The key to beating Brisbane

Warwick

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Feb 17, 2006
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For all those opposition scouts out there, I am going to give away the secret to beating us:

Kick a behind.

You will get a shot on goal 20 seconds later, more or less in front. :mad:

I thought we played very well for the majority of the night and the signs are there, but FFS we struggle to find 2 consecutive targets kicking out after a behind. It is a major pet hate of mine. We have been the worst side in the comp clearing the ball from defense for a couple of years but nothing has changed. We kick it to a man in the pocket and then can't go any further. Someone pick the ****ing thing up after a behind and get it in quickly.

The worse thing is opposition teams clear it from their kick-ins so easily against us.

I reckon we conceeded about 20 points tonight due directly from turning it over after a kick-in.
 

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LIONS then DAYLIGHT

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Agree.

Has been the case for the last season or 2.

Drummond out doesn't help.

But maybe we should trying something different, maybe we should huddle, used to love seeing Chris Johnson do those raking passes from the kick in and then we'd be away.

Remember that crusie missle he let go in the 2004 Grand Final to Tim Notting who then went to Brown.

Great bit of play that.
 

Cousin Jed

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I recorded every result from a kick in (both teams) from midway through the 2nd Warwick. I'll post the results later.

(Yes its tragic I know)
 

Kochie 16

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I miss Drummond, His long 60+ meter pin point passes from the kick-ins.

Was it just me or was that Merret's worst game in a long time?
 

luthor

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As far as I'm concerned, our supporters behind the goals are far too polite and obliging...every time we kicked a point, the pill rebounded out of the crowd like a pinball.

When they kicked one at the eastern end in the last quarter (where a bank of Hawk supporters were), Luke Power tried to get it back fast ....but guess what?.... no deal...the ball stayed in the crowd.

He eventually had to go and get the "Spare" from the bottom of the fence near the behind post.

Come on you Lions supporters behind the posts...get with the programme;)
 

Cousin Jed

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So I started writing down what happened after both sides kick ins from Midway through the 2nd. Results up until the next stoppage or turnover.

I missed the first 7, but with what Brennan was doing it with it, presume ugly.

We had after taking our kick ins

1 goal
1 Throw in on Half Forward Flank (about 80 out)
1 Throw in on Centre Wing
1 ballup at Half Back (60 out)
3 Turnovers on the 2nd kick (Stiller, Stiller, Selwood - I think)
1 Out on Full Back Pocket (1st kick - Merrett - Hawks Goal)

Hawthorns kick ins went

2 Balls inside 50 (1 Behind, 1 free against Franklin)
3 throw ins on Half Forward Flank (55, 70, 75 out)
1 Throw in on Centre Wing
3 Turnovers on Centre Wing ( all from the 3rd kick - as opposed to ours on the 2nd)
1 Ball up at Half Back (60 out)
1 Out On Full on Wing (I think it was the 3rd kick)
 

EurekaKid

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We have failed to adapt to the law change, I think the same can be said of the centre square ruck. Drummond certainly helps, but we need to go beyond that. Move quickly, work for each other and then maybe we will see us running and carrying the ball further up the ground rather than the stagnant bullshit that plagues us. We don't have the skill level or decision making to play a chipping game, we turn it over far too much. We look so pretty when we are playing on and moving the ball.
 

Warwick

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We had after taking our kick ins

1 goal
1 Throw in on Half Forward Flank (about 80 out)
1 Throw in on Centre Wing
1 ballup at Half Back (60 out)
3 Turnovers on the 2nd kick (Stiller, Stiller, Selwood - I think)
1 Out on Full Back Pocket (1st kick - Merrett - Hawks Goal)
Good stuff Jed. :thumbsu:

You could cut and paste that for every game we have played in the past 2.5 years. It's all good for Drummond to come back and nail it down the corridor, but our 2nd kick is still not finding a target.

It's been a long, long time since we have gone from end to end.
 

luthor

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So I started writing down what happened after both sides kick ins from Midway through the 2nd. Results up until the next stoppage or turnover.

I missed the first 7, but with what Brennan was doing it with it, presume ugly.

