, fan reaction will probably be high 90s.
Click to expand...

It isn’t a Disney/Marvel film so there won’t be the circle jerk by paid shills.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
HenrikLundqvist said:
It's funny I'm yet to hear a negative review on any of the forums, yet every liberal rag and normie main stream media website are pedalling the same narrative about how grim it is and how much it takes itself too seriously.

Look forward to seeing it on Sunday, I'm sure Phoenix will live up to the hype.
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By Liberal, do you mean Yanky or Aussie Liberal? They are quite different.

Not that it matters anyway, I find this film is horrifying both sides of the political and social spectrum. The extremes of either have a lot of common ground.
 
Seen it today. Loved it.

Still think Heath Ledger is my favourite joker but this is a completely different type of film, so I don't want to compare them. Both great in their own ways.
 
Generally very good. A few things:
1. Was very different to Ledger’s performance. Honestly would have liked him to have become an all out singing, dancing, joking sociopath by the Murray Franklin Show but he was still a bit Arthur.
2. Would have liked a bit more plot. A lot of the key points were in the trailers.
3. Don’t think there was any doubt he did what happened at the end, notwithstanding his unreliable memory.

Don’t really get the controversy. There’s not much that’s hard to understand about an unfair, corrupt society and endless misery and exclusion turning men violent.

Loved the cinematography and the sprawling, ugly version of Gotham.

Think you could set another Gotham based film in the same universe, but not necessarily the Reeves one. Makes you wonder though, will Reeves have a Joker in his continuity. That’s a lot of cinematic Jokers if he does.
 
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