List Mgmt. The Kelly and All Draft and Trades Discussion Thread- #freetim #ITSHAPPENING

What will we pay for Kelly?

  • 2019 1st, future 2020 1st and 2nd for Kelly and their 2020 2nd

    Votes: 41 19.4%
  • 2019 1st and future 2020 1st

    Votes: 99 46.9%
  • 2019 1st plus a player e.g. Petrucelle, Brander

    Votes: 36 17.1%
  • 4th rounder and Kurt Mutimer

    Votes: 35 16.6%

  • Total voters
    211
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Nuwanda

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Nov 21, 2018
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Come on, it's not like you gave up a couple of top ten picks for Beams. The trade was two very late first rounders and a late third rounder for Beams and a couple of early third rounders. I wouldn't say you exactly broke the bank to get him back, in fact I'd say that's very close in value to what we are likely going to offer for Kelly, our first rounder this year and Sydney's early second round pick which we own.
I think Kelly is way better than Beams. He is younger, smooth, doesn’t have a major injury history and didn’t come out talking about his mental struggles before the trade.

I’d know who I would rather have picked up with 2 late first round picks.

Forget about picks, seriously, how good is Kelly?! Apart from Dangerfield, he would be Geelong’s best player imo. In fact, he would have to be up there in the best 10 midfielders in the comp right now. I’m sure this year and next years 1st would do it. It’s not as if you have too 10 picks. Probably a little more than what we paid for Beams.
 

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Nuwanda

All Australian
Nov 21, 2018
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Because Gold Coast are never going to win anything, and Kelly knows the same can be said for Fremantle?
We are talking GC 5 years ago when they were stacked with talent and Beams was in his prime as a 24 year old.

Anyway, good luck with it. I’m sure Geelong will realise in time losing a player like Kelly won’t be the end of the world, and they can continue to bring in some young talent.

DeGoey, Crisp and another 2nd round pick (used on Greenwood) worked well for us when we thought it was going to be the end of the world when Beams left.
 

Mr Casson

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Jun 27, 2008
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We are talking GC 5 years ago when they were stacked with talent and Beams was in his prime as a 24 year old.

Anyway, good luck with it. I’m sure Geelong will realise in time losing a player like Kelly won’t be the end of the world, and they can continue to bring in some young talent.

DeGoey, Crisp and another 2nd round pick (used on Greenwood) worked well for us when we thought it was going to be the end of the world when Beams left.
Have you met Geelong?
 

Godfather32

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I think Kelly is way better than Beams. He is younger, smooth, doesn’t have a major injury history and didn’t come out talking about his mental struggles before the trade.

I’d know who I would rather have picked up with 2 late first round picks.

Forget about picks, seriously, how good is Kelly?! Apart from Dangerfield, he would be Geelong’s best player imo. In fact, he would have to be up there in the best 10 midfielders in the comp right now. I’m sure this year and next years 1st would do it. It’s not as if you have too 10 picks. Probably a little more than what we paid for Beams.
I think Kelly is good but I don't think he's a top 10 mid and I don't think he's Geelong's second best player.
Not a massive difference between Sydney's second this year and our first next year (hopefully), very even draft this year and it depends if Geelong want to take a guy this year to start developing or if they want to wait another year.
 

DJMac

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Apr 24, 2015
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How many other players have gone this path?
Without doing any research I think it has been done twice. Luke Ball from Saints to Pies and Nick Stevens from Port to Blues.

I think it will happen more in the future. In both those cases other clubs stayed out of it and the players got to their desired clubs in the draft.
 

ThePuma #9

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Well lets hope he is coming and he does select us. if he does these are a few of the scenarios that might get it done.

WCE gain T.Kelly
GEE gain Pick 15, 22

WCE gain T.Kelly Pick 36
GEE gain Pick 15, 22, 32

WCE gain T.Kelly, pick 36
GEE gain pick 15, Future first round pick

WCE gain T.Kelly Future Second
Gee gain pick 15, Future first round pick

WCE gain T.Kelly Pick 54
GEE gain Pick 15, 22, 32

Best to worst is how i have listed them but i think it will be one of these outcomes.
 
