" The Last Dance "

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Comparison posts and discussion regarding Michael Jordan vs Lebron/Lebrone James are now contained here

Play Nice - Michael Jordan vs LeBron James

tbh it was a good education of how weak defences were in that era. If MJ is going to cut thru D's like that LeBron sure as hell will
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WELCOME TO THE LAST DANCE

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YippeeYiYeo said:
I cant think of a documentary ive enjoyed more. Jordan and Bulls was my childhood right up until i finished high school. Its amazing how something that happened on the other side of the world involving people ive never meet or ever will meet had such an impact on my life.

I used to be upset about the Bulls team being broken up and i never understood why when i was a 17 year old kid. In hindsight a 7th championship wouldnt change all that much about the dynasty or their legacy. I think the mystique surrounding the "what if" holds greater value actually. With Jordan there anything was possible. Of course following their 6th ring after the players were traded or released that they performed nowhere near their peak. How do you motivate yourself to the same level when youve just seen the end of such a great team? Id argue its impossible.

Its interesting to see that Phil Jackson admit that he needed a break. I think maybe in his mind after calling their 6th run "The Last Dance" it would be extremely hard for him to get everyone up for ANOTHER season. He probably felt that they would fall short, and having some time away was more valuable to his life than potentially not winning. As history shows, he went on to LA and have another dynasty so he would feel vindicated at ending his time at Chicago.

I really thought at the beginning of this documentary that it would definitely show Jordan in a negative light, but ive come out of this with an even greater respect for him. He's got that work ethic that very few have, and his attitude reminds me of David Goggins who is just a savage for working hard and achieving his potential. Its the sort of attitude that might make other aspects of his life harder as far as personal relationships go with family and friends, and i imagine Jordan still struggles with striking the right balance in his life today, where he spends his time and energy.

No doubt i will watch all episodes again several times. If theres heaps of extra footage left on teh cutting room floor i hope they release it somewhere for all the fans that cant get enough. 10/10.
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One of the things I have taken out of the series is how personable Jordan was/is. He is so effervescent and is so respected by everyone. Bird comes and finds him after game 7, Malone gets on the Chicago bus to find him after the finals.

The bit about him always being in the moment was very cool. One of the boys one minute, game time the next.

* that man could flick a switch.
 
Finished it last night. Was on the edge of my seat every Monday. Just terrific stuff. Everyone's mainly covered everything that needs to be covered. I thought the Kobe episode and episode 9 were particularly good. Larry Bird and MJ's exchange at the end of that was gold!
Seriously almost as good as a Son of Skeletor lesson on basketball history!
www.bigfooty.com

NBA Team Results 1988-2013 - was your team a stud, a dud, or just stuck in mud?

While watching the first few picks of the 2013 NBA Draft a few weeks ago, I found myself thinking about a particular team: " Man, I hope they (Team X) don't screw this up- they've wasted so many high picks.. " Five minutes later, I had the exact same thought about another team as we awaited...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
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Best documentary I've watched.
The way they styled the countdown to the last shot in the final episode sent chills down my spine.

I tend to agree that Jordan talking about making a run at a 7th is a bit of historical license.
The Bulls were in trouble with Indiana, and Utah gave them more trouble than the doco portrayed.
There were situations where knowing it was one last dance found them the extra mile.

It wasn't as simple as we'll all come back on 1 year contracts and win a 7th.
It was the CBA lockout that delayed the 1998/99 season that would prove to be the nail in the coffin.

The 1998/99 season was shortened to 50 games, and didn't start until February, and it didn't look like starting at all at the negotiation table until well into January 1999. During that lockout, Jordan was quoted several times in newspaper articles I read (they are not on the internet, it was pre-WWW) that he had no interest in playing a 50 / 66 game season
 

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QuietB said:
One of the things I have taken out of the series is how personable Jordan was/is. He is so effervescent and is so respected by everyone. Bird comes and finds him after game 7, Malone gets on the Chicago bus to find him after the finals.

The bit about him always being in the moment was very cool. One of the boys one minute, game time the next.

fu** that man could flick a switch.
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people bag malone but the footage illustrates that he paid his respects to the champions on the bus. also jerry sloan boarded the bus and conveyed his congratulations (not shown)
 
TheGreatBarryB said:
Pippen points went downhill after ‘98. Had an ordinary at Rockets even though good playoff series and numbers decreased even more at Portland. Rodman barely did anything after as well, played 30 odd games.

Thought the series was tough on Krause, thought they should have interviewed someone who could have defended him more or put his side forward at least
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I found this interesting, the Reinsdorf / Krause conflicts, from the perspective that Jordan now as an owner, was a party to low-balling Kemba Walker at Charlotte in 2019, by offering a contract $60 million short, and Kemba walks to Boston.
 
SportsCentre said:
I found this interesting, the Reinsdorf / Krause conflicts, from the perspective that Jordan now as an owner, was a party to low-balling Kemba Walker at Charlotte in 2019, by offering a contract $60 million short, and Kemba walks to Boston.
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A dreadful owner/evaluator/delegator whatever you want to call. Awful picks, trades he didn’t do. Did hand out some money to some dreadful players. With Walker it was weird, why not traded him earlier if they didn’t want to sign him to huge deal?
 
