The Kids

[Spuddd]

There's no doubt that C-19 affected a lot of kids last year and has impacted their first year of football.

Unfortunately, that's not going to stop the next wave of kids coming through this year, next and so on and so forth.

On average, the club brings in around 3 kids a year, usually with at least one of them making the grade - that's one less spot available for the likes of Henry, Mccrae, Rantall to take as time goes on.

Its not fair, but its a reality.

 

[jackcass]

Interesting that of all the kids, the coaches chose Henry as the first debutant. We know that hasn't worked out - yet - but it’s indicative of where the kids were ranked before the season started. And of our need for true forwards.

Article inThe Age today about Brad Scott’s new AFL role in supporting community/local footy in Victoria. Goes to the impacts of a whole season lost last year. I don’t think we should underestimate the effects of missing a year of development for the Victorian draftees. These kids will need extra time.

I think Bianco was in the mix early as well until he hurt his knee.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

On average, the club brings in around 3 kids a year, usually with at least one of them making the grade - that's one less spot available for the likes of Henry, Mccrae, Rantall to take as time goes on.

Its not fair, but its a reality.

But it’s only the kids making way if they don’t make the grade after multiple seasons. In the meantime we have players like Cox, Greenwood, Mayne, Madgen etc. who are going to be let go far sooner than Henry, Macrae and Rantall.

On Henry specifically, he’s been poor at AFL level but he’ll make the grade. In his 3rd VFL game, as a skinny 18yo, coming off the back of no football the year before, he had 22 possessions, 13 marks and kicked 3.3. You just don’t do that so soon in your career against open competition unless you have talent.

Same with Macrae averaging 25 or so possessions in the VFL, straight off the bat. He needs to develop physically a bit more and improve his tank, but he’ll soon be improving his kick-to-handball ratio and getting that disposal count into the 30’s. Then he’ll come into the senior side and never leave.

 

[jackcass]

I would personally change it to
Good players or better
- C.Poulter
- T.Bianco

Solid contributers
- N.Murphy
- B.McCreery

Need to see more/Unsure
- F.Macrae
- J.Rantall
- O.Henry
- M.Keane
- W.Kelly
- T.Brown
- Other players drafted in the past 12 months who are yet to play

looking unlikely
- T.Wilson
- A.Tohill
- T.Ruscoe

These players are very young. To say looking unlikely to guys like Macrae, Hery & Rantall after 5 or less games is ridiculous.

Yet Ruscoe is still only 19 with 7 games under his belt.... Tohill only 21 with 0 games and a convert from another sport who in his 3 seasons has been trialed forward, midfield and in defence... Wilson looks the most accomplished of the lot at VFL level...

 

[Scratchy05]

Yet Ruscoe is still only 19 with 7 games under his belt.... Tohill only 21 with 0 games and a convert from another sport who in his 3 seasons has been trialed forward, midfield and in defence... Wilson looks the most accomplished of the lot at VFL level...

My logic is that I have yet to see Ruscoe even play decently. He is always the bottom 2 on the ground when he plays. He could still make it but he is very much looking unlikely. I'd suggest a move to defence could help him. Tohill is a wildcard but the fact Keane has looked much better in the VFL and has played AFL games, yet Tohill can't even be an emergency speaks volumes. Wilson, while currently the best of all 3, is 24 and I wasn't too impressed with him in his debut games. If he was 20 or 21, he would be in the unknowns section but due to him being 24, I'd say he is unlikely to make it.

 

[Jen2310]

I'd suggest a move to defence could help him.

And that's where he played in the last couple VFL games I saw. He looked so much more natural than up forward.

 

[Scratchy05]

And that's where he played in the last couple VFL games I saw. He looked so much more natural than up forward.

