List Mgmt. The KPP thread

[stax on the mull]

You're going to be one unhappy puppy this season cause Zac D will play every game that he is available for. And Zac offers a lot more than stopping ability. Get to a couple of games,you might be pleasantry surprised at the amount of work Zac does. Ibbo ,Johnno, and Spurr taking those intercept marks doesn't happen by good fortune.

What's the form line on Dawson?

On experience he'll be one of the first picked but he's not McPharlin. Its underselling the performances of those other players who did a good job when he wasn't there for majority of last year.

He played 5 (count them) games in 2015. He was good against Hogan in Rd 22. Passable for the finals, although generally as a unit the defenders had some lax covering of opposition tall forwards in both games. In his other two games Dawson was quite lamentable against North Melbourne and he elbowed Cameron in the face against GWS.

I'm reading the reports that he's trying to kick the ball more to add something to his game, and the way I interpret it is - he has to do it or there will be pressure on his spot. It helps him that Silvangi is continually injured, A Pearce is still a bit light and Smith possibly has slightly worse disposal skills.

 

[Swan Districts Kid]

Interesting article on Matthew Taberner from The Roar website - I hope his theory turns out to be right !
http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/02/08/this-could-be-taberners-breakout-season/

Over the summer, I have been watching replays of AFL games from the 2015 season on Fox Footy and I was impressed with one young forward, Matt Taberner. Looking at how other forwards have developed over their career, I have seen something of a pattern. The best forwards, except for superstars like Buddy Franklin and Jesse Hogan, seem to start making their mark in their fourth season. Taberner is set to hit that mark this year.

First, let me explain my theory by looking at Jarryd Roughead, Jack Riewoldt, Josh Kennedy and Taylor Walker. These players are A-class forwards and it was in their fourth season where they started showing their true talent.

• Over his first three seasons, Roughead kicked 58 goals. Then in his fourth season he scored 75 goals, just under double what he had scored in 2007.
• Again, in Riewoldt’s first three seasons he kicked 57 goals before scoring 78 goals in his fourth season. This handed him the Coleman Medal for the 2010 season.
• For Kennedy, the transition was not as dramatic. But in his first three seasons he scored 18 goals before kicking 31 in his fourth.
• Walker was always one of the top AFL players with an average of 30 goals over his first three seasons, but in 2012 he doubled that with 63 goals.

So for Taberner the fourth season is the campaign most likely to have him break out of his shell and show true talent. If he does have the breakout season and is able to get some consistent football then he should get around 40-50 goals in 2016. With that he could solve the problems that Fremantle Dockers have with getting enough goals and bring up their average goal tally to the level of the West Coast Eagles and Hawthorn Hawks. Should Taberner get around the 40-50 goals then I see him becoming one of the best forwards to emerge over the next eight years. If not then it could be that he is not the talent we believe him to be, yet Fremantle fans will hope he fulfills his potential.

 

[scon]

I for one still have faith in the bloke.
Can certainly guarantee that he will give it his all.

 

[meima]

I for one still have faith in the bloke.
Can certainly guarantee that he will give it his all.

I got to admited that I still like Tab, but Uebergang overtake him as my favourite player.As for Zac I hope Dawson go to him in sim ,rather Collins ( I think he go soft due to Zac just back from rehab).

 

[_007_]

You're going to be one unhappy puppy this season cause Zac D will play every game that he is available for. And Zac offers a lot more than stopping ability. Get to a couple of games,you might be pleasantry surprised at the amount of work Zac does. Ibbo ,Johnno, and Spurr taking those intercept marks doesn't happen by good fortune.

No, I wont get angry Salim, I won't even be surprised. It doesn't effect me in the slightest, most minute way really. Sorry to disappoint you mate. If the 'more' that Dawson supposedly brings is blocking for the third man up, I trust our other defenders are capable of filling that role whilst not being prone to the limitations Dawson has displayed over the course of his career.

 

[Taylor]

I think Zac Dawson plays exactly as he is told to. Spoil the ball, don't kick the ball, impact the contest and work hard to position.

I think he knows exactly what he is doing when he awkwardly spoils a ball and crunches a key opposition player.

 

[Sweetback]

I think Zac Dawson plays exactly as he is told to. Spoil the ball, don't kick the ball, impact the contest and work hard to position.

I think he knows exactly what he is doing when he awkwardly spoils a ball and crunches a key opposition player.

I agree. He'll be the type of guy who always knows what he's doing. You don't marry a bird named Sheena by accident.

 

[salim malik]

I think Zac Dawson plays exactly as he is told to. Spoil the ball, don't kick the ball, impact the contest and work hard to position.

I think he knows exactly what he is doing when he awkwardly spoils a ball and crunches a key opposition player.

And he always says sorry.

 

[_007_]

You probably think I dislike him or don't rate him as a footballer. That's not the case. It's just that he isn't so exceptionally good a defender that he can afford to have zero offensive ability (imo).

