List Mgmt. The Kelly and All Draft and Trades Discussion Thread- #freetim #ITSHAPPENING

What will we pay for Kelly?

  • 2019 1st, future 2020 1st and 2nd for Kelly and their 2020 2nd

    Votes: 41 19.4%
  • 2019 1st and future 2020 1st

    Votes: 99 46.9%
  • 2019 1st plus a player e.g. Petrucelle, Brander

    Votes: 36 17.1%
  • 4th rounder and Kurt Mutimer

    Votes: 35 16.6%

  • Total voters
    211
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EagleEgo

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Why do you say that? Contracts expire before the ND. Luke Ball went in the ND.
My wish and his choice! Also depends on whether his contract expires before the deadline of national draft nomination date.
PSD is designed for this situation and will be more benefitial to WCE
 
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Bestbird

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Not a fan of involving next years 1st either due to the risk of next year going pear shaped for whatever reason

Still think our current 13 & 22 is close to the mark given he is uncontracted. Neale who was contracted went for 6 & 19 with pick 30 going back to the Lions
 

Tugga27

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Unless we really think we're top 4 again next year I'm pretty uncomfortable with next year's first.

I've said it before but my opinion hasn't changed. Tell Geelong we're happy to give them 14, and if they don't want it we'll use it in the draft because we think he'll be there. Maybe a little sweetener gets the deal done from there but not another first rounder.
There's no reason why we shouldn't be aiming for top 4 next year.
We just missed out this year.

Kelly is a premier goal kicking midfielder who would make a huge
difference to our team. They don't come about that often, especially
for WA sides.

Picks 14 and 23 should get it done.
 

Doashuey

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Yes, they do have a choice. Take it or leave it.
Of course, their decision will be based on their decision criteria and our decision will based on a different sets of criteria.
Any pick higher than pick 24, Geelong gain a profit, we make a loss. If Geelong is not accepting pick 24, then the next next question is : what are they going to do?
In answering your question "If they don't have a choice, why not offer them pick 77?", pick 77 is at the extreme low end and Geelong can afford to say no. However, Pick 24 reflects Kelly‘s original draft pick value and Geelong can pick a good player with this pick this year.

Please note that buying too high for Kelly as a player has no benefit for you and me as Eagles‘ supporters, though i understand this is only a healthy football forum discussion without inside information of what both the WCE and Geelong planned to do.

Also we cannot afford to give up pick 13 as it enable us to pick up Luke Jackson who will be an elite tall in the next couple of years.
It wont happen like that. We have shown last year a willingness to give up multiple high draft picks for Kelly. He has improved his value since then.
Pick 24 is way under his value, we know it and Geelong know it. Our recruiting and trading team dont act like arseholes if the past is anything to go by. Refusing to give up anything greater than pick 24 would be seen as being an a-hole. In fact if thats what we did it would not surprise me if Kelly said FU WC, Cats- take the Freo deal- they value me. Dont for a minute think that Kelly hates Geelong. He might not like the distance from WA but he would like the blokes he has played footy with for the past 2 years and wouldn't want to be part of a deal that sees them get ripped off.
We will offer a fair deal that would involve a RD 1 plus some.
 

Mr Casson

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There's no reason why we shouldn't be aiming for top 4 next year.
We just missed out this year.

Kelly is a premier goal kicking midfielder who would make a huge
difference to our team. They don't come about that often, especially
for WA sides.

Picks 14 and 23 should get it done.
13 and 23 I guess is OK (I miswrote that we had 14 in my last post, forgot that us losing and GWS winning bumped us up). If that gets it done then so be it.

I can't see us bottoming out next year but if we end up with another pick around 10 I'll be pretty upset about that. I just don't think we need to go anywhere that price this year.
 

Forward Press

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My view is that this year’s and next year’s first is par. Anything better than that and I’ll be happy, if we pay more than that then I’ll be pi**ed.
Yeah, this.

We're not talking about some speculative kid here or someone on the wrong side of 30. This is a 27 year old midfielder that would have an immediate impact on our fortunes. We are not rebuilding, we are attempting to extract another premiership out of the list. Two first rounders could get it done and I'd be okay with that - draft picks are never sure things, but Tim Kelly is.
 

06Premiers

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Yeah, this.