Well if that works out, good for him. It is a needed move because besides his first game, he has shown below 0 as a forward

 

[domin8tors]

I appreciate the effort but perhaps lets repost in 3 years time.
just to put this thread in perspective lets look at the following debuts and all were too skinny / no pace / no skills / too small yada yada yada

Andrew McLeod v Melbourne at Football Park, round six, 1995

Stats overview: One kick, three handballs, two tackles


Jonathan Brown v Adelaide at the Gabba, round five, 2000

Stats overview: Zero kicks, zero handballs, one tackle


Kade Simpson v Geelong at Docklands, round 11, 2003

Stats overview: Zero disposals, two tackles, one clanger


Jobe Watson v Geelong at Docklands Stadium (now Marvel Stadium) round 13, 2003

Stats overview: Two handballs, zero kicks, two tackles


Nat Fyfe v Richmond at Subiaco Oval, round five, 2010

Stats overview: 13 disposals, two tackles, one goal, four behinds


Matthew Scarlett v Essendon at MCG, round 22, 1998

Stats overview: Six disposals, two marks and one tackle, conceding six goals against Matthew Lloyd


Jack Martin v Richmond at Metricon Stadium, round one, 2014

Stats overview: Zero kicks, three handballs, zero marks


Jeremy Cameron v Sydney at ANZ Stadium, round one, 2012

Stats overview: Eight disposals, five marks, no goals


Sam Mitchell v Richmond at the MCG, round five, 2002

Stats overview: Four disposals, four tackles


Brent Harvey v Richmond at the MCG, round 22, 1996

Stats overview: One handball


Nick Riewoldt v Adelaide at Docklands Stadium (now Marvel Stadium), round 15, 2001

Stats overview: Three disposals, one mark, no goals

 

[Soups]

I appreciate the effort but perhaps lets repost in 3 years time.
just to put this thread in perspective lets look at the following debuts and all were too skinny / no pace / no skills / too small yada yada yada

Andrew McLeod v Melbourne at Football Park, round six, 1995

Stats overview: One kick, three handballs, two tackles


Jonathan Brown v Adelaide at the Gabba, round five, 2000

Stats overview: Zero kicks, zero handballs, one tackle


Kade Simpson v Geelong at Docklands, round 11, 2003

Stats overview: Zero disposals, two tackles, one clanger


Jobe Watson v Geelong at Docklands Stadium (now Marvel Stadium) round 13, 2003

Stats overview: Two handballs, zero kicks, two tackles


Nat Fyfe v Richmond at Subiaco Oval, round five, 2010

Stats overview: 13 disposals, two tackles, one goal, four behinds


Matthew Scarlett v Essendon at MCG, round 22, 1998

Stats overview: Six disposals, two marks and one tackle, conceding six goals against Matthew Lloyd


Jack Martin v Richmond at Metricon Stadium, round one, 2014

Stats overview: Zero kicks, three handballs, zero marks


Jeremy Cameron v Sydney at ANZ Stadium, round one, 2012

Stats overview: Eight disposals, five marks, no goals


Sam Mitchell v Richmond at the MCG, round five, 2002

Stats overview: Four disposals, four tackles


Brent Harvey v Richmond at the MCG, round 22, 1996

Stats overview: One handball


Nick Riewoldt v Adelaide at Docklands Stadium (now Marvel Stadium), round 15, 2001

Stats overview: Three disposals, one mark, no goals

Pretty sure Kade Simpson had donuts in his second game too. Went on to play a couple of games haha.

 

[domin8tors]

Pretty sure Kade Simpson had donuts in his second game too. Went on to play a couple of games haha.

and donuts have followed the club since his debut LOL zzzz

 

[Spuddd]

I appreciate the effort but perhaps lets repost in 3 years time.
just to put this thread in perspective lets look at the following debuts and all were too skinny / no pace / no skills / too small yada yada yada

Andrew McLeod v Melbourne at Football Park, round six, 1995

Stats overview: One kick, three handballs, two tackles


Jonathan Brown v Adelaide at the Gabba, round five, 2000

Stats overview: Zero kicks, zero handballs, one tackle


Kade Simpson v Geelong at Docklands, round 11, 2003

Stats overview: Zero disposals, two tackles, one clanger


Jobe Watson v Geelong at Docklands Stadium (now Marvel Stadium) round 13, 2003

Stats overview: Two handballs, zero kicks, two tackles


Nat Fyfe v Richmond at Subiaco Oval, round five, 2010

Stats overview: 13 disposals, two tackles, one goal, four behinds


Matthew Scarlett v Essendon at MCG, round 22, 1998

Stats overview: Six disposals, two marks and one tackle, conceding six goals against Matthew Lloyd