 

[Carnthedockers]

I for one still have faith in the bloke.
Can certainly guarantee that he will give it his all.

I keep saying it, but his display in the Port game this year was very exciting. Just waiting for him to pop.

 

[Freomaniac]

I think you will be shown to have significantly underestimated Mora's ability and adaptability.

No one has ever doubted Moras talent. We are all frustrated with his run of injury.

 

[scon]

I have a couple of concerns with Morabito in the backline. Nothing I have seen of him makes me think he is a natural or particularly good defender. I don't think he has the kicking skills or decision making to play a creative role down back either. I view him as an inside mid.

Edit: forgot to quote ya theGav56

This is the post I was responding to Freomaniac .Did you read it?

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

I have a couple of concerns with Morabito in the backline. Nothing I have seen of him makes me think he is a natural or particularly good defender. I don't think he has the kicking skills or decision making to play a creative role down back either. I view him as an inside mid.

Edit: forgot to quote ya theGav56

Have you actually seen Mora play as a defender this pre-season ? BTW Mora has better kicking skills IMO than Tanner Smith and Alex Pearce

 

[_007_]

Have you actually seen Mora play as a defender this pre-season ? BTW Mora has better kicking skills IMO than Tanner Smith and Alex Pearce

Nah I haven't seen him this preseason. I agree with you on the kicking skills. My thoughts on him as a defender are that he is too short to be a key defender and that he doesn't have the kind of 'elite' kicking skills that we are looking for coming out of the backline. Although he would probably make a fine 3rd tall/medium defender, what I am getting at is that he isn't the solution to our problem. We have good defenders, we need better attackers.

 

[salim malik]

Nah I haven't seen him this preseason. I agree with you on the kicking skills. My thoughts on him as a defender are that he is too short to be a key defender and that he doesn't have the kind of 'elite' kicking skills that we are looking for coming out of the backline. Although he would probably make a fine 3rd tall/medium defender, what I am getting at is that he isn't the solution to our problem. We have good defenders, we need better attackers.

He is Pavs size and Pav has made a prey good go at the KP caper.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Nah I haven't seen him this preseason. I agree with you on the kicking skills. My thoughts on him as a defender are that he is too short to be a key defender and that he doesn't have the kind of 'elite' kicking skills that we are looking for coming out of the backline. Although he would probably make a fine 3rd tall/medium defender, what I am getting at is that he isn't the solution to our problem. We have good defenders, we need better attackers.

Mora is actually 189cm in height which is 3cm smaller than Pav and has played on Pav in pre-season and handled himself very well. Nobody is saying that he is a Key Defender as he would be fine as a 3rd tall.

Don't forget West Coast had a good year with makeshift defenders at about Mora's height from what I recall.

Did you know Gibson from the Hawks is 189 cm which is Mora's height.

Ibbo is 186 cm and has played forward in several match sims. Mora does attack with his run but he is not really as precise with his kicking like say Duffield was. In fact very few of the backmen at the club are as good a kick as Duff was except when we suggest that Hilly and Mundy are backmen as they are good kicks.
I know what you are driving at but his kicking is improving but reference seeking better attackers you don't have to be the best kick in the team to be able to attack as you can attack using the other weapons a player has in his arsenal.

 

[Freomaniac]

I think Zac Dawson plays exactly as he is told to. Spoil the ball, don't kick the ball, impact the contest and work hard to position.
I think he knows exactly what he is doing when he awkwardly spoils a ball and crunches a key opposition player.

My thoughts exactly. Dawson is not expected to get 30 disposals a game and win the brownlow.

 

[_007_]

He is Pavs size and Pav has made a prey good go at the KP caper.

I think Pavlich makes up for his lack of height by being close to a once in a generation player. I also reckon that when he began, Pav would have been close to the average kpp height and has become undersized (if you even can be at 190+) over time.

Mora is actually 189cm in height which is 3cm smaller than Pav and has played on Pav in pre-season and handled himself very well. Nobody is saying that he is a Key Defender as he would be fine as a 3rd tall.

Don't forget West Coast had a good year with makeshift defenders at about Mora's height from what I recall.

Did you know Gibson from the Hawks is 189 cm which is Mora's height.

Ibbo is 186 cm and has played forward in several match sims. Mora does attack with his run but he is not really as precise with his kicking like say Duffield was. In fact very few of the backmen at the club are as good a kick as Duff was except when we suggest that Hilly and Mundy are backmen as they are good kicks.
I know what you are driving at but his kicking is improving but reference seeking better attackers you don't have to be the best kick in the team to be able to attack as you can attack using the other weapons a player has in his arsenal.

We are basically in agreement Danny and I understand what you are saying. It's just that I would prefer the person that is doing the attacking to have a slightly more precise kick. To me, only Mundy fits that bill.

 

[stax on the mull]

My thoughts exactly. Dawson is not expected to get 30 disposals a game and win the brownlow.

This is true, but the issue with the lack of disposal is that opposition teams know he's going to look to give it off to someone else, and they know that he is not going to be a receiver.