We're not talking about some speculative kid here or someone on the wrong side of 30. This is a 27 year old midfielder that would have an immediate impact on our fortunes. We are not rebuilding, we are attempting to extract another premiership out of the list. Two first rounders could get it done and I'd be okay with that - draft picks are never sure things, but Tim Kelly is.
Even better, Kelly only turned 25 in July.
 

kranky al

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Behind the scenes the dockers and eagles would talk - we are going to get go homes regularly - it makes no sense for freo to screw us over when a year or so later we can just do the same back to them.

Id be just about certain wed have a gentlemans agreement that if a player nominates one or the other club - the non nominated club stays out of it.

We just push up prices for the both of us if we do.


There is sfa to gain by being competitive about it and lots to gain by not.
 

EagleEgo

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It wont happen like that. We have shown last year a willingness to give up multiple high draft picks for Kelly. He has improved his value since then.
Pick 24 is way under his value, we know it and Geelong know it. Our recruiting and trading team dont act like arseholes if the past is anything to go by. Refusing to give up anything greater than pick 24 would be seen as being an a-hole. In fact if thats what we did it would not surprise me if Kelly said FU WC, Cats- take the Freo deal- they value me. Dont for a minute think that Kelly hates Geelong. He might not like the distance from WA but he would like the blokes he has played footy with for the past 2 years and wouldn't want to be part of a deal that sees them get ripped off.
We will offer a fair deal that would involve a RD 1 plus some.
I heard what you said.
However, business run under competitive environment should not be operating in such a way if we want to be successful.
We should consider how much we can afford and what is the best value for money (in this case it is the draft picks). We should maximise the use of our limited draft picks.
We all have a different ways of calculating Kelly‘s values. His values can go ups and downs with time. Certainly, his instantenous yearly salary should shoot up, but I doubt about his pick value based on his need to come home and being uncontracted. Pick 24 in 2017, two years in carreer life expectancy gone. Pick value should come down rather than up (we are generous enough to compensate Geelong with the same pick value).
By the way, what were we willing to pay last year? I dont think it have ever been disclosed. From memory, pick 20 was mentioned?! (my memory might not be good though).

AFL would not compensate us with a pick 4 or higher if Gaff ended up leaving us through FA last year. It can be served as an indication of what an elite player worth as seen by AFL.
 
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suntagonal

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I heard what you said.
However, business run under competitive environment should not be operating in such a way if we want to be successful.
We should consider how much we can afford and what is the best value for money (in this case it is the draft picks). We should maximise the use of our limited draft picks.
We all have a different ways of calculating Kelly‘s values. His values can go ups and downs with time. Certainly, his instantenous yearly salary should shoot up, but I doubt about his pick value based on his need to come home and being uncontracted. Pick 24 in 2017, two years in carreer life expectancy gone. Pick value should come down rather than up (we are generous enough to compensate Geelong with the same pick value).
By the way, what were we willing to pay last year? I dont think it have ever been disclosed. From memory, pick 20 was mentioned?! (my memory might not be good though).
I'm pretty sure it was confirmed to be 20+22. Can't recall whether the extra 2019 2nd rnd pick was confirmed.

But to counter your argument about being run under competitive, I think there is some merit in dealing in good faith. If we didn't, I can't imagine that Sydney would have done the pick swap with us (which turned out quite well for us).

For instance, the notoriously bad to deal with (lets say the Bombers) would have a negative connotation with their brand and therefore would not attract even a possibility of such a deal.
 

EagleEgo

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I'm pretty sure it was confirmed to be 20+22. Can't recall whether the extra 2019 2nd rnd pick was confirmed.

But to counter your argument about being run under competitive, I think there is some merit in dealing in good faith. If we didn't, I can't imagine that Sydney would have done the pick swap with us (which turned out quite well for us).

For instance, the notoriously bad to deal with (lets say the Bombers) would have a negative connotation with their brand and therefore would not attract even a possibility of such a deal.
I think Sydney‘s example is not related as we are helping them to start with.
We all have different ways of running a business. Some might donate a lot of money to charity, some might adopt a "profit maximising" model.
Why are we not compensate enough for Scott Selwood ? What have Geelong done about what you called "good faith"? This is part of the game in this competetive environment.
I am quite sure Geelong knew we were going to pick Tim Kelly in 2017. Why the "good faith" did not exist? It is because this is a competition and all clubs are competing under rules and creative ideas.
 

ziad

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There's no reason why we shouldn't be aiming for top 4 next year.
We just missed out this year.

