Society/Culture The left do not represent the poor anymore

[skilts]

I went to university too , they are good for teaching some practicals things but they are very left leaning especially when it comes to social sciences and humanities.

I find it significant that you make no mention here of the degree you took at university. Most people, when discussing their tertiary education, would state which degree they had been awarded. Or, like Bolt, did you decide it was all too hard after one semester? Is this why you are besotted with this gormless conman? Is this why you peddle his lies? Do you, like him, suffer from the arrows of constant rejection?

Have you ever had an original thought? No? Of course not. How silly of me. You have all of the qualities required to be a minister in an LNP government, if one is ever again elected. Are you of the catholic persuasion by any chance? This would assist your ambitions. The reason I ask is your tendency to adopt others thoughts holus bolus and unexamined. A liberal arts degree might have provided you with an inquiring mind, though I doubt it. Not even those pinko, commie, lefty bastards would have been able to overcome your manifest inadequacies.

Hint: If you must insist on stealing others work, it's usually best to steal from someone with some talent.

 

[yebiga]

I find it significant that you make no mention here of the degree you took at university. Most people, when discussing their tertiary education, would state which degree they had been awarded. Or, like Bolt, did you decide it was all to hard after one semester? Is this why you are besotted with this gormless conman? Is this why you peddle his lies? Do you, like him, suffer from the arrows of constant rejection?

Have you ever had an original thought? No? Of course not. How silly of me. You have all of the qualities required to be a minister in an LNP government, if one is ever again elected. Are you of the catholic persuasion by any chance? This would assist your ambitions. The reason I ask is your tendency to adopt others thoughts holus bolus and unexamined. A liberal arts degree might have provided you with an inquiring mind, though I doubt it. Not even those pinko, commie, lefty bastards would have been able to overcome your manifest inadequacies.

Hint: If you must insist on stealing others work, it's usually best to steal from someone with some talent.

https://www.newcriterion.com/issues/1991/4/moral-homicide-illiberal-education-in-america

The embedding of identity politics in academia is well documented. It is decades since there was reasoned dispassionate study of the humanities at the tertiary or secondary level.

The linked article puts it well - that dispassionate balanced view may never have been anymore than a reference point but in abandoning it all together we lose any protection against the current myopia.

There are still those who can play the game and learn to think clearly thru the garbage but the majority of humanities students graduate dumber than when they began their course.

History, literature and Philosopy departments routinely produce graduates who are unbelievably neurotic, inarticulate, awkward, and confused. Their common sense has been severely impaired. What they have learnt is so confused and absurd that they are incapable of articulating a coherent wholistic explanation of anything they have learnt.

They will of course drop names like a Foucault, a Chomsky, Derrida, Nietzsche, Sartre, Kafka, Woolf. What is clear though is that they don't actually understand the work or author. They cannot put it into any historical or contextual theme.

All their ideas are disconnected fragments.

 

[skilts]

https://www.newcriterion.com/issues/1991/4/moral-homicide-illiberal-education-in-america

The embedding of identity politics in academia is well documented. It is decades since there was reasoned dispassionate study of the humanities at the tertiary or secondary level.

The linked article puts it well - that dispassionate balanced view may never have been anymore than a reference point but in abandoning it all together we lose any protection against the current myopia.

There are still those who can play the game and learn to think clearly thru the garbage but the majority of humanities students graduate dumber than when they began their course.

History, literature and Philosopy departments routinely produce graduates who are unbelievably neurotic, inarticulate, awkward, and confused. Their common sense has been severely impaired. What they have learnt is so confused and absurd that they are incapable of articulating a coherent wholistic explanation of anything they have learnt.

They will of course drop names like a Foucault, a Chomsky, Derrida, Nietzsche, Sartre, Kafka, Woolf. What is clear though is that they don't actually understand the work or author. They cannot put it into any historical or contextual theme.

All their ideas are disconnected fragments.

I'd be interested to read your dissertation on one of the central themes of Nietzsche's earlier work, to whom all others you mention owe a considerable debt - i.e. that the art creating state resides within the tension between the Apollonian and Dionysian characteristics of the human psyche. Should be easy for one as qualified as yourself.