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GWeagles

Team Captain
Sep 23, 2007
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Kelly is a big part of the 2020 puzzle. Will be a key to the transition from defence forward and help reduce the rebound into defence we suffer. And a major aid in the likely gap left by Willie (what a double act they would have been/may still be on Optus)
 

ChampRevesby

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Kelly is a big part of the 2020 puzzle. Will be a key to the transition from defence forward and help reduce the rebound into defence we suffer. And a major aid in the likely gap left by Willie (what a double act they would have been/may still be on Optus)
We jsut need another midfield rotation to help out Shuey, Yeo and Redden. Beyond those 3 we dont have many else.
 

kranky al

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Geelong had to give a top 10 pick for Danger, but most importantly wait for him to become a FA.

TK is a long way from being a FA. Circa 6 years. I'm not sure WC can get him if Geelong choose to retain him
The whole afl house of cards collapses the first time a player takes it to court.

They know that and will lean on a club to make a trade happen.

Thats how we got yeo for nothing thats why we had to give ebert up for nothing

Once a player has nominated a club the old club is royally screwed
 

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mick06

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GEELONG has sealed the Patrick Dangerfield trade with Adelaide.
The Cats have given up young midfielder Dean Gore as well as picks No.9 and No.28 to snare the superstar midfielder.
The Cats gain Dangerfield and Adelaide's third-round draft pick, currently No.50.
Gore was pick No.55 at the NAB AFL Draft



Look what they gave up for the greatest player ever to play football. Our first and second is adequate.
 

JEagle

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Jun 4, 2013
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GEELONG has sealed the Patrick Dangerfield trade with Adelaide.
The Cats have given up young midfielder Dean Gore as well as picks No.9 and No.28 to snare the superstar midfielder.
The Cats gain Dangerfield and Adelaide's third-round draft pick, currently No.50.
Gore was pick No.55 at the NAB AFL Draft



Look what they gave up for the greatest player ever to play football. Our first and second is adequate.

More than adequate. Keeping Brander should be a priority.

Shame we are one year behind in Venables development. Next step for him is increase strength and stamina and learning how to win more of the pill.
 

mick06

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I wouldn’t mind seeing this happen. Especially with others waiting in the wings for similar spots in defence - Watson for example
We are going to get rid of one perrenial HTB against specialist in Masto, id be happy to continue to develop duggan down back where he had shown he could make it
 

EagleEgo

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Jun 3, 2008
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We are going to get rid of one perrenial HTB against specialist in Masto, id be happy to continue to develop duggan down back where he had shown he could make it
Same as Yeo. We played him in the defence then back to the midfield. Duggan has the aggression and we need this aggression in the midfield. We are too soft in the middle at the moment.
 

MaxHunt

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Jun 2, 2006
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GEELONG has sealed the Patrick Dangerfield trade with Adelaide.
The Cats have given up young midfielder Dean Gore as well as picks No.9 and No.28 to snare the superstar midfielder.
The Cats gain Dangerfield and Adelaide's third-round draft pick, currently No.50.
Gore was pick No.55 at the NAB AFL Draft



Look what they gave up for the greatest player ever to play football. Our first and second is adequate.
Hmmm nice quote.

So Gore and pick 50 basically cancel each other out so 9 and 28. 15 and 22 should do the job based on that.
 