Kelly is a premier goal kicking midfielder who would make a huge
difference to our team. They don't come about that often, especially
for WA sides.

Picks 14 and 23 should get it done.
Sounds ok.

But, to be the devils advocate he was quiet against the Pies in a losing midfield. Interesting to see how he goes against the Tigers - who I expect will win. Is he made to look better by the company he keeps or is he a winner?
 

suntagonal

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I think Sydney‘s example is not related as we are helping them to start with.
We all have different ways of running a business. Some might donate a lot of money to charity, some might adopt a "profit maximising" model.
Why are we not compensate enough for Scott Selwood ? What have Geelong done about what you called "good faith"? This is part of the game in this competetive environment.
I am quite sure Geelong knew we were going to pick Tim Kelly in 2017. Why the "good faith" did not exist? It is because this is a competition and all clubs are competing under rules and creative ideas.
The Sydney example is related at least obliquely. If we didn't have such a reputation, I'd say they would have gone to any other team who would have just as easily helped them out. It is because we have such a reputation that they sought us out/agreed with us to such a swap. It worked out for both teams actually. It was a situation where it was win/win... not 'we were helping them out'. Any team could have helped them out, in fact they probably could have gone to a team that was more likely to drop down the ladder so their pick wasn't going to be as bad.

The trade period comes around every year, and so the actions and reputation generated for one year are not only isolated to said year. This reputation is what led to the Sydney trade

I know I prefer the trade dealings of West Coast as compared to other teams (Essendon). I'd also say that these deals reflect on how a team views their players.
 

EagleEgo

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The Sydney example is related at least obliquely. If we didn't have such a reputation, I'd say they would have gone to any other team who would have just as easily helped them out. It is because we have such a reputation that they sought us out/agreed with us to such a swap. It worked out for both teams actually. It was a situation where it was win/win... not 'we were helping them out'. Any team could have helped them out, in fact they probably could have gone to a team that was more likely to drop down the ladder so their pick wasn't going to be as bad.

The trade period comes around every year, and so the actions and reputation generated for one year are not only isolated to said year. This reputation is what led to the Sydney trade

I know I prefer the trade dealings of West Coast as compared to other teams (Essendon). I'd also say that these deals reflect on how a team views their players.
So you think it was not ex NM friends helping each other?
Networking does come in different form.
You dont have to donate your only house to charity in order to be a faithful citizen.
 

Max zero

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Not a fan of involving next years 1st either due to the risk of next year going pear shaped for whatever reason

Still think our current 13 & 22 is close to the mark given he is uncontracted. Neale who was contracted went for 6 & 19 with pick 30 going back to the Lions
On the other hand next years draft will be heavily comprimised with bidding and father son picks.

If we add Tim Kelly to our list I would be backing us to have a pretty good shot of at least having a decent year.
 

JADED

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Why are we not compensate enough for Scott Selwood ? What have Geelong done about what you called "good faith"? This is part of the game in this competetive environment.
Some considered the Vardy trade for a token pick to even it up a little.
I doubt Selwood was even thought about in negotiations but it shows, you win some, you lose some. A banged up Vardy helped us win a flag, a banged up Scott Selwood isn't currently in Geelong's best 22. (And Vardy not in ours, but G.F erases that)
 

EagleEgo

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Some considered the Vardy trade for a token pick to even it up a little.
I doubt Selwood was even thought about in negotiations but it shows, you win some, you lose some. A banged up Vardy helped us win a flag, a banged up Scott Selwood isn't currently in Geelong's best 22. (And Vardy not in ours, but G.F erases that)
At the end it is a buy and sell transaction. There are estimated values, costs, and risks involved from both parties.
About Scott Selwood‘s case, WCE was angry about the compensation.

 

Deplorable trumpster

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No news is good news concerning the dearth of articles and commentary coming out of Melbourne talking about Freo seeking meetings or making offers to Geelong/Kelly. If there was even a hint of that going o behind the scenes they would not hesitate to carry on about and blow it up in an effort to help Geelong and their bargaining position. But we are hearing nothing. Which hopefully means that Freo are not interested in wasting their time getting involved in this just to be used as leverage by Geelong.
 
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