To an extent, I agree with you about the prevalence of left-leaning lecturers and tutors within academia. Like you, they misunderstand the nature and history of their project. The most influential practitioners throughout twentieth century Western thought were the aforementioned Nietzsche, and Martin Heidegger, neither of whom has ever been accused of being leftist. All others with pretensions to serious thought during that period founder on the rock of their intellectual brilliance, creativity and distinctive insight into what it is to be human.

Where those two Germans differed from leftists, at root, is in their insistence on the primacy of the individual in any serious examination of the lived human existence. Hardly the stuff of Marx, Engels et al. In my experience, the only academics worth listening to, or reading, are those who display no interest in converting their students to any political cause. Nor should they (in my view) try to construct some sort of cult surrounding themselves. It is on the latter point that I take issue with thinkers like Plato and Jung. The result of an exposure to the liberal arts should be a distinct distrust of such political and cultish urgers. It is in the overcoming of such pseudo, self-serving thought, and pressure to conform, that a significant construction or strengthening of an independent mind can/might occur. Unfortunately, there are no certainties in this.

If you find the above, "unbelievably neurotic, inarticulate, awkward, and confused", this will be my fault entirely. However, I must take issue with your lauding of common sense. I would take no pride in being 'common', especially not in my thinking. Neither should you.

 

[yebiga]

I'd be interested to read your dissertation on one of the central themes of Nietzsche's earlier work, to whom all others you mention owe a considerable debt - i.e. that the art creating state resides within the tension between the Apollonian and Dionysian characteristics of the human psyche. Should be easy for one as qualified as yourself.

To an extent, I agree with you about the prevalence of left-leaning lecturers and tutors within academia. Like you, they misunderstand the nature and history of their project. The most influential practitioners throughout twentieth century Western thought were the aforementioned Nietzsche, and Martin Heidegger, neither of whom has ever been accused of being leftist. All others with pretensions to serious thought during that period founder on the rock of their intellectual brilliance, creativity and distinctive insight into what it is to be human.

Where those two Germans differed from leftists, at root, is in their insistence on the primacy of the individual in any serious examination of the lived human existence. Hardly the stuff of Marx, Engels et al. In my experience, the only academics worth listening to, or reading, are those who display no interest in converting their students to any political cause. Nor should they (in my view) try to construct some sort of cult surrounding themselves. It is on the latter point that I take issue with thinkers like Plato and Jung. The result of an exposure to the liberal arts should be a distinct distrust of such political and cultish urgers. It is in the overcoming of such pseudo, self-serving thought, and pressure to conform, that a significant construction or strengthening of an independent mind can/might occur. Unfortunately, there are no certainties in this.

If you find the above, "unbelievably neurotic, inarticulate, awkward, and confused", this will be my fault entirely. However, I must take issue with your lauding of common sense. I would take no pride in being 'common', especially not in my thinking. Neither should you.

Fantastic - love your post
And can't wait to respond to the neitzsche question later tonight.
Also huge respect for Heidegger.

Gotta go now

 

[Coolangatta]

In my experience, the only academics worth listening to, or reading, are those who display no interest in converting their students to any political cause.

I agree.

Also, behead all those who insult Coolangatta.

 

[yebiga]

I'd be interested to read your dissertation on one of the central themes of Nietzsche's earlier work, to whom all others you mention owe a considerable debt - i.e. that the art creating state resides within the tension between the Apollonian and Dionysian characteristics of the human psyche. Should be easy for one as qualified as yourself.

To an extent, I agree with you about the prevalence of left-leaning lecturers and tutors within academia. Like you, they misunderstand the nature and history of their project. The most influential practitioners throughout twentieth century Western thought were the aforementioned Nietzsche, and Martin Heidegger, neither of whom has ever been accused of being leftist. All others with pretensions to serious thought during that period founder on the rock of their intellectual brilliance, creativity and distinctive insight into what it is to be human.

Where those two Germans differed from leftists, at root, is in their insistence on the primacy of the individual in any serious examination of the lived human existence. Hardly the stuff of Marx, Engels et al. In my experience, the only academics worth listening to, or reading, are those who display no interest in converting their students to any political cause. Nor should they (in my view) try to construct some sort of cult surrounding themselves. It is on the latter point that I take issue with thinkers like Plato and Jung. The result of an exposure to the liberal arts should be a distinct distrust of such political and cultish urgers. It is in the overcoming of such pseudo, self-serving thought, and pressure to conform, that a significant construction or strengthening of an independent mind can/might occur. Unfortunately, there are no certainties in this.