It limits your outlet options out of defence by 1 player, and as ball movement has been identified as an area we need to improve, some evolution his kicking skills this pre-season is essential.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

No, I wont get angry Salim, I won't even be surprised. It doesn't effect me in the slightest, most minute way really. Sorry to disappoint you mate. If the 'more' that Dawson supposedly brings is blocking for the third man up, I trust our other defenders are capable of filling that role whilst not being prone to the limitations Dawson has displayed over the course of his career.

So you are another one of the posters who is on a beat up in regards Dawson. If he had the limitations that you allude to he wouldn't have got to play 146 games of AFL Footy. Yes 146 games so all of you who want to beat up on Dawson go and have a go at RTB and tell him he is wrong in selecting Dawss for 69 Dockers games.

I doubt that you even go watch games and are a keyboard warrior that watches the game on TV where you cant see what Dawson does and then goes on BF about Dawson having limitations and implying that the Club shouldn't pick him.

Go watch the final that we played against Sydney last year on video and you will see what Dawson does and you will hear the commentary team made up of respected ex AFL players heaping praise on Dawson and the role he plays for the team. Video is not the ideal way to watch footy as you don't get a full perspective of what is happening out on the field but for the purposes of getting my views across to you I am suggesting the video and the commentary will enlighten you about Zac's efforts.

BTW i'm a 20 year member of the club so my opinion is formed from watching a lot of games in person in that period.

Before that I followed South Freo and not that mob from Moss Street and we had a guy called Simon Outhwaite (a wing/half back flanker) who did goofy things in his exuberance to get the footy and kick it forward or pass it off to others. He would fall over and do other stupid things like Dawss (with his flailing arms and elbows). He was one of the first picked because he did the job that the Coach Mal Brown and others wanted him to do. Just like RTB and the Match Committee have selected Dawson for 69 games because he does what they want him to do week in week out and sacrifices his game for the team and not himself. I certainly would want a player like Dawss in my team every week if I were the coach or a member of the Match Committee or if I were salim malik

 

[_007_]

So you are another one of the posters who is on a beat up in regards Dawson. If he had the limitations that you allude to he wouldn't have got to play 146 games of AFL Footy. Yes 146 games so all of you who want to beat up on Dawson go and have a go at RTB and tell him he is wrong in selecting Dawss for 69 Dockers games.

I doubt that you even go watch games and are a keyboard warrior that watches the game on TV where you cant see what Dawson does and then goes on BF about Dawson having limitations and implying that the Club shouldn't pick him.

Go watch the final that we played against Sydney last year on video and you will see what Dawson does and you will hear the commentary team made up of respected ex AFL players heaping praise on Dawson and the role he plays for the team. Video is not the ideal way to watch footy as you don't get a full perspective of what is happening out on the field but for the purposes of getting my views across to you I am suggesting the video and the commentary will enlighten you about Zac's efforts.

BTW i'm a 20 year member of the club so my opinion is formed from watching a lot of games in person in that period.

Before that I followed South Freo and not that mob from Moss Street and we had a guy called Simon Outhwaite (a wing/half back flanker) who did goofy things in his exuberance to get the footy and kick it forward or pass it off to others. He would fall over and do other stupid things like Dawss (with his flailing arms and elbows). He was one of the first picked because he did the job that the Coach Mal Brown and others wanted him to do. Just like RTB and the Match Committee have selected Dawson for 69 games because he does what they want him to do week in week out and sacrifices his game for the team and not himself. I certainly would want a player like Dawss in my team every week if I were the coach or a member of the Match Committee or if I were salim malik

I don't base my opinion on Lyon's. The bloke plays under an instruction to not kick the footy and I think that that is ****en ludicrous. That is all. Refer:

You probably think I dislike him or don't rate him as a footballer. That's not the case. It's just that he isn't so exceptionally good a defender that he can afford to have zero offensive ability (imo).

What a bizarre overreaction.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

I don't base my opinion on Lyon's. The bloke plays under an instruction to not kick the footy and I think that that is ****en ludicrous. That is all. Refer:


What a bizarre overreaction.

What a negative opinion about a bloke who has played 146 AFL games surely that many games says he has offensive ability just some people will and do take a set against a player and can cant see the wood for the trees.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

What a negative opinion about a bloke who has played 146 AFL games surely that many games says he has offensive ability just some people will and do take a set against a player and can cant see the wood for the trees.

If he has offensive ability, why hasn't he used.it yet?

 

[meima]

If he has offensive ability, why hasn't he used.it yet?

Structure, injury , inflexibility to move fyfe forward, mundy and hills to halfback, Walters as a rooming mid, cause pressure in our defensive 50. When the ball keep coming in sooner or later will create turn over.

 

[DMan 11]

Far out, the Dawson / Anti-Dawson squads remind me of team Edward/ team Jacob schoolgirl fapping.

Lets keep some perspective here - it's off season and the tendency to over analyse is prevalent...lets save the hyper emotion for actual real world problems !