JDWCE

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Same as Yeo. We played him in the defence then back to the midfield. Duggan has the aggression and we need this aggression in the midfield. We are too soft in the middle at the moment.
Added aggression and another rotation. Couldn’t hurt. I still have very fond memories of him playing in the middle against Freo and tearing them a new one (in his second season I think). We have Watson, Cole and Rotham in the wings who have all looked more than capable at AFL level
 

mick06

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Same as Yeo. We played him in the defence then back to the midfield. Duggan has the aggression and we need this aggression in the midfield. We are too soft in the middle at the moment.
Yeos issue was considered production and footy smarts though. He had shown all the other tricks.
Duggan is not quick / agile, not great at breaking a tackle and his kicking is average at best. Im placing him in the Shep category - could still be a very important and serviceable player for us, just in the back 6
 

Godfather32

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Added aggression and another rotation. Couldn’t hurt. I still have very fond memories of him playing in the middle against Freo and tearing them a new one (in his second season I think). We have Watson, Cole and Rotham in the wings who have all looked more than capable at AFL level
I have a weird feeling Cole will be traded, not really based on anything, just a feeling.
 

beatlesmith

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Same as Yeo. We played him in the defence then back to the midfield. Duggan has the aggression and we need this aggression in the midfield. We are too soft in the middle at the moment.
I disagree. One of our biggest issues is that we seriously lack contested ball winners in our forward and back lines, allowing opposition teams to lock the ball in our backline and stream out of our forward line. We have too many players who get by picking up 5-12 touches a game.
That's the trade-off when we play so many talls and specialists like Jetta, Ryan and Petch. Fundamentally, it's the main reason why we're bottom of the league for stats like post-clearance ground ball gets and why we can find ourselves being overrun against teams that play tough, contested footy.
We need to prioritise having more ball winners on those lines. Duggan is one of them, and I loathe to move him up the ground and make the issue worse.
Kelly in place of Masten would help the midfield, as will more footy from Naita. The other lines concern me more.
 

EagleEgo

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I disagree. One of our biggest issues is that we seriously lack contested ball winners in our forward and back lines, allowing opposition teams to lock the ball in our backline and stream out of our forward line. We have too many players who get by picking up 5-12 touches a game.
That's the trade-off when we play so many talls and specialists like Jetta, Ryan and Petch. Fundamentally, it's the main reason why we're bottom of the league for stats like post-clearance ground ball gets and why we can find ourselves being overrun against teams that play tough, contested footy.
We need to prioritise having more ball winners on those lines. Duggan is one of them, and I loathe to move him up the ground and make the issue worse.
Kelly in place of Masten would help the midfield, as will more footy from Naita. The other lines concern me more.
I dont quite understand your arguement.
You agree Duggan is a ball winner and we need more ball winners in the midfield. However, you then say moving Duggan to the midfield make it worse. Bear in mind, Rotham, Watson - all these guys in waiting are capable ball winning defender too.
At the moment, our defence is under siege because of the fact that our midfield is playing touch football. We need to defend a lot earlier in the forward half.
Also, we need more good midfielders than just 1 Tim Kelly.
 
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beatlesmith

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I dont quite understand your arguement.
You agree Duggan is a ball winner and we need more ball winners in the midfield. However, you then say moving Duggan to the midfield make it worse. Bear in mind, Rotham, Watson - all these guys in waiting are capable ball winning defender too.
At the moment, our defence is under siege because of the fact that our midfield is playing touch football. We need to defend a lot earlier in the forward half.
Also, we need more good midfielders than just 1 Tim Kelly.
What I'm saying is that our ball winning issues are actually more prevalent in our forward and back lines than in our midfield. Accordingly, we ought to prioritise playing ball winners on those lines rather than concentrate all of our decent ball winners in the midfield.

We were 7th in the league for clearances but 18th for contested possessions. That tells you that the midfield is decent at getting the ball out (largely in Naitanui's absence, no less) but that the rest of the team struggles to win contested ball.

A midfield of Yeo, Shuey, Kelly, Gaff, Sheed, Redden and Naitanui is a good contested ball unit. The absence of good ball winners on the other lines hurts us, because it's not just the midfielders that have to be responsible for winning contests. Our prime movers can't be at the foot of every marking contest around the ground.

In what universe are Rotham and Watson ball winners? Spare me.

The other issues with "Duggan to the midfield" are:
1) He's not a good midfielder and generally struggles to accumulate the football; and
2) We don't have room in the midfield to play him, particularly in circumstances where we trade for Tim Kelly.
 
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