If you find the above, "unbelievably neurotic, inarticulate, awkward, and confused", this will be my fault entirely. However, I must take issue with your lauding of common sense. I would take no pride in being 'common', especially not in my thinking. Neither should you.

the Apollonian / Dionysian dialectic is part of a search by Neitzsche to anchor a new morality a new value system.

The advent of Darwin and the origin of specious mid 19th century had excelerated secular beliefs and effectively destroyed the infallibility of our religions. N believes this was an existential crisis of meaning or lack there of.

He savages the morality of Christianity as a weak slave morality. He fears that the popular democracy of the Everyman replacing Christianity is even more decadent and weaker than Christianity.

He naturally, looks to time before Christianity to unearth a more dignified belief system of meaning and values. It is here in his early works that he ponders the Apollonian / Dionysian interplay. The god of truth v the god of ecstasy. Or the dialectic of order / chaos.

It is outside the scope of this thread but what N touches on is that Truth without Dionysus stagnates into ideology. Chaos without Apollo become dissipation madnes.

We see this in art but we see it through out all of life. His character Zarathustra is a personification of this apollio/Dionysus interplay of the madman revealing the truth.

In between The presocratics and Neitzsche philosophy becomes obsessed with truth and order. The Dionysian tradition lobotomized. Except there it is in the artist and his art.

If god is dead - then there is no arbiter of the correct value system - that job becomes mankinds task or it must descend into nilhism.

Well that's where we are at. Neitzsche' search haunts us but to date we have not taken up the challenge. We live with the confused remnants of neglected and dead value systems.

One could argue the post modern academic pseudo left commitment to absurdity is in fact taken a kind timid Dionysian tradition but they are unable to even timidly marry it with the Apollonian task of creating order from new truths.

That would risk getting it wrong.

An if N is about anything - it is risk and danger.

 

[skilts]

That would risk getting it wrong.

An if N is about anything - it is risk and danger.

Thanks for the post. Like you, I'm going to have to postpone a reply, until tomorrow. Among other things, I might consider the appropriateness of this discussion within this thread. I've often thought that it, or something similar, might be a subject worthy of its own thread, but feared it might be so specific/obscure as to appear elitist, and have the potential to put the general reader to sleep. Anyway, more of that tomorrow.

 

[pugsville]

https://www.newcriterion.com/issues/1991/4/moral-homicide-illiberal-education-in-america

The embedding of identity politics in academia is well documented. It is decades since there was reasoned dispassionate study of the humanities at the tertiary or secondary level.

The linked article puts it well - that dispassionate balanced view may never have been anymore than a reference point but in abandoning it all together we lose any protection against the current myopia.

There are still those who can play the game and learn to think clearly thru the garbage but the majority of humanities students graduate dumber than when they began their course.

History, literature and Philosopy departments routinely produce graduates who are unbelievably neurotic, inarticulate, awkward, and confused. Their common sense has been severely impaired. What they have learnt is so confused and absurd that they are incapable of articulating a coherent wholistic explanation of anything they have learnt.

They will of course drop names like a Foucault, a Chomsky, Derrida, Nietzsche, Sartre, Kafka, Woolf. What is clear though is that they don't actually understand the work or author. They cannot put it into any historical or contextual theme.

All their ideas are disconnected fragments.

this post has nothing to do with reality. Based on what prejudice, dislike and just creating a cartoon version of people, History , Literature and Philosophy graduates that has no basis in reality.

 

[yebiga]

this post has nothing to do with reality. Based on what prejudice, dislike and just creating a cartoon version of people, History , Literature and Philosophy graduates that has no basis in reality.

There is a link to an article which reviews a book on the matter. It's not like I'm the first say this.

The advent of safe spaces and trigger warnings in the US is
Entirely consistent with a global trend across the west.

You simply cannot reconcile this with vigorous scholarship.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

what are the left trying to do to the poor in this country ? kill them ?

Stop this attack on coal , renewables are not cheap or reliable .

The renewable energy target should go and we should build coal power fire stations and allow gas fracking so we have cheap electricity in this country .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

see this guys its what can provide cheap electricity for your home but the left hate it



Lets just stop the royalties on coal and build more coal fire power stations .