We had after taking our kick ins

1 goal
1 Throw in on Half Forward Flank (about 80 out)
1 Throw in on Centre Wing
1 ballup at Half Back (60 out)
3 Turnovers on the 2nd kick (Stiller, Stiller, Selwood - I think)
1 Out on Full Back Pocket (1st kick - Merrett - Hawks Goal)

Hawthorns kick ins went

2 Balls inside 50 (1 Behind, 1 free against Franklin)
3 throw ins on Half Forward Flank (55, 70, 75 out)
1 Throw in on Centre Wing
3 Turnovers on Centre Wing ( all from the 3rd kick - as oppossed to ours on the 2nd)
1 Ball up at Half Back (60 out)
1 Out On Full on Wing (I think it was the 3rd kick)
Basic analysis from all that...kick-ins cost us a net 2 goals.....the margin at the end of the game:mad:
 

LIONS then DAYLIGHT

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THe problem in this situation is to me not about players or what not, its about the coaches and the tactics with this facet of the game.

These days the kick ins are seen as a great chance at launching a set move and associated attack.

I think we should use the huddle to create space and try and generate some run, sides know that our kick ins can be used against us, we need to change our tactics and the buck here starts with the coach, Matthews has to try something.
 

mr_cellotape

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I think we should use the huddle to create space and try and generate some run, sides know that our kick ins can be used against us, we need to change our tactics and the buck here starts with the coach, Matthews has to try something.
Something would be better than the nothing that we're doing at the moment. As Warwick said, our getting out of defense has been a problem for a while, but tonite was absolutely ridiculous.

The main thing is a lack of movement. When the Hawks had their kick-ins, yes they were very quick about it, but the important thing was that their players were creating something. All night our guys seemed to just stand there. This problem is magnified by having the likes of 'deer in the headlights' Merritt and MacDonald being given the kick-in duties. This, coupled with Power and Brennan producing turnover after turnover after turnover out of defensive 50... it was brutal to watch. Amazing that we lost by so little considering the disparity between the teams in terms of their ability to get out of defense.
 

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FFB1

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I miss Drummond, His long 60+ meter pin point passes from the kick-ins.

Was it just me or was that Merret's worst game in a long time?
Without doubt Kochie, that was Merretts worst game we've seen in quite some time - and I'm not talking about the fact Buddy gave him a towellling - I'm talking his general decision making and disposal. Between him and Brennan Hawthorn kicked 3 or 4 goals from either shocking disposal or a decision that led to a turnover (ie put next man put under pressure). Twice at least Merrett handballed it to a player who more or less was tackled as soon as he got it. I'd be interested to see how many handballs we have in our back 50 - we pissfart around with it way too much.

Every time Brennan puts the ball in one hand and takes off there is a 50/50 chance of the ball being turned over.

This is a defence that conceded the fewest points in the last half of season 2007. We were missing Drummond last season so we cant use that one.

Because we turn it over so easily around the half back flank we're always caught behind on the oppositions rebound - hell, I'd rather turn it over at CHF then we've got some chance of getting back to defend. The only option we've got is going long (when was the last time we saw a kick in go over 50m?) but once again we dont seem to have the in and under brigade that position themselves at the drop of the ball.
 

Crimso

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As far as I'm concerned, our supporters behind the goals are far too polite and obliging...every time we kicked a point, the pill rebounded out of the crowd like a pinball.

When they kicked one at the eastern end in the last quarter (where a bank of Hawk supporters were), Luke Power tried to get it back fast ....but guess what?.... no deal...the ball stayed in the crowd.

He eventually had to go and get the "Spare" from the bottom of the fence near the behind post.

Come on you Lions supporters behind the posts...get with the programme;)
And to delay further, when they then have the replacement ball throw the game ball onto the field into the pocket. Once the game ball has been returned they have to swap from the replacement, taking more time for us to reset.
 

notting18

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To be honest, I reckon we're missing Adcock on the Half Back Flank, we miss his rebounding off the 50.
I think this is why Leigh waited until Round 14 to make the change for Adcock into the middle. (I think he said the "robbing peter to pay paul" analogy) However, when Drummond was in full flight Adcock was able to move into the middle and at the moment he is a lot more useful in the guts in my opinion.
 