YippeeYiYeo said:
I really thought at the beginning of this documentary that it would definitely show Jordan in a negative light, but ive come out of this with an even greater respect for him. He's got that work ethic that very few have, and his attitude reminds me of David Goggins who is just a savage for working hard and achieving his potential. Its the sort of attitude that might make other aspects of his life harder as far as personal relationships go with family and friends, and i imagine Jordan still struggles with striking the right balance in his life today, where he spends his time and energy.

No doubt i will watch all episodes again several times. If theres heaps of extra footage left on teh cutting room floor i hope they release it somewhere for all the fans that cant get enough. 10/10.
Click to expand...

From the outside looking in, the highlighted seems to describe Nathan Buckley's playing career.
 
Scotland said:
Great series, did enjoy.

Was in primary school for the first threepeat and had started high school for the end of the second. I wanted Shaq and Penny to beat them in 95/96 and Reggie to beat them in 97/98.

Such a 'what if' feeling to think that they didn't really choose to go out on top. Krause pulled an Eddie McGuire and told Phil Jackson his time was up and then player movement snowballed from there. But as a kid I just figured Jordan retired and that was that. I'm a firm believer with Jackson, Pippen and Jordan on board (probably not Rodman, 37 and they were sick of him - plus he ended up doing nothing after he left) they could've won again in 99 and possibly 2000.

They averaged 88 points a game in the 98 finals and Jordan/Pippen/Kukoc contributed 65 of them. Harper, Kerr, Longley, Burrell were good soldiers but every team has players that good. Kerr played another 5 years, Harper won a couple of rings with the Lakers as a starter, Longley played a couple of years with Phoenix at a comparable level. Surely seemingly self proclaimed GOAT GM could've found 2 or 3 role players to supplement the core they had. They were an old team but they beat a Jazz team led by Malone, Stockton, Hornacek etc. who were all the same vintage. In 99 the Spurs won it with a bunch of old dudes plus Tim Duncan. 2000 a bit different going up against a prime Shaq and emerging Kobe.

Just seems a bit sad that the GM & owner chose to go down a path that broke up one of the greatest teams ever for no real reward. They didn't get much for Pippen and got nothing for Jordan, then the new coach they wanted had nothing to work with and turned out to be a dud. And a year later their HOF coach was winning titles again with another good roster. Maybe they are never a 60+ win team or a champion or NBA finalist again with Jordan and Pippen but Pippen's Blazers were in the playoffs each year and they were worse than a nearly 40 year old Jordan's Wizards. Krause (With Reinsdorf's tacit approval) blew up the franchise and made nothing out of the rubble.

I get it if Phil Jackson or Michael Jordan had decided at the conclusion of the 98 finals that the run was over and they needed a change or to finish up and then you decide to maximise what you can get for older players, hit the draft etc. but stubbornly making the call on the coach before the season and putting your GOAT player offside isn't good management. Those 3 seasons Jordan sat out could have brought Chicago another title, but they also would've brought offers from everywhere (free agency, sign and trade etc). All we know is that he was pissed off with the franchise and refused to play for another coach. Jackson sat out a year, Jordan 3. Who knows what could have happened if he stayed or was open to a move elsewhere...
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They didn’t touch on it on the documentary much but Reinsdorf clearly wanted to save some money. The Pippen thing essentially built up for nearly a decade. MJ himself said he was unlikely to stick around. Big money was waiting elsewhere, the Bulls already had the highest payroll in the league and clearly Pippen was unlikely to be willing to take a pay cut for an owner and GM he feels did him wrong for years. If Scottie was on a bigger deal earlier in his career maybe it works out differently. But then you could argue they wouldn’t have had the same level of depth.

Just one of those things that seem to happen in sports with successful teams after years together.

Krause was a man with his own flaws but I think Reinsdorf got off easy because he’s alive and Krause isn’t. Reinsdorf still owns the Bulls and they’re still a mess today with all sorts of issues even when they had a bit of success.
 
1998 was always going to be the final season that that group was together, as soon as Krause said “Phil Jackson could be 82-0 and he still won’t be head coach next season” that was it, despite Reinsdorf trying a last minute Hail Mary to get the group to go around for another ‘last dance’, Jackson was having none of it. There was an article I read before about it, it was done, the goodbyes were said, the writing down on piece of paper about what the year has meant to you and putting it in a fire was done.
 

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Just seems a bit sad that the GM & owner chose to go down a path that broke up one of the greatest teams ever for no real reward.
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Krause is essentially another employee of the 'big boss' Reinsdorf, nothing gets done without the guy signing the cheques approving of decisions that involve millions being taken out of his bank account. Imagine if Krause had woken up one day with the brilliant idea of giving himself a pay rise of 100 million a year. Yeah, I doubt Reinsdorf would be claiming he's a 'hands off' kinda owner leaving the running of the team to his GM in that situation. hahaha

It surprises me how may people actually buy into the carefully crafted charade that big bad Krause was the one behind the break up of the team when analyzing the situation properly he was just a mere pawn of the real boss. The truth is Reinsdorf used Krause (with or without him being on it) as the bad cop and himself acting as the good cop to rip off the players as much as possible or at least pay them less than their true market worth.