Jack Martin v Richmond at Metricon Stadium, round one, 2014

Stats overview: Zero kicks, three handballs, zero marks


Jeremy Cameron v Sydney at ANZ Stadium, round one, 2012

Stats overview: Eight disposals, five marks, no goals


Sam Mitchell v Richmond at the MCG, round five, 2002

Stats overview: Four disposals, four tackles


Brent Harvey v Richmond at the MCG, round 22, 1996

Stats overview: One handball


Nick Riewoldt v Adelaide at Docklands Stadium (now Marvel Stadium), round 15, 2001

Stats overview: Three disposals, one mark, no goals

With all due respect, your comparing apples and oranges, the only player on that list that is comparable is Jack Martin.

Evryone else is either a Key Position Player or debuted more than 10 years ago, when the game was verry different.

 

[domin8tors]

With all due respect, your comparing apples and oranges, the only player on that list that is comparable is Jack Martin.

Evryone else is either a Key Position Player or debuted more than 10 years ago, when the game was verry different.

disagree with your disagrance. as I was comparing the list in it's entirety which includes a number of our KPP. and then some of those stats in any era were terrible. McCleod 4 disp, for someone who ended up being a prolific ball winner. Mitchell and Watson ditto. J Brown, riewolt, cameron basically no touches and no goals. at least Kelly kicked a goal on his debut. the game is littered with stars of our game both current and historically so regardless if you agree or disagree with the examples that i put forward the point remains that you need to give these guys 3-5 years.

Look at J Daicos. or H shaw. both were close to getting cut from our list for crap first 2-3 years. and then on the flip side look at Mark Mcough who won the anzac day medal than did nothing.

 

[OniAu]

With all due respect, your comparing apples and oranges, the only player on that list that is comparable is Jack Martin.

Evryone else is either a Key Position Player or debuted more than 10 years ago, when the game was verry different.

Moving the Goal posts to suit your argument doesnt make you right

He wont be delisted after a covid year and 2021 season. This is essentially his first year.

 

[Spuddd]

The game was legitimately different back then.

The other important factor would be TOG%. It wasn’t uncommon for kids to come in and hardly spend any time on the ground.

Really it wasn’t until Malthouse changed the game, where everyone was playing at least 65% of the game.

Saying that there were a number of players who had an ordinary first game and then became stars needs just as much context as the Mark McGough comment above.

 

[DWil6]

Not the worst opening post ever but if I had to grade it I’d put it in the ‘unlikely’ column.

 

[domin8tors]

The game was legitimately different back then.

The other important factor would be TOG%. It wasn’t uncommon for kids to come in and hardly spend any time on the ground.

Really it wasn’t until Malthouse changed the game, where everyone was playing at least 65% of the game.

Saying that there were a number of players who had an ordinary first game and then became stars needs just as much context as the Mark McGough comment above.

goes back to my original point that we can't judge these players on one year. most off them didn't even play last year on that list. like at the difference of say Poulter and McCrae. Poulter was able to play last year and looks like a 200 gamer. McCrae has shown signs but his a step off the pace at the moment. and 12 months out of the game does that

 

[Cyclops]

All our kids could be GOATs. Haha wanted to say that for ages.

Seriously though my impression is our recruiters have done a decent job with the picks they've been given and Jackass' point about the numbers game (listy size, SC, exposed form etc) is extremely relevant: we're not just sacking and retaining players because of exposed form at AFL level. We may end up kicking out another Podisadly/Brad Boyd (the 1990's one) but thats showbiz.

 

[domin8tors]

All our kids could be GOATs. Haha wanted to say that for ages.

Seriously though my impression is our recruiters have done a decent job with the picks they've been given and Jackass' point about the numbers game (listy size, SC, exposed form etc) is extremely relevant: we're not just sacking and retaining players because of exposed form at AFL level. We may end up kicking out another Podisadly/Brad Boyd (the 1990's one) but thats showbiz.

i need to slightly correct you. we do have a pig

 

[Spuddd]

Yeah nah, Rantall ain’t making it

 

[Copeland]

So Jett Buckley must be about 16 now, does he even play football?