JasRulz63

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Probably is, but we are getting killed the second kick out of defence, no-one is willing to run and break the lines to force the issue, instead just chipping it around.
 

Chasing the Dream

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As far as I'm concerned, our supporters behind the goals are far too polite and obliging...every time we kicked a point, the pill rebounded out of the crowd like a pinball.

When they kicked one at the eastern end in the last quarter (where a bank of Hawk supporters were), Luke Power tried to get it back fast ....but guess what?.... no deal...the ball stayed in the crowd.

He eventually had to go and get the "Spare" from the bottom of the fence near the behind post.

Come on you Lions supporters behind the posts...get with the programme;)
And to delay further, when they then have the replacement ball throw the game ball onto the field into the pocket. Once the game ball has been returned they have to swap from the replacement, taking more time for us to reset.
I too noticed this last night. It happened on more than one occasion that is for sure.

They must have changed the rulles on using the spare ball, as it used to be that as soon as the ball went over the fence you could use the spare ball, I remember Chris Johnson lurking near the bag when opposition players were lining up for goal.

The time we take with our kicks ins would rank up there with the longest in the AFL, with or without Drummond we have seemed to struggle a bit. We also seem to go to Brennan on a large proportion of those delayed kick ins, or maybe it just feels like it??
 

Grimreepah

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It seems like we don't really have a designated kicker and basically anyone and everyone is having a go, even when the defensive zone is set.

I remember Chris Johnson lurking near the bag when opposition players were lining up for goal.
Is there a law against a non-player hovering near the bag and feeding the kicker a spare whenever a behind is kicked?
 

LionKing

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For all those opposition scouts out there, I am going to give away the secret to beating us:
Kick a behind.

You will get a shot on goal 20 seconds later, more or less in front. :mad:

I thought we played very well for the majority of the night and the signs are there, but FFS we struggle to find 2 consecutive targets kicking out after a behind. It is a major pet hate of mine. We have been the worst side in the comp clearing the ball from defense for a couple of years but nothing has changed. We kick it to a man in the pocket and then can't go any further. Someone pick the ****ing thing up after a behind and get it in quickly.

The worse thing is opposition teams clear it from their kick-ins so easily against us.

I reckon we conceeded about 20 points tonight due directly from turning it over after a kick-in.



Spot on! Every side concedes the first kick in so they can set up their zone defence and this is where the Lions STOP. The Lions lack of run and ball movement from defence play into the hands of the opposition because the opposition can then push numbers forward to increase the pressure.

On the occasions when the Lions did penetrate the defensive zone, they looked really dangerous. The likes of Adcock, Rishchi, Hopper and Corrie breaking the lines had the Lions running in waves and was beautiful to watch.

IMO, I believe we need the half forwards and the defensive midfielders presenting more across the middle of the ground and handing the ball off to the runners who are already looking upfield. Given Browny's poor performace last night he should have played on the wing and demanded the ball (a la Mathew Richardson). I recall one passage of play where Browny took a mark on the wing/half forward and handed the ball off to a running player who in turn popped it on the chest of Bradshaw.

MAJOR NEGATIVE:
Brennan's kicking from defence and Merretts decision making killed us. Both players looked out of sorts. They both lacked penetration in their kicking and handballing and their decision making was dreadful. Brennan needs space to weave his magic and in last nights tight and tough contest he got found out on several occasions. Both players are great kids and they will bounce back.

MAJOR POSITIVE:
The hawks fielded their strongest team last night and the Lions matched them pound for pound. The difference in the end was their better skill and finish for goal which is understandable given we had 10 players with under 50 games experience on the field last night. The Lions are heading in the right direction.
 

Tim the Toolman

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How many kickins did Johnstone take?

My Melbourne-supporting family friends tell me that whenever he had a kick-in at Melbourne, they had a goal kicked on them from it!
 

Cousin Jed

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I did write that down. I think it was TJ 2, JMac 3, Merrett 2, Brennan 1 of the 8 that I recorded.

But I'd have to double check that.
 

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