Reinsdorf admitted as much in the first episode saying he was well aware Krause quickly rubbed people he worked with the wrong way and hired him anyway because he was the perfect patsy he was looking for in contract negotiations, that was what attracted Reinsdorf to Krause in the first place. Although he claimed it was because of Krause's ability to spot talent, that was probably of secondary importance to him.

According to Barkley he was holidaying with Jordan when he received a call from Reinsdorf confirming that he would agree to pay Jordan 30 million for both the 97 and 98 seasons but that he knew he was going to regret it. Jordan was bemused and befuddled at how ungrateful and resentful, someone he'd very likely help make over a billion dollars, was about paying him something close to what he was worth for once in his time in Chicago.

Reinsdorf had no desire nor intention of continuing to pay Jordan 30 million a year and match whatever Pippen, Jackson and the rest of the team where to going to get in the open market smashing any previous team salary record. He wanted to end it in 98 because Reinsdorf came to the conclusion that the money he needed to spend to bring them back for the 99 season simply wasn't worth it, from his perspective anyway, end of story. With Jordan now being an owner, he possibly sympathizes with Reinsdorf a little bit.
 
thought the kerr part was excellent, also last night gave pippen a bit of a boost, showing him play with the back injury, after early at times he is a bit sooky in the series

loved the series

biggest loser is clearly reinsdorf, comes across as tight

could have thought of a better excuse after all these years
 
SportsCentre said:
I found this interesting, the Reinsdorf / Krause conflicts, from the perspective that Jordan now as an owner, was a party to low-balling Kemba Walker at Charlotte in 2019, by offering a contract $60 million short, and Kemba walks to Boston.
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Part of me wonders if there's an element of Jordan seeing a guy like Walker through the prism of his own career. Jordan joined a rubbish team and they never missed the playoffs until he left. After 8 years they were 2/3 the way through the first threepeat. Kemba joined a rubbish team and after 8 years they were still pretty average having made the first round in the weak East twice. I could see Jordan saying (internally or outwardly) 'You're the man, you're the 3 time all star and franchise player. I made $3m a year getting beat up by the Bad Boy Pistons then beating Magic Johnson and winning the championship. How are you worth a max deal when you can't even lead the team to a playoff series win?' But with some of the other picks and signings who knows...
 
Never will understand, I mean nor will even MJ, Pippen, Rodman themselves why and how the GM and owner blew up after 98. Honestly, MJ was elite and was about as crafty at age 35 then he ever was at 25. He was still at his prime. That’s ludicrous. Forcing MJ to retire is the biggest travesty in sports tbh. Did not once ask Jackson, or MJ, or Pippen for one year deals. Stupid.
That’s MJ, not some bum like Fyre or Joakim Noah.

Rule of thumb- never EVER break up a team yourself if you won the title. The players choose to go or retire. Not the Gm and Owner up to that point. To talk about it even before the 98 season.. pathetic. And guess what. Chicago are about as bad as they were before MJ now AFTER he retired. Look at their track record. And their roster this season. Guess they’ve been rebuilding for 22 years..

Krause, as good as he was prior to 98, big fat head destroyed the franchise tbh. Ego? Selfishness ? Desire to prove it’s a great organisation not great players that build teams?
 
Cyber_punk said:
Just started watching. The core wouldn't have been that old in 99 surely. Should have aimed for a 7th and not die wondering.
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Exactly. Who cares tbh. They were the hunted. Even at that age. They repelled Hall of Famers after Hall of Famers. Bird, Thomas, Magic Johnson, to Payton, Charles Barkley. Biggest one for me was Malone. The guy tried his heart out, top 3 all time scoring but couldn’t manage it either. They only way teams could win was by them retiring/quitting. Which was sad. Not one team proved to be their match at MJ’s peak. Not one could knock him off. Only Krause did, disgustingly enough.
 
Scotland said:
Part of me wonders if there's an element of Jordan seeing a guy like Walker through the prism of his own career. Jordan joined a rubbish team and they never missed the playoffs until he left. After 8 years they were 2/3 the way through the first threepeat. Kemba joined a rubbish team and after 8 years they were still pretty average having made the first round in the weak East twice. I could see Jordan saying (internally or outwardly) 'You're the man, you're the 3 time all star and franchise player. I made $3m a year getting beat up by the Bad Boy Pistons then beating Magic Johnson and winning the championship. How are you worth a max deal when you can't even lead the team to a playoff series win?' But with some of the other picks and signings who knows...
Click to expand...
Meh. Kemba has always been a fifth best PG if that. Couldn’t prove much at Charlotte and MJ earned every dollar at Chicago and now Walker was going to get a max worth more then what Jordan was getting 94-98 combined, whilst not winning a playoff series? Nah. 100% not worth it
 
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