 

[Coolangatta]

Yeah, let's just make global warming even worse than it already is, but I forgot, tens of thousands of climate scientists are just brainwashed lefties. You non-climate scientists know more about how much CO2 is really being dumped into the atmosphere as a result of coal burning hahaha.

 

[MAGA]

The lefties on this board are likely unemployed and expect the tax payer to fund their green energy dreams.

Vomit worthy.

 

[Coolangatta]

The lefties on this board are likely unemployed and expect the tax payer to fund their green energy dreams.

Vomit worthy.

Yeah because being unemployed and left-wing go hand in hand, the science is clear, just like it's clear global warming is a Chinese hoax because celebrity apprentice Trump said so!

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yeah because being unemployed and left-wing go hand in hand, the science is clear, just like it's clear global warming is a Chinese hoax because celebrity apprentice Trump said so!

You mean President Trump ?

The liberal party must take to the next election a policy to build more coal fire power stations and give the people a clear choice between cheap electricity costs and low emissions .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yeah, let's just make global warming even worse than it already is, but I forgot, tens of thousands of climate scientists are just brainwashed lefties. You non-climate scientists know more about how much CO2 is really being dumped into the atmosphere as a result of coal burning hahaha.

A scientists who doesn't believe in climate change is not allowed to speak at universities or on the ABC .

Remember how our dams were always going to be empty and we were going to need to depend on sea water what rubbish that was .

What harm has been done by the earth warming ? food production is at record levels

 

[Mofra]

A scientists who doesn't believe in climate change is not allowed to speak at universities or on the ABC .

Name one that isn't funded by the fossil fuel lobby.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Name one that isn't funded by the fossil fuel lobby.

They have one on every fortnight on sky .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...tream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

You don't think their is self interest at work for scientists who believe in global warming ? more money and work for them , the need for a international government and an attack on western capitalism.

Tell me what harm has been done to the earth by global warming ? only consequence seems to be record food productions

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This is a simple message for coming state and federal elections , the choice is between cheap reliable energy or low emissions .

Every time you pay more for your power bills the left has a great big smile on their face .

 

[Gough]

This is a simple message for coming state and federal elections , the choice is between cheap reliable energy or low emissions .

Every time you pay more for your power bills the left has a great big smile on their face .

The Libs think there's a choice, and you can't have both. That's part of the reason they're preparing for opposition.

 

[King Brown]

Did the leading lights of left wing politics ever truly represent the poor?

Were the Montagnards poor? No.
Marx? No.
Lenin & Trotsky? No.
Fabians? Hell no.

It's always been a movement of educated middle class resentment towards the upper class. The working classes (and poor) were only ever a vehicle for their political ambitions. As soon as the poor have become unnecessary to the movement they have been ditched.

 

[pugsville]

There is a link to an article which reviews a book on the matter. It's not like I'm the first say this.

The advent of safe spaces and trigger warnings in the US is
Entirely consistent with a global trend across the west.

You simply cannot reconcile this with vigorous scholarship.

People say it but generally with zero knowledge.

so have been in humanity tutes and lectures recently?

 

[pugsville]

This is a simple message for coming state and federal elections , the choice is between cheap reliable energy or low emissions .

Every time you pay more for your power bills the left has a great big smile on their face .

Higher power prices in Australia were caused by privatisation and power companies extracting profits. Do some research. rather than sounding off with cliches without any understanding.

 

[pugsville]

They have one on every fortnight on sky .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...tream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

You don't think their is self interest at work for scientists who believe in global warming ? more money and work for them , the need for a international government and an attack on western capitalism.

Tell me what harm has been done to the earth by global warming ? only consequence seems to be record food productions

lists like this are frequently debunked.

And Oil and resources companies their lobbyists and their effect on policies and public debate.

 

[pugsville]

Did the leading lights of left wing politics ever truly represent the poor?

Were the Montagnards poor? No.
Marx? No.
Lenin & Trotsky? No.
Fabians? Hell no.

It's always been a movement of educated middle class resentment towards the upper class. The working classes (and poor) were only ever a vehicle for their political ambitions. As soon as the poor have become unnecessary to the movement they have been ditched.

The 40 hour week. weekends, long service leave, public hospitals, public education safety regulations were do you think these things came from?